BRIAN TYLER

All those arguments presented in the last page seem strictly based on personal taste and not validated through any musical basis or argument beyond personal preferences whatsoever. What if you don't like him or his music, at all? That doesn't in fact prove that AVP:R is not a hell of a beast, a damn fun and damn energetic ride, a VERY good score, at all; especially since it was composed to accompany such a horrible piece of crap! Don't people even think a bit nowadays?

But how something so derivative can be an "energetic ride"? For me an "energetic ride" is when something breaks standarts or uses things that are already made in a spectacular and interresting way.

So, by that description, you must like.......hmmm, let's see......roughly one score each year?

I mean come on, "spectacular" and "interesting" is something that perfectly describes what i (and many other people i am sure) DO feel when playing loud the mind-blowing 7 minute mayhem of "Decimation Proclamation". It makes me shiver with its unstoppable energy, its enormous and powerful percussion section, the dense arrangements and clever use of clusters, the firmly driving rhythms, its intensity, its vigor, all enough to warrant a highly intense emotional experience for me and a hell of a thrilling rush of adrenaline through each and every listen. What serious arguments do you have besides "Brian Tyler can't write a single note and i sooo not like him", "avp:r is this and that 'cause i say so", "avp:r is shit" and so on?

What's interresting in the harmonic procession, in rhythms, motifs and structure? All this things are average and we can often come them across in movie music in much better edition.

Why does something have to be original in order for it to be energetic? That seems like an odd qualifier.

Hmmm....if the score of AVP2 does something is breaking standards making it spectacular and interesting. As I´ve said many times during the past weeks the easy way of approaching the score would have been to write a standard horror / action score: something generic, unsubstantial, only to add some noise to the film. Tyler, on the other hand, decided to join the party and, even knowing that the score would be almost unlistenable due to the constant sound effetcs of the film, has written an action packed score, full of references to the previous composers but with his style everywhere (´cause Tyler DOES have a style), "gifting" us with a BIG ride full of percussion, brass and fastest string progressions ever.

The most original score of the year? I don´t think so (but for a film like AVP2, yes), but please name one or two scores of this 2007 (or 2006) in which, in your opinion, any standard is broken. Of course your opinion is as respectful as any other (if you don´t like it, you don´t like it, no more to say) but I´m not convinced by your aguments against it. One more time: we are dealing with AVP2, a piece of crap from minute one ´til the end. So Tyler has provided FAR more (LUCKY US!) this film deserved.

My point is it would have been easier (and faster) to approach it in a different way (I mean with less effort and "inspiration"), but you´re right, I think he has written what he thinks is the best score possible for the film. If this is the case, which I´m pretty sure of, then for me he has succeeded.

Hehe...touché .
But Hans broke this standard a looooooooong time ago.

Ups. Sorry. No "Gods and Generals" My fault.

Alright... you were just using the wrong word then. You have to admit that AVP R contains a lot of energy. I think that's a indisputable fact. But since you have your standards, which is looking for something complete original (so you must hate 99% of all film music written) then when you hear something like AVP R, which uses material and ideas from the other films in the series (I don't see the problem here) then you are completely turned off.

-Erik-

I must agree with Andrzej here. The Brian Tylerisms were done before and better. Frailty is all about repeating cliche chord progressions heard in most of orchestral thrillers, the action music does feature Zimmerish rhythms above Goldsmithian brass that is loud for the sake of being loud. There is a rhythm I would call his, but he's been repeating it since like Darkness Falls without much evolution. And the motif that is used in AVP: R with this rhythm is... the Silvestri theme.

Voice or not voice. The question is how strong is a composer voice. Whereas I can find Tyler in basic themes (I definitely find it in the Rambo chord progressions, though I'm afraid the rest of the suite is just reworking It's a Long Road and it's Tyler's best material possibly about 80% because of the quality of the original theme, yes I may be harsh), based on simple four-chord progressions. I can find him in pop rhythm in Fast and Furious: Tokyo Drift's Neela Drifts. But really that's not much.

Influences, cheap copies, homages. I agree with Andrzej that AVP: R fails as a homage. And I think he may be right Tyler fails, because he himself has not enough to show in the score, because he picked to just refer rather than intelligently put the references into completely his material. The only piece that I find a good homage is Coprocloakia. There is simply too little own invention. I don't care and never cared about the film. I look at the album and that's what I see.

