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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    Martijn wrote
    To be honest, I liked neither score much, and for the life of me I can't see why Tyler's score was prefered over Goldsmith's...or the other way around for that matter! In my opinion it's two rather non-descript scores for a pretty poor movie.


    I'm not a fan of Tyler's either. The constant references to Star Trek II were annoying. As for Goldsmith's effort, I too found a lot of annoying things into it but I found it play much better and was far more coherent than Tyler's. Additionally, Goldsmith's "Prepare For Battle/ Victory For Us" beats the pants off anything Tyler wrote in his score.

    As for putting Tyler on the map... I'd say that his score to The Hunted is what put him on the map. Writing a score for William Friedkin is no small feat. But it was because of Frailty that Friedkin showed interest in Tyler's work.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    • CommentAuthormixolydian
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008 edited
    I have to admit that I don't like those action stuff that much too. It is loud and very well produced but also (very) repetitive, special moments in action oriented chord progessions are pretty hard to find. It's often 'rhythm driven' and suits the films for some reasons, but it's not 'scene driven' as Goldsmith's or Williams' action music, which has a lot more to tell. RAMBO FIRST BLOOD and RAMBO IV is an example of this, look what Goldsmith did and compare that to Brians music. But the score from Goldsmith's Rambo is somewhat old and things changes over the time, I could imagine that people actually want to hear that rhythm driven kinda action music. On a side note Yared's Troy were rejected on the unbelieveable fact a test audience disliked the 'old fashioned' music.

    On the other side Brian mentioned in that collider interview that he always running out of time, he just 'have to do'. And for that fact it sounds very very good what Brian and the other rushed composers done in a hurry.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    Martijn wrote
    To be honest, I liked neither score much, and for the life of me I can't see why Tyler's score was prefered over Goldsmith's...or the other way around for that matter! In my opinion it's two rather non-descript scores for a pretty poor movie.


    I disagree a little. I actually think Tyler's is his most straightforwardly enjoyable work (I suspect he was inspired to go the extra mile due to the inevitable Goldsmith comparisons) and Goldsmith's is pretty standard post-1985 stuff for him, but still very enjoyable.

    At the time I suspected the "we needed to rescore the film because it was re-edited and Jerry wasn't available" line was just a euphemism but given how extremely similar the two composers' approaches are, I wonder if it was actually true. It would be very odd to reject a score by a legend and then commission a non-legend to write one which is, to all intents and purposes, almost the same. (The same in approach; Goldsmith's is clearly superior in execution.)
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    Erik Woods wrote


    As for putting Tyler on the map... I'd say that his score to The Hunted is what put him on the map. Writing a score for William Friedkin is no small feat. But it was because of Frailty that Friedkin showed interest in Tyler's work.

    -Erik-


    That and Frailty.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    mixolydian wrote
    I have to admit that I don't like those action stuff that much too. It is loud and very well produced but also (very) repetitive, special moments in action oriented chord progessions are pretty hard to find. It's often 'rhythm driven' and suits the films for some reasons, but it's not 'scene driven' as Goldsmith's or Williams' action music, which has a lot more to tell. RAMBO FIRST BLOOD and RAMBO IV is an example of this, look what Goldsmith did and compare that to Brians music. But the score from Goldsmith's Rambo is somewhat old and things changes over the time, I could imagine that people actually want to hear that rhythm driven kinda action music. On a side note Yared's Troy were rejected on the unbelieveable fact a test audience disliked the 'old fashioned' music.

    On the other side Brian mentioned in that collider interview that he always running out of time, he just 'have to do'. And for that fact it sounds very very good what Brian and the other rushed composers done in a hurry.


    Like the solo guitar vs the riffs of the rhythmic guitar when it comes to Rock and Metal music; everything changes with time.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    Christodoulides wrote
    Erik Woods wrote


    As for putting Tyler on the map... I'd say that his score to The Hunted is what put him on the map. Writing a score for William Friedkin is no small feat. But it was because of Frailty that Friedkin showed interest in Tyler's work.

    -Erik-


    That and Frailty.


    Did I not mention Frailty? wink

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    Oh yeah, my bad shame
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  1. You did, Erik.

    I think there must be one thing that we can't forget when we discuss Brian Tyler's action style.

    THe Zimmer inspirations seem to be obvious when we think of it, we see a certain thematic approach (Eagle Eye is thematically based on an anthem). OK, OK, but we need to see one basic difference in approach.

    Zimmer comes out of a certain inspiration - rock music of the 1980s. We must not forget that film music is kinda not up to date with styles and Hans's music inspired by the likes of Europe or Van Halen (I don't know Yes much, but we can't forget Mancina's influence on the style) got to be very popular in the early nineties.

    Tyler has a similar knack for syncopes and similar rhythmic similarities. But they are somewhat different. Why? Maybe different source of inspiration. It can be easily said that Tyler's action music is somewhat harsher around the edges and not only because of the orchestrational choices and some bigger tendency for dissonance (e.g. the Goldenthalesque parts of Eagle Eye).

