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    •  
      CommentAuthorJim Ware
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2012 edited
    But the album producer has already done their job and deemed it appropriate to release a 2CD set (with appropriate nips and tucks to improve the listening experience). spin
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2012 edited
    Jim Ware wrote
    But the album producer has already done their job and deemed it appropriate to release a 2CD set (with appropriate nips and tucks to improve the listening experience). spin


    True, but judging by the presentation available on Empire, they haven't done a very good job. Just because I always "demand" an album producer to present their version instead of the consumers, doesn't mean I always have to like said presentation. Besides, I have a feeling that this particular presentation is a little TOO informed of the C&C plague -- perhaps because of all those extended editions of the LOTR music.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBregje
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2012 edited
    Jim wrote:
    But the album producer has already done their job and deemed it appropriate to release a 2CD set (with appropriate nips and tucks to improve the listening experience). dizzy


    Album producers... what do they know? wink

    What are nips and tucks? Sounds like something for the snacks topic.
    Is this a rare limited release picknick box set?

    tongue
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2012
    Obviously you've partaken of the port early this evening, Bregje. wink
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  1. Thor wrote
    Bregje wrote
    There will be a 50-minutes version!

    In my iTunes playlist. It will be named "The best of The Hobbit". wink


    I dread I have to do that too, although 'pretending to be a record producer' goes against every fibre in my body.

    You could use record producer Bregje's selection?
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2012 edited
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    Thor wrote
    Bregje wrote
    There will be a 50-minutes version!

    In my iTunes playlist. It will be named "The best of The Hobbit". wink


    I dread I have to do that too, although 'pretending to be a record producer' goes against every fibre in my body.

    You could use record producer Bregje's selection?


    If she'd been a PROFESSIONAL album producer, I just might have. Unless she has a hidden CV I don't know about, though, I'm guessing she's about as qualified as myself, fiddling around with nice cues in a random order. dizzy
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2012
    Well maybe. But she's far cuter.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2012
    True.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    Thor wrote
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    Thor wrote
    Bregje wrote
    There will be a 50-minutes version!

    In my iTunes playlist. It will be named "The best of The Hobbit". wink


    I dread I have to do that too, although 'pretending to be a record producer' goes against every fibre in my body.

    You could use record producer Bregje's selection?


    If she'd been a PROFESSIONAL album producer, I just might have. Unless she has a hidden CV I don't know about, though, I'm guessing she's about as qualified as myself, fiddling around with nice cues in a random order. dizzy


    Not in random order... that's what shuffle is for. You don't have to be a professional to create a satisfying listening experience. And yes, I'm bring this up again because I'm truly sick and tired of you thinking that people who don't get paid to do this can't create a solid 40-50 minute album from something like the complete recordings of The Lord of the Rings.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  2. Erik, don't you regularly create satisfying listening experiences with the suites you regularly produce?
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    Yes, and I'm damn good at it, too!

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012 edited
    Erik Woods wrote
    You don't have to be a professional to create a satisfying listening experience. And yes, I'm bring this up again because I'm truly sick and tired of you thinking that people who don't get paid to do this can't create a solid 40-50 minute album from something like the complete recordings of The Lord of the Rings.


    Hear hear.
    In fact, with modern digital editing facilities available for pretty much everyone at pretty much no cost, I would even go so far as to say that many amateurs -several being regulars on this very forum, I may add!- do an excellent job of not only sequencing but indeed editing (commercial) soundtracks to such an extent that it becomes a far better and coherent (and shorter!) listen!
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012 edited
    Of course I can create a 40-50 minute album. Hell, I've made plenty of playlists over the years (cassette tapes, iTunes lists, you name it). But can I make anything even CLOSE to a professionally designed album, created out of all the source material with a coherent listening experience in mind? Heck, no. Not in a million years. Nor is it my job.

    In the case of the new HOBBIT, though, it seems I have to 'bite the sour apple', as we say over here, and go for the crisis solution -- selection of cues I like in a more or less random order. Either that or don't get it at all. Listening to the 2CD set as is was torture, despite some good moments.

