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REINHOLD HEIL / JOHNNY KLIMEK / TOM TYKWER

General Discussions » REINHOLD HEIL / JOHNNY KLIMEK / TOM TYKWER (Posts 61 to 90 of 109)

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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2012
    Demetris wrote
    What's with the no musical training thing? Some of the best film composers are "not musically trained".


    Yeah, but on a project like this?. I wouldn't want Bruce Broughton scoring Lola Rennt either.
    http://www.movie-wave.net | http://facebook.com/moviewave
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2012 edited
    franz_conrad wrote
    Demetris wrote
    What's with the no musical training thing? Some of the best film composers are "not musically trained".


    Yes, but it would be a strange thing to choose them out of all the composers in the world to write the music that constitutes a major plotline in CLOUD ATLAS.


    Not strange at all, if they can deliver. And I would take perfume's musicianship as a score, anytime, over the crap some of our big, formally trained composers are giving us these days. What's so special about this musical element in cloud atlas my friend? It's only we film score geeks that over analyze things. For the rest of the world and cast and crew, all it needs is a beautiful, memorable theme. Not some weird Middle Ages stuff that nobody could bear outside the film.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2012
    Southall wrote
    Demetris wrote
    What's with the no musical training thing? Some of the best film composers are "not musically trained".


    Yeah, but on a project like this?. I wouldn't want Bruce Broughton scoring Lola Rennt either.


    As I said, the only ones who are overestimating the Music's importance in this movie so far, it's us. For the rest of the world it's just a nice theme connecting the stories and if they can remember it after they leave the cinema, it's a big success. Ad forgive me but I believe that what they wrote for the trailer at least, is gorgeous. If anyone else from the current greats had written this, I can imagine many people that would be jizzing instead wink
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  4. Demetris wrote
    franz_conrad wrote
    Demetris wrote
    What's with the no musical training thing? Some of the best film composers are "not musically trained".


    Yes, but it would be a strange thing to choose them out of all the composers in the world to write the music that constitutes a major plotline in CLOUD ATLAS.


    Not strange at all, if they can deliver. And I would take perfume's musicianship as a score, anytime, over the crap some of our big, formally trained composers are giving us these days. What's so special about this musical element in cloud atlas my friend?


    Well, I'm getting into spoilers now, but basically a key plotline is a young composition student from England, fascinated with Schoenberg and Stravinsky, journeys to the Dutch home of Delius (or a Delius-like composer), and offers to be his composing assistant. Together they write the composer's last great work. Meanwhile the young composer writes a piece of his own, a recording of which is heard in another of the stories.

    But in other words, the person who writes the music of this film has to be pretty comfortable with music of that era and write it anew, from the inside out. And while I like much of TKH have done in film, they've just never given any indication that they've done anything like that. Indeed, it looks like the 'Cloud Atlas Sextet' may have actually been written with the aid of someone else.

    As a reader of the book, incidentally, I'm not sure who I would have given the film to among film composers. Don Davis would certainly be a candidate, but I'd be tempted to look more towards the best of modern classical voices (Ades, or Adams, or Corigliano perhaps).
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2012
    I am with you, but i think they wanted something simple, memorable to the general public and beautiful with today's standards. Something easily digested. If they went strictly for the musicological core of the movie what would come up with perhaps a different composer would most likely not be like that. Certainly not for the general public.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  6. I don't think they went with something easily digestible because that's what they think people want. They may well think that, but I reckon they did it because that's what they're able to do. The trick would have been to find the composer who could straddle the divide, and it feels a bit disappointing that on a landmark project like this, they didn't give one the chance.

    Maybe RED VIOLIN really was a stroke of luck. A rare case where a case with a strong musical heart got a composer fit to the task.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2012
    Well it's an interesting point 'cause nothing Corigliano ever wrote before or after that sounds like Red Violin. As for Cloud Atlas, i got this impression 'cause it looks and feels simple in core. Wants to suggest otherwise but i strongly believe people who will take this too seriously or be very strict about it are going to have a bad time at the cinema smile
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  8. Demetris wrote
    Well it's an interesting point 'cause nothing Corigliano ever wrote before or after that sounds like Red Violin.