    I believe that the basic source is heavier rock than Zimmer's. Somewhat his rhythmic sensibilities remind me of stuff like Metallica. What do you think of that? Of course Zimmer is an important influence on Tyler - some dramatic methods, even thematic style at times (I think Tyler's Rambo theme is even more Zimmerish than Eagle Eye's theme), but the action music is inspired by the more modern hard rock music. That's what just came to me.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    Yeah, it's very possible (which seems like a very likely scenario to me) that while Zimmer grew up with the 70's and early 80's rock and transferred that to his music, Tyler was brought up with 90's and early 00's metal music which then fused into his - admittedly far more complex and orchestral in core way of writing, resulting in what we hear today. Yes, Tyler might carry the philosophy behind Zimmer's usage and procession of dramatic chord writing for strings, but his action writing is largely departed from that style.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    It just seems like Tyler's strumming on a guitar and transposing that to a sheet of music. Just listen to Tyler's action music. Can't say that turned me on.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  2. Zimmer and Tyler have a very similar knack for e.g. syncopes in action. While the bass parts are different from Zimmer whatsoever except a syncope here and there, the viola writing may get similar.

    Also an interesting experience would be perfectly imagining Eagle Eye and Eagle Eye Main Title as heavy metal pieces orchestrated by the likes of Elhai or even Kamen. While Tyler's ostinati are different from Zimmer's, their knack for them may come from the same source too.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  3. Erik Woods wrote
    It just seems like Tyler's strumming on a guitar and transposing that to a sheet of music. Just listen to Tyler's action music. Can't say that turned me on.

    -Erik-


    That's a bit harsh, the orchestration are much more intelligent than that, admittedly, especially in Eagle Eye which is my favorite Tyler score, I think!
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    It just seems like Tyler's strumming on a guitar and transposing that to a sheet of music. Just listen to Tyler's action music. Can't say that turned me on.

    -Erik-


    That's a bit harsh, the orchestration are much more intelligent than that, admittedly, especially in Eagle Eye which is my favorite Tyler score, I think!


    Yeah, Erik how would you describe IRON MAN and that stuff if you describe as such Tyler's writing which is - either some like it or not, realistically one of the most complex and well-arranged modern writings in film music of the younger generation out there today, when it comes to Hollywood.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  4. Hmm, I think technically-wise I prefer Beltrami and Giacchino for sure.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    Christodoulides wrote
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    It just seems like Tyler's strumming on a guitar and transposing that to a sheet of music. Just listen to Tyler's action music. Can't say that turned me on.

    -Erik-


    That's a bit harsh, the orchestration are much more intelligent than that, admittedly, especially in Eagle Eye which is my favorite Tyler score, I think!


    Yeah, Erik how would you describe IRON MAN and that stuff if you describe as such Tyler's writing which is - either some like it or not, realistically one of the most complex and well-arranged modern writings in film music of the younger generation out there today, when it comes to Hollywood.


    I think that's taking things a bit too far the other way! His music may entertain or not depending on your views, but saying it's very complex doesn't seem to reflect what I can hear!
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008 edited
    Christodoulides wrote

    Yeah, Erik how would you describe IRON MAN


    IRON MAN was shit! Not THE shit but pure shit!

    Christodoulides wrote
    and that stuff if you describe as such Tyler's writing which is - either some like it or not, realistically one of the most complex and well-arranged modern writings in film music of the younger generation out there today, when it comes to Hollywood.


    Say what? rolleyes

    What I was saying is that his action rhythms have that heavy rock and roll strumming sound to it. Also, his chord progression is very similar to something out of rock music. I didn't mean to say Tyler was pulling a Santaolla.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Hmm, I think technically-wise I prefer Beltrami and Giacchino for sure.


    Well, yeah... smile

    Tyler isn't the person you go to for great themes. He's the composer who you go to when you just want neverending pounding percussion, electric guitars and synths. I'm not complaining! punk
  5. I can't see much of Tyler's complexity melody-wise, he's rather straightforward and simple (if not simplistic) here, which adds to appeal for the younger generation of listeners (though some Zimmer themes are somewhat more complex than Tyler's admittedly) and the harmony is in thematic material rather simplistic too (often four repeated chords, like the Rambo theme).

    Tyler's complexity lies in the rhythm and his atonal abilities, shown in Eagle Eye better than in AVP: R. Yes, I still don't like that one.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    Anthony wrote
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Hmm, I think technically-wise I prefer Beltrami and Giacchino for sure.


    Well, yeah... smile

    Tyler isn't the person you go to for great themes. He's the composer who you go to when you just want neverending pounding percussion, electric guitars and synths. I'm not complaining! punk


    Good point... and there is a role for composers like that out there. I just don't find his most recent efforts... and man, that's dating back to 2004... that interesting! I haven't heard anything that could rival the likes of Darkness Falls, Frailty, The Hunted, Terror Tract... scores that had me standing up in awe and seeing great potential. Again, he is still young and I'm sure one day he will get out of this funk and right something truly stunning!

