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    • CommentAuthorAlthazan
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009 edited
    L'Ours is very good.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009
    Althazan wrote
    Maybe this would be the best?:
    http://cine.abeillemusique.com/CD/Cinem … 33271.html
    I think I will order it very soon... smile


    That many Sarde scores...Wow! rolleyes wink
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorAlthazan
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009 edited
    Sorry, that Cosma, my mistake! But I will buy it, specially for "Le Jaguar".
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009 edited
    christopher wrote
    I still don't have anything by this composer. I looked around and found some of his albums for an affordable price. Here's what I found:

    Music Box
    Eve of Destruction
    Le Choc/J'ai Epouse Une Ombre
    The Tenant
    The Bear
    Le Train
    The Suitcase
    Cesar Et Rosalie
    Princeses/Un Frere
    Le Parfum de La Dame en Noir
    Sister Mary Explains it All
    Barocco
    Le Choix des Armes/Fort Saganne
    Alice and Martin
    The Manhattan Project
    7 Morts Sur Ordonnance - Le Sucre
    Le Valise
    Les Choses De La Vie - Max Et Les Ferrailleurs

    There are also a few compilations out there by director that he's worked with. Any suggestions as to where I should begin? Thanks in advance.


    I would start with TESS ( this is combined with The Tenant ), LE TRAIN ( I absolutely love this one to bits ) and THE BEAR ( aka L'Ours as Althazan mentioned ).
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009
    Althazan wrote
    Sorry, that Cosma, my mistake! But I will buy it, specially for "Le Jaguar".


    It is a fantastic bargain of a set and I'm not really familiar with Cosma beyond his score for DIVA. What is Le Jaguar like?
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorTintin
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009
    Do you know John Barry, Tim? wink
    • CommentAuthorTintin
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009
    Timmer wrote
    Althazan wrote
    Maybe this would be the best?:
    http://cine.abeillemusique.com/CD/Cinem … 33271.html
    I think I will order it very soon... smile


    That many Sarde scores...Wow! rolleyes wink


    At least, they are both French! smile That is a good deal.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009
    Tintin wrote
    Do you know John Barry, Tim? wink


    Nope! Any good?
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorTintin
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009
    Timmer wrote
    Tintin wrote
    Do you know John Barry, Tim? wink


    Nope! Any good?


    Yes, Le Jaguar is lush, lush and then lush. Like Barry can be. Very good score.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009
    It definitely sounds like a score I'll enjoy especially if it sounds like a composer I've never heard of. wink
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  1. Timmer wrote
    I would start with TESS ( this is combined with The Tenant ), LE TRAIN ( I absolutely love this one to bits ) and THE BEAR ( aka L'Ours as Althazan mentioned ).


    Thank you both!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009
    Christopher, I would also reservedly recommend La Guerre du Feu ( Quest For Fire ), a great score that employs the full forces of the LSO plus choir but it's not always an easy listen, though I would definitely say one that rewards upon repeat listens; I've never tired of listening to this work.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009
    Timmer wrote
    Christopher, I would also reservedly recommend La Guerre du Feu ( Quest For Fire ), a great score that employs the full forces of the LSO plus choir but it's not always an easy listen, though I would definitely say one that rewards upon repeat listens; I've never tired of listening to this work.


    Didn't you just say in an earlier thread that this was one of the most sober accounts of early humans on the film screen? How does that click with "the full forces of the LSO plus choir"? I would have thought a few hints of tribal drumming, at most.
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009 edited
    The choir is used intelligently and sparingly, most notably in the awesome Creation of Fire, the rest of the score veers between quieter moments ( a lovely love theme ) to harsh moments with very atonal writing and yes, there is some good purcussive work in the score too that's very tribal. A fine and complex score.

    This is more LSO in Stravinsky mode than LSO in John Williams mode, the score works wonderfully in the film.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009
    Timmer wrote
    The choir is used intelligently and sparingly, most notably in the awesome Creation of Fire, the rest of the score veers between quieter moments ( a lovely love theme ) to harsh moments with very atonal writing and yes, there is some good purcussive work in the score too that's very tribal. A fine and complex score.

    This is more LSO in Stravinsky mode than LSO in John Williams mode, the score works wonderfully in the film.


    Gotcha! It's still on my to-see-list, if I can find it.
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorAlthazan
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009 edited
    Timmer wrote
    It is a fantastic bargain of a set and I'm not really familiar with Cosma beyond his score for DIVA. What is Le Jaguar like?