    There you go -- technique helps! wink


    As for Cloud Atlas, i got this impression 'cause it looks and feels simple in core. Wants to suggest otherwise but i strongly believe people who will take this too seriously or be very strict about it are going to have a bad time at the cinema smile


    I just want to see the book done justice. smile And yes, it does have a fairly simple core. The complexity is all in the form and texture. A good film of the book could be described the same way. Ideally, so could the music of that film. Simple at heart (like Red Violin's simple chaconne and theme), complex in the form.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2012
    Very difficult for a cinematic version to do justice to a film. I think in general people are unfair towards the cinematic medium, because - depending on the book, it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to do justice to a 1000 paged book on just a mere 2 hours of film or less.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeOct 2nd 2012 edited
    The problem, I think, is that not everybody (certainly not the mass audience) understands the difference between both mediums. What is brilliant in a book, doesn't need to be so when translated literally to film. Unfortunately many directors don't seem to understand this and try to be as faithful as possible to the source material, fearing complaints from fans, and are as such slaves of the original book. While the most successful adaptations often deviate from the source material considerably (think about the drastically changed structure of The Two Towers, the fact Minority Report or Blade Runner only use the novel as inspiration, etc.). Chuck Palahniuk considers the film adaptation of Fight Club to be superior to his novel, because another artist took his work and built upon it, enriched it, and that is what every adapter should do. Do not consider the source as faultless and holy.

    Anyhow, my $ 0,02.
  11. Yeah, I get that guys. CLOUD ATLAS will obviously be a different beast as film compared to book. (The whole literal reincarnation thing, as well as the continuous intercutting of the stories, are huge adjustments the adaptation is making -- ones which may make the story clearer, or more opaque.) But the style of music that binds it all together, I don't see how that's an issue of faithfulness to the plot so much as faithfulness to the spirit of the thing. In the end there should be a piece of music emerging from one of the plots whose composition is credible within that plot, and whose structure is a microcosm of how the 6 stories relate to each other. They could change whole characters, delete plots, change the order around -- it shouldn't matter. But if they don't get that music right, I would argue they didn't get what works about the novel. It's not about the stories, which are not particularly special -- it's about the way they're told. wave
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  12. I agree. I'd like to hear something more authentic sounding for the Cloud Atlas Sextet. Regardless, I'm really looking forward to this score.

    And on the subject of films that surpassed their literary source material, how about THE PRESTIGE? Brilliant film!
  13. Must agree on PRESTIGE. Although there's no question it's a good book, it's a great film.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2012
    Film and score for PRESTIGE were absolutely brilliant.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 3rd 2012
    The more i listen to the clips http://www.amazon.com/Cloud-Atlas-Origi … mp;sr=1-12 the more i realize this score is grand..doesn't sound like coming from musically uneducated people at all wink
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  16. Which cues are standing out for you? There's a few exceptions, but isn't it mostly a nice piano theme + a lot of that Zimmer/TronLegacy allegro stuff. It's good, but isn't this what most film scores are made of these days?

    The cue here even has both of them in the same track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFDeHRc3agY
    tongue

    Ok, that's a bit harsh. shame

    (By the way -- I'm not trying to be a complete stick in the mud here. I just think sometimes it's worth considering that something could have been better.)
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  17. The main theme from the score here:
    http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/10/18/c … om-tykwer/
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012
    Really, very nice! This is certainly shaping up to be their most beautiful score since Perfume.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012
    Well well well!
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  20. My opinion remains the same, just thought I'd share it for those who like it. wink tongue
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  21. And here's the full score streaming:
    http://music.aol.com/new-releases-full-cds/#/7
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
    The score is absolutely amazing. As i said in shittybook, and my opinion is even more enforced now after a couple of days of full listening sessions, it's a real winner. I didn't think they could out-do themselves in THE PERFUME (@Reinhold Reinhold Heil, Johnny Klimek, and Tom Tykwer), at least not so fast. But after hearing the most exceptional compositions for film this year in "Cloud Atlas Finale" and "Cloud Atlas sextet for orchestra" i am convinced that the purely orchestral score for CLOUD ATLAS is hands-down the best music for movies in the entire 2012. Together with Fernando Velazquez's LO IMPOSSIBLE of course. A spectacular ending for 2012 in film music.