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  6. Also technically I prefer Davis, but obviously, Davis is older than the generation we're talking about.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    Erik Woods wrote
    Anthony wrote
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Hmm, I think technically-wise I prefer Beltrami and Giacchino for sure.


    Well, yeah... smile

    Tyler isn't the person you go to for great themes. He's the composer who you go to when you just want neverending pounding percussion, electric guitars and synths. I'm not complaining! punk


    Good point... and there is a role for composers like that out there. I just don't find his most recent efforts... and man, that's dating back to 2004... that interesting! I haven't heard anything that could rival the likes of Darkness Falls, Frailty, The Hunted, Terror Tract... scores that had me standing up in awe and seeing great potential. Again, he is still young and I'm sure one day he will get out of this funk and right something truly stunning!

    -Erik-


    Interesting. All the scores you mentioned I'm not a fan of, and I've switched on to his post-2004 scores!
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Tyler's complexity lies in the rhythm and his atonal abilities, shown in Eagle Eye better than in AVP: R. Yes, I still don't like that one.


    And arrangements. Very dense stuff.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  7. Yes, but those arrangements do emphasize rhythm rather than color. They are very brutal, look at the fast trumpet motifs, brass in general. It's dense, but still more rhythmic, so my point stands, I guess smile
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    Southall wrote
    Christodoulides wrote
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    It just seems like Tyler's strumming on a guitar and transposing that to a sheet of music. Just listen to Tyler's action music. Can't say that turned me on.

    -Erik-


    That's a bit harsh, the orchestration are much more intelligent than that, admittedly, especially in Eagle Eye which is my favorite Tyler score, I think!


    Yeah, Erik how would you describe IRON MAN and that stuff if you describe as such Tyler's writing which is - either some like it or not, realistically one of the most complex and well-arranged modern writings in film music of the younger generation out there today, when it comes to Hollywood.


    I think that's taking things a bit too far the other way! His music may entertain or not depending on your views, but saying it's very complex doesn't seem to reflect what I can hear!


    When most of the younger (and i stress "younger") hollywood composers out there today write in RC mode and imitations at best, Tyler is easily above all that. Then again there's also the Giacchino's of the world so, yeah;
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  8. There is also Marco Beltrami and few slightly older composers (or much older), though often neglected - Shearmur, Don Davis...
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    Erik Woods wrote
    Anthony wrote
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Hmm, I think technically-wise I prefer Beltrami and Giacchino for sure.


    Well, yeah... smile

    Tyler isn't the person you go to for great themes. He's the composer who you go to when you just want neverending pounding percussion, electric guitars and synths. I'm not complaining! punk


    Good point... and there is a role for composers like that out there. I just don't find his most recent efforts... and man, that's dating back to 2004... that interesting! I haven't heard anything that could rival the likes of Darkness Falls, Frailty, The Hunted, Terror Tract... scores that had me standing up in awe and seeing great potential. Again, he is still young and I'm sure one day he will get out of this funk and right something truly stunning!

    -Erik-


    You have a point there but i think was made him deviate from that style currently is the nature of the assignments he's getting the last 4-5 years and of course the demands of the directors he's working with, if you see the WAR scoring session videos and all you'll see what i am talking about. But he must be careful not to trap himself in all this.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    PawelStroinski wrote
    There is also Marco Beltrami and few slightly older composers (or much older), though often neglected - Shearmur, Don Davis...


    Agree, there are always exceptions. But they're as you say neglected. I am talking about the active members of the area, out of which Tyler is currently one of them most active.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    Christodoulides wrote
    You have a point there but i think was made him deviate from that style currently is the nature of the assignments he's getting the last 4-5 years and of course the demands of the directors he's working with, if you see the WAR scoring session videos and all you'll see what i am talking about. But he must be careful not to trap himself in all this.


    Aren't the War sessions the ones where the orchestra accidentally played music from the Bourne scores?

    I get your point about him being a cut above RC composers in terms of complexity. There is a surface-level similarity to Zimmer (sometimes more than surface-level, when he chooses to be "inspired" by a theme or two) but as you and Pawel have pointed out, there is a density there which you wouldn't get with an RC score.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    Christodoulides wrote
    But he must be careful not to trap himself in all this.


    There's the key right there. But does he have the flexibility to do that? Is he comfortable in saying no to a project because it might pigeon hole him? Or maybe he just flat out loves to work on these sort of films and deliver what he does.

    Who knows.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2008
    Erik Woods wrote
    Christodoulides wrote
    But he must be careful not to trap himself in all this.


    There's the key right there. But does he have the flexibility to do that? Is he comfortable in saying no to a project because it might pigeon hole him? Or maybe he just flat out loves to work on these sort of films and deliver what he does.

    Who knows.

    -Erik-


    He certainly has the ability and his pre-2004 scores have proven it. But i agree with you but the flexibility to avoid all that might be close to extinction nowadays.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.