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      CommentAuthorBregje
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    I'm on my second listen today and I like what I hear. But I'm worried too. I cannot simply leave tracks out in my own playlist. The tracks itself are a problem. For me a good album track has a build up and theme development. That's why the regular LOTR albums are so well done. But many of these tracks are 'meandering', not going anywhere (like with the LOTR completes). The LOTR completes did exactly that: remind me how good the regulars are.

    Perhaps this time they want to do it the other way around, first a complete release, then next year a special release with edited listenable tracks? They will call it The Best of the Hobbit. Or The Hobbit Concert Suites?


    Bob wrote:
    If you've already decided to release 2 versions of the score, why not make it 'regular' and 'large' instead of 'large' and 'slightly larger'? Casual listeners (broad audience) would be content with having the whole listening experience on 1 CD, and if that is not enough for you, you just get the 2CD version.

    This is what surprises me too.
    This long version will not appeal to casual listeners at all I think.

    I'm really trying to understand this decision but I can't. Even people who love all music for LOTR and The Hobbit must hear the difference between a good album track and a meandering one.
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      CommentAuthorJim Ware
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    The presentation of this really isn't ideal with all tracks cross-faded into each other. It makes the prospect of listening to it a little more intimidating than was intended!
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    Could the thing be that with Lord of the Rings, they rerecorded the music for the album, which gave them the opportunity to craft the "concert suite" tracks, and that they didn't have this opportunity this time around? As Bregje mentions, it's with these scores a lot more difficult to condense the film versions.
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      CommentAuthorJim Ware
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    The LOTR albums are not re-recordings, although they do feature a significant number of alternate *takes* and lots of intelligent editing.
  1. I am assuming that the CDs will have distinct tracks with gaps.

    And maybe the label is releasing these CD sets hoping people will buy them assuming that this is all to be released now. Then they will release a single CD version later?
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    BobdH wrote
    Well, I'm with Thor, I find it strange as well. If you've already decided to release 2 versions of the score, why not make it 'regular' and 'large' instead of 'large' and 'slightly larger'? Casual listeners (broad audience) would be content with having the whole listening experience on 1 CD, and if that is not enough for you, you just get the 2CD version. Everyone happy.

    Also: WHY repeat the discussion> It is CLEAR you two have different opinions and won't convince the other of your own.


    I think you just answered your own question -- the reason the discussion is repeated is because the producers offered no real choice in this case....just a long and a slightly longer release, both informed by what seems to be a C&C ideology (perhaps with elements of A&A -- arranged and abbreviated -- here and there). If there had been one viable alternative for each preference, there wouldn't be any reason for me to react, really.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    A&A! VERY good!
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    From everything I've read composers rarely compose to film chronologically.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    You know what? That's actually a VERY good point!
    I wonder how a composer -with the achronistic composing and all the post-process editing- generally tries and maintain some kind of thematic/sound unity?
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorJim Ware
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012
    If there had been one viable alternative for each preference, there wouldn't be any reason for me to react, really.


    But if the composer/producer deems a lengthy, mostly chronological release to be the best presentation of his work from an artistic and musical perspective, why do they need to offer a 'viable alternative'?
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2012 edited
    Jim Ware wrote
    If there had been one viable alternative for each preference, there wouldn't be any reason for me to react, really.


    But if the composer/producer deems a lengthy, mostly chronological release to be the best presentation of his work from an artistic and musical perspective, why do they need to offer a 'viable alternative'?


    They can do whatever they please, of course, but unless it's PURE album production going on (also including a re-conceptualized presentation of the music for CD format), it doesn't sit right with me. It's a compromise solution (a little bit of this, a little bit of that).

    I'm convinced that in this particular case, there are other concerns at play that 'dillute' some of the purity of a classical A&A album production. Maybe the success of the extended LOTR albums, maybe the fact that fans crave this thing, maybe Shore belongs to the few composers who prefer less artistic re-conceptualization and more preservation (Giacchino is another who seems to like that). I don't know.

    There are many aspects to album production, of course -- mixing, making covers, tweaking cues and so on. But what I've always found the MOST important aspect of soundtrack production, is picking out relevant cues, putting them in an order that makes musically (not filmically) sense, finding the narrative or emotional substance inside all the raw materials that gives the CD a coherent whole. A lot of this seems to be missing in the regular HOBBIT release. There's not enough discipline and self-restraint. It could do with some serious 'weeding' and re-organization to really make it succint. I would trust Shore 100% if he did this (he's done it many times before!), but he seems to have chosen a different route this time.
    I am extremely serious.
  2. Demetris wrote
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    Thor wrote
    Listening to the 2CD set as is was torture...

    If you think that of The Hobbit - An Unexpected Journey then you certainly don't want to listen to the 140 minutes of Jack Wall's Call of Duty: Black Ops II!


