BRIAN TYLER

I'm so good at this game. The Mask of Zorro. Not so much a rip off but temp love. And Tyler loves Horner especially Zorro's love theme.

-Erik-

1. This recognizable sound if existent is rather vague. And even recently, when I thought that one motif is pure Tyler in AVP: R it actually ended up to be a Predator reference.

2. It does, though in the middle it goes into Pearl Harbor, actually. I don't agree track 3 sounds like Zimmer though. The first overture is Legends of the Fall, though it's Legends of the Fall (track theme) combined with The Ludlows theme in mix. Yes, changed enough not to warrant a lawsuit.

3. Depends on the source and the way it is referred. Case in point was the whole Holstian controversy behind Gladiator. Zimmer didn't admit the rip for a long time and instead of making an elaborate explanation that the Mars quotes are about Mars being the Roman god of war he went like "Oh, sorry. Accident." I find the whole lawsuit thing rather ridiculous then. When a composer takes a *pattern* from others and gives it his own personality or even uses a motif in a referential way, like, in AVP: R the Horner two note motif from Aliens in Coprocloakia, it makes more sense. If he takes few pages from other score and calls it his, just making a little correction, so they can't sue it is rather unfair. If 190th composer uses the Holstian snare rhythm to sound militaristic I don't think it's particularly intelligent anymore. That's not something I have against Tyler in particular. Just people GET OVER that figure!

Gladiator, which I like for other reasons, isn't particularly intelligent in its classical inspirations, but look at Hannibal. That's the epitome of an intelligent referential work *still* sounding like its composer, if only because of preferred harmony and arrangements. The Thin Red Line (though yes, Zimmer had much more time) is referential, not ripping - subtle reference to Lacrimosa here and there, Journey to the Line being a reworking of the Barber Adagio for Strings pattern, but not a rewrite of the work (which Zimmer managed to do few times in Tears of the Sun). I will make a short anti-Williams rant here with his shameless Tchaikovsky rip in Home Alone. Holiday Flight is just a rewrite of one Nutcracker piece. And *nobody* criticizes that. Why?

4. Depends on what it is. Holstian rhythmic figure is something being a part of the film score musical language, probably because of The Planets' popularity. Legends of the Fall is a very popular score and it's hard to write something *completely* original in that vein, especially if Horner is very much referencing Dances with Wolves. Coplandesque writing in Hollywood - depends. Horner and Goldsmith are often rather shameless (Fanfare for the Common Man in Clear and Present Danger and Air Force One respectively), though Williams chooses the more subtle world of Lincoln's Portrait. I think the proof lies there. People reworking MV style also are easy to prove. Horner's voice is very strong and Tyler is admittedly a fan of Horner's, so much is spoken of Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan.

That's how it looks in my book.

You honestly say that you listen to partition the first thing that pops up is ZORRO?


I'm just not hearing it....

Yyyyyyyyup!

-Erik-

What TJ and Alan say about Tyler (though I don't think I hear it myself) is what I always think these days when I read about Horner's copying - no matter who he's being accused of copying (and often those accusations have a great deal of foundation), he always somehow manages to sound like nobody other than Horner!

No Kidding! You think that seriously?



I asked James before but i guess he's preparing his review or something.

Haha. Master of diplomation

I heard some bits from Star Trek II/III. I figured it was something Horner reused in Aliens or something. A lot of Aliens and Predator in this score...but thats as it should be. If Rambo doesn't sound like Goldsmith or at the least incorporate his themes, I'll be a bit disappointed.

Now I think I got the source of my crunch with Brian Tyler's music. I'm most annoyed by his lack of originality. I stated a lot of times, rather harshly, that he might even *like* doing temp-track. That actually might be the case if we see that he is as passioned a composer, as Demetris says he is. Being such a film score nerd, reworking his own masters may be something he might be honored of doing and thus he may not let his own musical personality prevail.

His biggest influence seems to be James Horner. Not so sure about Mask of Zorro in Partition, but it's definitely present in Lady Claier and Marek from Timeline. Horner is also very evident in Annapolis particularly with Turning Point being a typical James Horner dramatic cue even in its expression, not to mention orchestration and even construction. Tyler manages even to get a typical Hornerish snare rip in few cues. Not very much amazed. Greatest Game Ever Played is overtalked here with his Legends of the Fall rip-off.