    Can't wait to get my CD.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
    I thought the album started well, then went rather dull for a long time before picking up for the last couple of cues. But even they're - entertaining though they are - very much of the post-"Journey to the Line" Hans Zimmer school of composition when he's striving for something meaningful. Well done as far as that sort of thing goes, but there's a limit to it. Still, everyone seems to be going gaga over it, just as they (so mystifyingly) did for Perfume, so I guess mine will be a lonely voice again.
    http://www.movie-wave.net | http://facebook.com/moviewave
  24. I'm a bit closer to Jim than to Demi, surprise surprise. (Although I do like parts - 'Kesselring' is a nice merging of the TRON LEGACY / BATMAN BEGINS sound with their main theme. And the 'Edinburgh' track is good.)

    The attempted counterpoint in the 'End Title' is admirable but the execution is clunky. (A bit too much ends up sounding 'wrong' without being intentionally dissonant.)

    It's nice to hear the romance of a piece like the 'Sextet'. It should be noted though that it isn't the piece that is described in the book:
    “Spent the fortnight gone in the music room, reworking my year’s fragments into a “sextet for overlapping soloists”: piano, clarinet, ‘cello, flute, oboe, and violin, each in its own language, key, scale and color. In the first set, each solo is interrupted by its successor: in the second each interruption is recontinued, in order”

    For one, it's not a sextet. The sextet of this album is more a straight full orchestral piece, with an emphasis on full strings. (An intentional avoiding of the point?) Secondly, the structure of the piece, which is meant to echo the structure of the tale, and the relationships between the subplots, is not there either. What's the idea?
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeOct 25th 2012
    Southall wrote
    I thought the album started well, then went rather dull for a long time before picking up for the last couple of cues. But even they're - entertaining though they are - very much of the post-"Journey to the Line" Hans Zimmer school of composition when he's striving for something meaningful. Well done as far as that sort of thing goes, but there's a limit to it. Still, everyone seems to be going gaga over it, just as they (so mystifyingly) did for Perfume, so I guess mine will be a lonely voice again.


    I agree with you about the music. It's lacking a bit, in many places. The thematic material feels like it should have had more chances to be grand and relevant, but falters. As a fan of Perfume, which featured so many great moments, I'm disappointed in most of the music for Cloud Atlas. Perhaps this is a score that has to be heard in the movie to understand....
  26. My review of the CLOUD ATLAS score, if anyone is interested:

    http://moviemusicuk.us/2012/10/29/cloud … hold-heil/

    Jon
    Movie Music UK http://www.moviemusicuk.us
  27. Jon, interesting to see the way you delineate the styles to sections of the story. Just out of curiosity -- it will lessen my disappointment if I don't discover this when I see the film -- is the 'Cloud Atlas Sextet' ever heard in the film as a sextet? (I hope that track on the album, a 'sextet for full strings', is not meant to be the summation of poor Robert Frobisher's existence. He really wasn't meant to be a composer if that is the piece he felt he couldn't ever improve upon.)
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  28. Not in the fullest performance that you hear on the CD. It "evolves' as it is being written by Frobisher in the 1930s sequence, one of Halle Berry's characters listens to a good deal of it in a record store in the 1970s segment, and then some of it appears in the end credits. But the single performance of the entire sextet on CD does not appear in full in the film, no.
    Movie Music UK http://www.moviemusicuk.us
  29. The key phrase is 'as a sextet'. The piece on the album is not a sextet.
    (Mind you, I'd understand if they'd taken the smart move of not trying to write the actual piece that is meant to be at the heart of the work. There's a certain smart modesty in that.)
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2012
    Too much analyzing and thinking takes all the fun away wink
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.

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