    As Tintin wrote, it's very lush and romantic. I heard it some time ago, then I have listened it many times and then decided to get... But it's hard to find in reasonable price, so now I'm very happy to get it with other many good scores together... smile
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009
    If anyone can find THE BEAR for a good price pick it up immediately! I think Intrada was selling a mint copy for $250.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009
    Thor wrote
    Timmer wrote
    The choir is used intelligently and sparingly, most notably in the awesome Creation of Fire, the rest of the score veers between quieter moments ( a lovely love theme ) to harsh moments with very atonal writing and yes, there is some good purcussive work in the score too that's very tribal. A fine and complex score.

    This is more LSO in Stravinsky mode than LSO in John Williams mode, the score works wonderfully in the film.


    Gotcha! It's still on my to-see-list, if I can find it.


    It was released on DVD for the first time only a couple of years ago Thor so it shouldn't be a problem.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorAlthazan
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009
    Erik Woods wrote
    If anyone can find THE BEAR for a good price pick it up immediately! I think Intrada was selling a mint copy for $250.

    -Erik-


    Here you are (I'm not the seller):
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi … 0493038707
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2009 edited
    OK, Timmer, based on your recommendation, I rented this on DVD tonight.

    Well, it's by far the best I've seen of the "caveman movies". I LOVE the fact that there is no dialogue per se, mostly body language and grunting noises (even though some of those guttural words had an English accent! smile). Proves that you don't have to have people speaking in contemporary languages to communicate a story. Also, of course, the scenery shots are absolutely gorgeous, typical of Annaud.

    However, I HAVE some issues with it. It seems like they threw every ingredient they knew into the same film. You've got three different human races - one very primitive and ape-like, one intermediary (which contains our protagonists) and one more advanced. All of these seem to live generally within the same area at the same time, that they also happen to share with wolves, lions, bears and mammuts! The topography is also a weird hybrid of Scotland and Kenya (where the film is shot). So in this sense, it's more a fantasy "stone age" than an accurate depiction of how people lived 80.000 years ago.

    Another element that adds to the "fantasy" mix is Sarde's score. It's big and muscular with the LSO and choir branching out in quite harsh soundscapes at times. Definitely not a minimal, tribal drumming-type score which could possibly have added to the realism if that had been their goal. Then again, the music takes over the "drama role" from verbal language, so perhaps it had to be so.

    I guess I'm still waiting for that ultimate fiction film on pre-historic humans...
    I am extremely serious.
  2. Thor wrote
    Timmer wrote
    The choir is used intelligently and sparingly, most notably in the awesome Creation of Fire, the rest of the score veers between quieter moments ( a lovely love theme ) to harsh moments with very atonal writing and yes, there is some good purcussive work in the score too that's very tribal. A fine and complex score.

    This is more LSO in Stravinsky mode than LSO in John Williams mode, the score works wonderfully in the film.


    Gotcha! It's still on my to-see-list, if I can find it.


    I'll risk raising the ire of Tim here, but for me QUEST FOR FIRE is one of the all time classic bad films. A bit like FAREWELL TO THE KING, the filmmakers are so serious and well-intentioned that the shortfall of their efforts elicits laughs from me. I still go to the apes of 2001 to feel like I'm seeing something from the Dawn of Man...
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2009 edited
    Strong words Michael, you have some valid points but at this point in time it's as good as it gets, 'one of the all time classic bad films?', hardly!

    The 'dawn of man' sequence in 2001 is great but benefits from being a very short sequence without that much substance.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2009
    Thor wrote
    OK, Timmer, based on your recommendation, I rented this on DVD tonight.

    Well, it's by far the best I've seen of the "caveman movies". I LOVE the fact that there is no dialogue per se, mostly body language and grunting noises (even though some of those guttural words had an English accent! smile). Proves that you don't have to have people speaking in contemporary languages to communicate a story. Also, of course, the scenery shots are absolutely gorgeous, typical of Annaud.

    However, I HAVE some issues with it. It seems like they threw every ingredient they knew into the same film. You've got three different human races - one very primitive and ape-like, one intermediary (which contains our protagonists) and one more advanced. All of these seem to live generally within the same area at the same time, that they also happen to share with wolves, lions, bears and mammuts! The topography is also a weird hybrid of Scotland and Kenya (where the film is shot). So in this sense, it's more a fantasy "stone age" than an accurate depiction of how people lived 80.000 years ago.