Another composer of big influence is Hans Zimmer and the MV gang, for this post's purposes including Trevor Rabin. This is pretty evident in Children of Dune (Inama Mushif being a Now We Are Free wannabe), Paparazzi has some MV-like cues, Annapolis has a very Zimmerish subtheme, Greatest Game Ever Played features a Pearl Harbor rip for a while and Tokyo Drift is pretty much a Trevor Rabin score that was much better orchestrated. When it comes to composers ever connected with MV, I should say of John Powell in War and in one piece in Timeline, which sounds pretty much like the Bourne theme.

Do I really look for these influences? No, there comes the problem. I don't. They just jump in randomly. I immediately recall he influences when listening to his scores. Something that sadly hurts especially in context of composers of today. This is why I think he doesn't have much of his own compositional identity. He does repeat some motifs here and there, some rhythmic ideas. And he tends to base his themes on four chords. That's all I can say about Brian Tyler's style after hearing (alphabetically speaking): Annapolis, AVP: R, Children of Dune, Darkness Falls, Frailty promo, Paparazzi, Partition, The Fast and the Furious: Tokyo Drift, The Hunted, Timeline promo and War. I think that's pretty much to be able to define a composer's style. With The Greatest Game Ever Played I still don't listen to more than the theme that just makes me laugh because of how bad the rip-off is.

Where does the problem lie? First, Tyler's personality as a composer may be of importance here. Who knows if the rips are demanded? Maybe he takes it *as granted* that each time he gets a temp-track he must rip it? THomas Newman will never sound like Williams, Goldsmith or Horner. Tyler will get us another Greatest Game. This makes me wonder about his compositional talent too. Aside from the orchestrators, mind you - he works with Robert Elhai, who always brings on some of Goldenthalian orchestrations to scores he works on, OK, maybe except Badelt's Poseidon. But that's Klaus Badelt's action score and I wonder if Elhai didn't do it because he needed to pay off some debts or what. That might have influenced AVP: R a lot. But what are his themes? Greatest Game and Children of Dune, well, good themes, but not too original. Neela's theme from Tokyo Drift (probably Neela's Drift is my favorite Tyler cue) does have Rabin/MV sensibilities. AVP: R's themes aren't particularly amazing and twist on Goldenthal and Horner's themes (Horner in Aliens of course). Partition is his prettiest theme, but it somehow lacks something. I can't say what.

Maybe the performance. I see his scores being performed in a rather lackluster way. By the numbers, I would say. Some composers manage to get amazing performances, most recently (not conducting himself though) Zimmer did (for his standards) wonders with PotC 3. Horner overworks, but he is still a very good conductor. All the masters are. Tyler lacks a pinch, something that'd make his performances pitch perfect. Technically they are very good, but I somehow lack a bigger punch that makes me wonder what would happen had deceased Goldsmith conducted AVP: R. Master of aggression. Tyler is just aggressive. Not to mention that his scoring methods are not very intelligent, I would say. He just goes in. No particularly brilliant ideas, which happen to (speaking of the same generation) Giacchino.

That is my opinion on Brian Tyler, I will yet give chance to the Constantine promo and I hope that Rambo won't disappoint me.

I won't go into the same ol' Tyler plagiarism thingy ever again 'cause it's dead-beaten and (proved) tiring for the other participants of the forum; so give that a rest.

But as for the performances being aggressive and by the numbers, i couldn't disagree more; I've had the chance (and at cases, luck) of watching various orchestral performances through these years as a musicologist and several of them were film music-related. Rarely do i come across sessions which are at the top level of professionalism coupled with absolute energetic FUN that are the Tyler sessions, something which is transmitted to his scores as well. I am deeply stumped as to where the fudge you here by the numbers' coldness in Tyler's scores. The man has to have one of the most impressive sounds and overall timbres amidst the younger composers working today, no need to prove that.

Go to http://briantyler.com/audio.html ; Right column, "VIDEOS". Walk through all that and see all the videos, carefully. Then we can talk

Hey! Welcome Krishna! Glad to see you liked the score, i absolutely loved it; my review coming soon.

Oh and talking about the Brian Tyler gang, http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=4310054791

Oh, and see this link. Brian sent it to me:

ALIEN VS PREDATOR : REQUIEM [RECORDING SESSIONS VIDEO]


There's a high school present in the recordings, apparently. Watch the video throughout.


http://www.entermusic.org/

Wow, that is some cool highschool trip

Love it indeed how some really think it's cool... and unbelievable that some seem to be really bored

Hi Krish!

Nice video, thanks Demetris.
Very funny the girl that keeps the rythm of the cue with her head. She´s really enjoting the experience. A new movie music fan?