    I am not sure anyone wants to listen to either 5 minutes of the latter? wink


    I heard a track and I definitely think it's better than Modern Warfare 3.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2012
    Nein, leider ES ist nicht. It's pure noise.

    As for Hobbit, does it sound like lotr left over material from the recording sessions to anyone else too ? wink
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2012
    Noise? From Jack Wall??
    Crikey. That IS a disappointment. His work on Jade Empire and Wrath Unleashed is SO melodic and powerful!
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  3. I would say that the track I've heard from Black Ops 2, called Savimbi's Pride is probably some of the most exciting and yes, melodic, action music I hear this year... Modern Warfare 3 had quite a lot of noise...
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2012
    Martijn wrote
    Noise? From Jack Wall??
    Crikey. That IS a disappointment. His work on Jade Empire and Wrath Unleashed is SO melodic and powerful!


    ......he's with Trent Reznor on this one.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  4. Only the theme is Reznor's.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2012
    The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey with composer Howard Shore

    http://www.classicfm.com/composers/shor … ard-shore/
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  5. Martijn wrote
    A&A! VERY good!


    My favourite post of this thread.

    There are few scores these days that are not written by John Williams that could sustain a such a lengthy release. I would've thought a Hobbit score could supply two strong 50 minute discs, but even then it's strange they haven't given people the option of a shorter, highlights-packed experience.

    I'm just glad Thor has had the epiphany that his personal preferences for music listening (which are eminently sensible) are not a necessary consequence of an album being produced by professionals. (Rather they are a likely consequence of an album being produced by professionals... operating under the constraint of an imposed maximum album running time.) wink

    A large chunk of the 'shorter album' is apparently streaming here, track by track:
    http://warnerbros2012.warnerbros.com/hf … thehobbit#
    I'm too early in this to say anything other than -- 'yep, it does take a while to get going'. I can see why they threw the 'Radagast' track out there early -- it's one of the more interesting ones. Large stretches of play pretty turgid otherwise.
    Perhaps the proof that the new theme 'Misty Mountains' isn't Shore's theme is the fact that the tracks seem to have been chosen to avoid any reference to it.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    • CommentAuthorJosh B
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012
    Listening carefully to tracks separately has helped me appreciate the score more but it really is too long (and this is the short release we're talking about here). It takes forever to get moving but apparently, so does the movie.
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012 edited
    Hey guys. So am I to understand that the standard edition soundtrack is essentially the same as the online streaming version, as in, all the tracks segue into each other? I ask because I downloaded a copy "ripped" from the stream, tonight (I know, bad me); while the editing is great (was it streamed as one file, or did they delineate between tracks? I missed the stream), I was just wondering if this is also the way the tracks are in the CD, for those of you lucky enough to have it already. I intend to purchase the "Special Edition" version when it releases, but I got this in the meantime to tide me over.

    EDIT: Just saw franz_conrad's post above. Guess what I got is basically the official standard album, split up with cross-fading... Gotta admit, that's a little less than impressive, compared to the other Lord of the Rings soundtrack releases... Whatever. Will wait to pass judgement till I have my hands on the Special Edition too.
    • CommentAuthorJosh B
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012
    http://warnerbros2012.warnerbros.com/hf … =thehobbit

    You can hear most of the tracks on the standard release as they're undoubtedly presented on the CD here, without the cross-fades. No one really knows why they cross-faded the cues on the stream but it might have been an anti-piracy measure (along with the obnoxious "pause and start the whole thing over" system).
  6. Yep, that's the same link I posted. That's not quite the full standard release. It appears to have cut all the tracks which feature the Plan 9 'Misty Mountains' song.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012 edited
    Ah, interesting. Thanks, guys! Does anyone here have either edition of the soundtrack yet, or is it not out in Europe yet?
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012 edited
    Josh B wrote
    Listening carefully to tracks separately has helped me appreciate the score more but it really is too long (and this is the short release we're talking about here). It takes forever to get moving but apparently, so does the movie.


    It's going to be hell of a snoozefest then, eh? wink
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  7. Empire had to stream as one complete track as part of the agreement with the publishers. Whether Empire or Warners edited it for ease of listening or to thwart rippers getting the same as the CDs, I don't know. But I expect all the tracks to be separate with no crossfades.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  8. I think the Warner Bros site cuts out the Plan 9 theme because Howard Shore's Oscar campaign can't rely on that theme. wink
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012
    Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is the "Plan 9 theme"?
  9. That's the Misty Mountains song, which is used as a theme in the score.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    • CommentAuthorJosh B
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012
    It's certainly the most prominent new theme in the score, at least as far as long-lined ones go. There's also one that starts the score (and ends it) but it doesn't really hang in the memory. Everything else is mostly shorter motifs, some more interesting than others.