    Another element that adds to the "fantasy" mix is Sarde's score. It's big and muscular with the LSO and choir branching out in quite harsh soundscapes at times. Definitely not a minimal, tribal drumming-type score which could possibly have added to the realism if that had been their goal. Then again, the music takes over the "drama role" from verbal language, so perhaps it had to be so.

    I guess I'm still waiting for that ultimate fiction film on pre-historic humans...


    Hard to disagree with anything you said here, I'll have to re-read tomorrow when my head is claer dizzy wink
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  3. Timmer wrote
    Strong words Michael, you have some valid points but at this point in time it's as good as it gets, 'one of the all time classic bad films?', hardly!


    It is such a subjective thing. For QUEST FOR FIRE never gets away from people a bunch of modern actors grunting their way through some pretty scenery. Somehow men in ape suits felt more credible to me! wink


    The 'dawn of man' sequence in 2001 is great but benefits from being a very short sequence without that much substance.


    It tries to depict one critical moment in the evolution of man, and does so in 20 minutes is sublime filmcraft. I can't think little of it for being so short. The short form is arguably one of its strengths. But yes, that does mean I've not seen a feature length rendering of primitive man that worked. It all tends to look pretty ridiculous to me.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2009
    franz_conrad wrote
    It tries to depict one critical moment in the evolution of man, and does so in 20 minutes is sublime filmcraft. I can't think little of it for being so short. The short form is arguably one of its strengths. But yes, that does mean I've not seen a feature length rendering of primitive man that worked. It all tends to look pretty ridiculous to me.


    Why is that, do you think?
    I am extremely serious.
  4. Thor wrote
    franz_conrad wrote
    It tries to depict one critical moment in the evolution of man, and does so in 20 minutes is sublime filmcraft. I can't think little of it for being so short. The short form is arguably one of its strengths. But yes, that does mean I've not seen a feature length rendering of primitive man that worked. It all tends to look pretty ridiculous to me.


    Why is that, do you think?


    I don't know, but assume the considerable gap between being Stanley Kubrick / Arthur C Clarke and being Dino De Laurentis or Jean Jacque Annuad has something to do with it.

    Or it could have something to do with this: while 'Dawn of Man' is a story, it doesn't feel like a story is being presented to us. Does it hurt QUEST FOR FIRE that a lot of theories about early man have been gathered together in narrative form? Possibly. Or perhaps it didn't help that I knew the actors from other films?
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2009 edited
    franz_conrad wrote
    Thor wrote
    franz_conrad wrote
    It tries to depict one critical moment in the evolution of man, and does so in 20 minutes is sublime filmcraft. I can't think little of it for being so short. The short form is arguably one of its strengths. But yes, that does mean I've not seen a feature length rendering of primitive man that worked. It all tends to look pretty ridiculous to me.


    Why is that, do you think?


    I don't know, but assume the considerable gap between being Stanley Kubrick / Arthur C Clarke and being Dino De Laurentis or Jean Jacque Annuad has something to do with it.

    Or it could have something to do with this: while 'Dawn of Man' is a story, it doesn't feel like a story is being presented to us. Does it hurt QUEST FOR FIRE that a lot of theories about early man have been gathered together in narrative form? Possibly. Or perhaps it didn't help that I knew the actors from other films?


    Yeah, but I was more thinking why it is so difficult for filmmakers to make a credible film about early humans....heck, even films as "contemporary" as the stone age. I've always found that fascinating; that you have great historical films that go back to, let's say, even 4-5000 BC, but from then on it's pretty sketchy. And we're talking 90.000 years of previous human history here (at least for the Homo Sapiens.....even older if you count older species)!

    OK, so the data becomes more obscure the longer back you go, but that's never stopped creative minds to speculate.
    I am extremely serious.
  5. Maybe it's hard to buy into grunting? Particularly when it's an actor you know doesn't grunt? (E.g. Ron Perlman!)
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2009
    franz_conrad wrote
    Maybe it's hard to buy into grunting? Particularly when it's an actor you know doesn't grunt? (E.g. Ron Perlman!)


    Well, Perlman was of course a GIVEN in this film, given his looks (which has landed him many such projects over the years). In many ways, I would have asked myself "why isn't Ron Perlman in this film?" if he hadn't been.
    I am extremely serious.
  6. Yes, but I think a film like this can only begin to work when there's nothing to anchor you back in the present. Perlman may look Cro-Magnon, and at the time would have been unfamiliar, but I know he's an actor pretending to be a grunting simpleton, and the whole thing becomes more pantomime than simulacrum.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am