    I'm kinda offended by the soundtrack producers that there wasn't a shorter, more coherent release as an alternative, actually. One thing is that the specialty labels subscribe to the C&C; it's when it's becoming commonplace in the commercial releases as well that I REALLY start to worry for my continued interest in this crazy thing.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    Thor wrote
    Of course I can create a 40-50 minute album. Hell, I've made plenty of playlists over the years (cassette tapes, iTunes lists, you name it). But can I make anything even CLOSE to a professionally designed album, created out of all the source material with a coherent listening experience in mind? Heck, no. Not in a million years. Nor is it my job.


    Too bad for you because I could! Easily!

    Thor wrote
    In the case of the new HOBBIT, though, it seems I have to 'bite the sour apple', as we say over here, and go for the crisis solution -- selection of cues I like in a more or less random order. Either that or don't get it at all. Listening to the 2CD set as is was torture, despite some good moments.


    Thor - I think you are smarter then that. Rip the album into iTunes. Listen to it. If you like a particular track put it in a playlist folder. Hopefully by the time you are done your one and only listen of the 2CD set you will have found the tracks that you like and placed them into that "Best of The Hobbitt" playlist. Now you can fiddle around with that playlist, re-order tracks to your preference, etc. It's not that hard! My God you make it sound like the worst thing you've ever done. "I have to actually listen to a film music album?" Oooooooh nooooooooooo!

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  3. Thor wrote
    Listening to the 2CD set as is was torture...

    If you think that of The Hobbit - An Unexpected Journey then you certainly don't want to listen to the 140 minutes of Jack Wall's Call of Duty: Black Ops II!
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012 edited
    Thor wrote
    I'm kinda offended by the soundtrack producers that there wasn't a shorter, more coherent release as an alternative, actually. One thing is that the specialty labels subscribe to the C&C; it's when it's becoming commonplace in the commercial releases as well that I REALLY start to worry for my continued interest in this crazy thing.


    Offended? This is how Howard Shore wants his music presented. He's the professional producer. The professional musician. The professional composer.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    Erik Woods wrote
    Too bad for you because I could! Easily!


    Well, that's good for you, I guess.

    Thor wrote
    Thor - I think you are smarter then that. Rip the album into iTunes. Listen to it. If you like a particular track put it in a playlist folder. Hopefully by the time you are done your one and only listen of the 2CD set you will have found the tracks that you like and placed them into that "Best of The Hobbitt" playlist. Now you can fiddle around with that playlist, re-order tracks to your preference, etc. It's not that hard! My God you make it sound like the worst thing you've ever done. "I have to actually listen to a film music album?" Oooooooh nooooooooooo!


    Again:

    a) it's not my job to be a record producer when I buy a CD. The presentation of the music is part of the package I'm buying. That's not laziness, that's just consumer policy. Otherwise it would be like buying a car in pieces and asking the consumer to put it together yourself.

    b) the best I could do on my own in a crisis scenario like this -- if I have the time and energy -- is a playlist of favourite cues in an order that perhaps mixes the action cues with the slow cues or something. I could never -- EVER -- sit with all the raw material in front of me and create a fluid, suite-like presentation that is its own narrative, perhaps even with tracks segueing in and out of each other, cutting certain tracks midway for smoother segues into another etc. If I could, I would have been a composer or an album producer.
    I am extremely serious.
  4. I've started a new topic that may be better for keeping this discussion going?
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    Erik Woods wrote
    Thor wrote
    I'm kinda offended by the soundtrack producers that there wasn't a shorter, more coherent release as an alternative, actually. One thing is that the specialty labels subscribe to the C&C; it's when it's becoming commonplace in the commercial releases as well that I REALLY start to worry for my continued interest in this crazy thing.


    Offended? This is how Howard Shore wants his music presented. He's the professional producer. The professional musician. The professional composer.

    -Erik-


    He is, and in this particular case I disagree with him. I also think he may be influenced by the whole 'extended LOTR' albums thingie and the success of that. There's more C&C ideology at work here than Shore really cutting it to the bone, listening experience-wise.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012 edited
    Thor wrote
    a) it's not my job to be a record producer when I buy a CD..


    I get that but don't put down people who make an effort to create their own edits and might be willing to share them with you to help you in your "crisis situation." If you are a little more openminded you might actually hear something you like and God forbid works for YOU!

    Thor wrote
    The presentation of the music is part of the package I'm buying. That's not laziness, that's just consumer policy. Otherwise it would be like buying a car in pieces and asking the consumer to put it together yourself.