The review was rather harsh on Tyler himself, I must agree with the board here. Though as I said, he isn't very much respected in Polish score review community. Myself, I appreciate his organic qualities, the fact that he works with orchestras, but sadly I can't call him one of the greats, because of a very weak (in terms of general strength, not quality) voice. You have to dig deeply in to get the TYLER sound and frankly, I don't think his scores deserve such in-depth analyses. Myself, I tried and ended up where I ended up. I wonder what Rambo will be. And I am afraid of getting more of the same. Quality-wise he is a decent composer, though there are dozens better working today. And the reason behind my attacks on his music is the fact that you seem to forget about them. AVP: R could have been a better score, in terms of structure, harmonic progressions, everything. What we have is an unoriginal, monotonous (though energetic, just too little respite here, had there been more "Striptease" material, the score would have benefitted a lot as an album, by monotony I mean the fact that, as Andrzej noticed perfectly well, everything sounds the same) piece, which is sadly loud for the sake of being loud rather than having a very careful construction. And don't tell me that it's AVP: R which is a crappy film. That's a problem I have generally with Tyler's action music. He just goes loud, where some refining, maybe slightly more intelligence put into the orchestration (not that I find Tyler a stupid or something, the orchestrations could have been smarter, look at Goldsmith, JNH, Williams, Giacchino, Beltrami, even if I don't really like him much, Arnold).

So you did. I must have missed it!



-Erik-

Demetris, I stated that AVP fails as a homage not because of energy or something. There is not enough "own" material there for me to be a homage rather than reworking of the series. As I said the moment I found the most Tyleresque ended up to be Silvestri's Predator theme.

I think the problem lies somewhere else, really. I've been wondering why Tyler is so adored by the community. We in Poland really aren't very far from calling him simply a hack. Except from my problems with the strength of his style I have some others, myself, though IMHO he's maybe not a hack, but I don't think he deserves all the assignments he gets. One wonders about composers like Carter Burwell on some action (YES! just for the sake of his very strong style - that would be peculiar, even if he failed) projects.

I have two major problems. First is the structure. Cool, loud, orchestral, ballsy. But where is the refinement? Don't talk about the movies - Goldsmith made very refined technically scores for crap movies. Tyler just writes the whole orchestra in and is rather messy, where Thor agreed with me. There is writing for an orchestra and writing for an orchestra, sorry guys, but I can't compare Tyler's orchestral writing even to Beltrami. I am not a fan of Beltrami myself, but I know he has a very discernible style and Hellboy was great (wouldn't call it a masterpiece like Demetris, but I did find it great), but his writing is just more refined, I believe. I won't go with Giacchino because for some reason Demetris finds comparisons between Giacchino and Tyler unfair, even if the comparison is for the sake of the same generation.

Second thing is performance. OK, proffessional. Technically amazing, pulls the right stops. But there is nothing really compelling to his orchestral performances, sorry. Partition didn't work for me much. He is good in restraint - I liked the theme in Paparazzi, even if very Zimmerish, because of that restraint. But comparing the unfortunate Greatest Game Ever Played to Horner's Legends of the Fall only in the performance aspect, Tyler falls very shortly, sorry. Even recent Zimmer has very good performances, giving it a touch I find most of the composers lack, let me give you only the examples of Spanglish, Da Vinci Code and Pirates of the Caribbean 3. And he even doesn't conduct himself! Giacchino - the same (Lost strings). Also the best composers have that. Tyler is very by the numbers, got the professional touch, but to me there is a fine line between craft and art and Tyler has failed to crossed it yet.

I am harsh, etc. But I try to make it even really. I find Tyler yet to be a rather decent to slightly above average composer. You seem to praise him like he was another Goldsmith or what. The thing is that he is not. And I will state that everytime I have the opportunity to do so. Sorry guys, but me and many of my friends rather fail to see the Tyler greatness. The fact that he can write for orchestra doesn't do anything for me, because it's still craft. I dare to ask about the art.

That’s right! Thank you, Pawel! There’s a big difference between craft and art. When blacksmith makes everyday exactly the same horseshoe, which construction is entirely based on a scheme created by his father, is it a work of art? Music can’t be sticking in one place all the time. It must develop. I think you should wake up from the dream of Golden Age music and try to go farther.