    That's analogy doens't work. BTW, there's a lot of people and I mean a lot of people who like to build cars from scratch!

    Thor wrote
    b) the best I could do on my own in a crisis scenario like this -- if I have the time and energy -- is a playlist of favourite cues in an order that perhaps mixes the action cues with the slow cues or something. I could never -- EVER -- sit with all the raw material in front of me and create a fluid, suite-like presentation that is its own narrative, perhaps even with tracks segueing in and out of each other, cutting certain tracks midway for smoother segues into another etc. If I could, I would have been a composer or an album producer.


    Crisis scenario. lol I love the wording!

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    Thor wrote
    He is, and in this particular case I disagree with him. I also think he may be influenced by the whole 'extended LOTR' albums thingie and the success of that. There's more C&C ideology at work here than Shore really cutting it to the bone, listening experience-wise.


    Maybe the 1 hour 47 minute version is the best listening experience containing many cuts, segues, crossfades, etc for the ultimate listening experience. But it's just not good enough even if the composer puts in the effort.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    Erik Woods wrote
    Thor wrote
    a) it's not my job to be a record producer when I buy a CD. The presentation of the music is part of the package I'm buying. That's not laziness, that's just consumer policy. Otherwise it would be like buying a car in pieces and asking the consumer to put it together yourself.


    That's analogy doens't work. BTW, there's a lot of people and I mean a lot of people who like to build cars from scratch!


    I would hazard a wild guess that most of us wouldn't. Or couldn't.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012 edited
    Erik Woods wrote
    Thor wrote
    He is, and in this particular case I disagree with him. I also think he may be influenced by the whole 'extended LOTR' albums thingie and the success of that. There's more C&C ideology at work here than Shore really cutting it to the bone, listening experience-wise.


    Maybe the 1 hour 47 minute version is the best listening experience containing many cuts, segues, crossfades, etc for the ultimate listening experience. But it's just not good enough even if the composer puts in the effort.

    -Erik-


    My suspicion is that the regular HOBBIT release was informed MORE (although not exclusively) by a C&C ideology than the previous commercial LOTR albums were, especially after the success of the extended editions. It would be interesting to hear Shore's own thoughts on that.

    In either case, I disagree with his presentation in this case. Having the composer produce the album doesn't always guarantee a good album, for a variety of different reasons. But I will always defend their right to present it whichever way they want.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    Thor wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Thor wrote
    a) it's not my job to be a record producer when I buy a CD. The presentation of the music is part of the package I'm buying. That's not laziness, that's just consumer policy. Otherwise it would be like buying a car in pieces and asking the consumer to put it together yourself.


    That's analogy doens't work. BTW, there's a lot of people and I mean a lot of people who like to build cars from scratch!


    I would hazard a wild guess that most of us wouldn't. Or couldn't.


    Do you know how many people build their own hot rods, for instance. Yeah, there's a lot more then you think!

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    Thor wrote
    In either case, I disagree with his presentation in this case. Having the composer produce the album doesn't always guarantee a good album, for a variety of different reasons.


    But he's the professional remember!

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    Erik Woods wrote
    Thor wrote
    In either case, I disagree with his presentation in this case. Having the composer produce the album doesn't always guarantee a good album, for a variety of different reasons.


    But he's the professional remember!

    -Erik-


    Doesn't matter. I still disagree with his choices in this case.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    lol

    Love it!

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    Too many pposts for me to read through but surely it's easy, listen to the score and condense it into your favourite tracks, simple!
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012 edited
    Well, I'm with Thor, I find it strange as well. If you've already decided to release 2 versions of the score, why not make it 'regular' and 'large' instead of 'large' and 'slightly larger'? Casual listeners (broad audience) would be content with having the whole listening experience on 1 CD, and if that is not enough for you, you just get the 2CD version. Everyone happy.

    Also: WHY repeat the discussion> It is CLEAR you two have different opinions and won't convince the other of your own.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    Thor wrote
    Listening to the 2CD set as is was torture...

    If you think that of The Hobbit - An Unexpected Journey then you certainly don't want to listen to the 140 minutes of Jack Wall's Call of Duty: Black Ops II!


    I am not sure anyone wants to listen to either 5 minutes of the latter? wink
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.