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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2017
    Nice interview with Elfman where he confirms he's reusing his Batman theme (and Zimmer's Wonder Woman theme... and Williams's Superman theme!) in Justice League:

    http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/ … -interview
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2017
    WHAT ON EARTH
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
  1. I love this! It sounds like we're finally going to get a fun DC movie.
  2. What an odd direction for DC to take things. It really seems like they can't figure things out. First they strike out in a new musical direction (albeit an exceedingly underwhelming one, if you ask me) and then they fall back on past glories? There's no cohesive vision there, that's for sure...
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2017
    agreed Marvel still has them completely beat in terms of music, but I'm still interested
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
  3. I mean, Elfman did a pretty good job adapting Silvestri's Avengers theme. I don't doubt he has the chops. This could be really exciting...or it could end up an incoherent mess. Really curious to see how it pans out.
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2017 edited
    Aidabaida wrote
    agreed Marvel still has them completely beat in terms of music, but I'm still interested


    You think? If there's one company that has been musically confused from the start, it's Marvel. Here's a studio that had the opportunity to create a rich tapestry of themes and strong identities for its heroic characters, only to keep switching composers, let each composer create new themes, nothing sticks, coherency has long been lost... They should've gone with a single vision, but I can't hum a single theme of theirs. They severely dropped the ball and are still trying to figure this music thing out - as if they're constantly searching for the right way to go.

    Like DC's musical identity or not, at least they were consistent. Sure, the musical direction of their past films has been more classically heroic, but since they started out with the DC Cinematic Universe, they set themselves apart from Marvel by actually sticking with created themes. Superman's identity from Man of Steel onwards was clear, Wonder Woman has the same theme in the VS. movie as in her own. Now, Elfman is going to mess this all up - why would you want to return with themes that were written for pas iterations of the characters? Does this complement Zimmer's contributions (then when to use the one theme, when the other?) or does he discard his themes, even though it's a film set within that universe? And yet he still goes with Wonder Woman's theme, probably only because her new RC theme doesn't have a classic counterpart. It makes. no. sense.

    I think it's a desperate attempt by a studio who senses it's failing in an area they should be incredibly successful in. This is the era of the superhero film, yet they're facing setback after setback.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2017
    The music in these films has been absolute garbage. Consistent, yes - consistently awful. I'm not the biggest Elfman fan and some of his bigger scores can seem like jumbled messes, so I don't know if I will like it or not - but I certainly hope he pulls it off and proves everyone who said "but you can't have themes like you used to! It's a different time!" wrong.
  4. Marvel has had next to no consistently in its music and that is absolutely a missed opportunity that should be lamented. But they have had several individually strong scores which are enough to put them well above DC musically, in my estimation. I'm surprised to hear you can't hum Silvestri's main Avengers theme at the very least. That one's pretty memorable, and they have dropped it into a few films now. In fact I have no trouble recalling pretty much any of the primary themes for Marvel's scores - Tyler's for Iron Man, Doyle's for Thor, Silvestri's for Captain America, Craig Armstrong's super underrated Hulk effort, Christophe Beck's Ant-Man, Giacchino's Doctor Strange...all those scores have strong main themes.

    Yes the DC themes have been used more consistently across films but look at the average quality level score-to-score and Marvel is way ahead, consistency issues be damned.
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2017
    BobdH wrote

    You think? If there's one company that has been musically confused from the start, it's Marvel. Here's a studio that had the opportunity to create a rich tapestry of themes and strong identities for its heroic characters, only to keep switching composers, let each composer create new themes, nothing sticks, coherency has long been lost... They should've gone with a single vision, but I can't hum a single theme of theirs. They severely dropped the ball and are still trying to figure this music thing out - as if they're constantly searching for the right way to go.

    Like DC's musical identity or not, at least they were consistent. Sure, the musical direction of their past films has been more classically heroic, but since they started out with the DC Cinematic Universe, they set themselves apart from Marvel by actually sticking with created themes. Superman's identity from Man of Steel onwards was clear, Wonder Woman has the same theme in the VS. movie as in her own. Now, Elfman is going to mess this all up - why would you want to return with themes that were written for pas iterations of the characters? Does this complement Zimmer's contributions (then when to use the one theme, when the other?) or does he discard his themes, even though it's a film set within that universe? And yet he still goes with Wonder Woman's theme, probably only because her new RC theme doesn't have a classic counterpart. It makes. no. sense.

    I think it's a desperate attempt by a studio who senses it's failing in an area they should be incredibly successful in. This is the era of the superhero film, yet they're facing setback after setback.


    i think the only problems with the themes is that they aren't played enough in the actual movies and there's next-to-no continuity.

    The whole isn't greater than the sum of its parts, but the parts are pretty good. The scores don't form a great coherent tapestry, but each one is interesting in and of itself, moreover, I can't think of a single score with a weak main theme except perhaps the original Iron Man. After about 2 viewings of each film and a listen to the soundtrack, I can hum and recall every theme, they are all quite memorable and spirited.

    I don't think consistency is worth much when each score is generic RC garbage. Sure DC's themes carry over, but who cares, if the themes are unlistenable or dull?

    Plus, there's actual moments of brilliance in Marvel scores (think 'Civil War', when the main airport conflict begins and the music grows tragic and weighty to offset the sparkle of the action and remind you of the sadness of seeing beloved heroes at each other's throats), whereas DC's scores have by-in-large harmed their movies in my opinion; Batman v Superman's score specifically was at-times laughably bad, and Wonder Woman deserved more than a rehash of 00's era Media Ventures power anthems.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
  5. You are aware that Civil War was scored by an RC guy, right? And that Elfman IS retaining the Zimmer Wonder Woman theme?
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2017
    sure but Civil War wasn't an RC score. Jackman really achieved a complex web of subtle themes not unlike the Force Awakens.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
  6. Quite unlike The Force Awakens, I find.
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2017 edited
    Could you clarify why you disagree?

    I'll clarify my statement a bit: Like Williams's score, the themes are a bit darker and subtler, but that's made up for by how intelligently they are woven together, and the overall complexity of the score. (Check out the sheet music for "Cap's Promise" the constant shifting of the time signature and unpredictable rhythms are beyond what I'd call an "RC" score, but still build to an extremely satisfying finish). Like Williams's score, the elements are tightly controlled, the early action music is quite low-key and subtle, thus allowing a build to an absolutely staggering conclusion (the final soaring action in "Closure" is among Jackman's very best). The themes slip in and through each other, (There's an exceptionally brilliant moment where the leering of Zemo's theme fades into the wail of a diagetic police siren).

    So while Jackman's style is, of course, far different than Williams', I think the scores are comparable in the density of the composition and the overall intelligence of assembly, forgoing visceral satisfaction for a subtler kind of pleasure.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
  7. Mostly because the themes are playing about seventy-three leagues below Williams, and so is the action music, and so is pretty much everything else. Yes there are a lot of themes weaving about in that score, but they are all so mediocre and forgettable that it hardly matters (see also: Thrones, Game of). There's a new Spidey theme in there, I think? but it's almost indistinguishable from his Cap theme? which is almost identical to but bizarrely slightly altered from his Cap theme from Winter Soldier? I just find it all a bit haphazard and unengaging. Not a bad score necessarily...but The Force Awakens?
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2017 edited
    They're comparable more in terms of structure than quality. I'll take Williams over Jackman any day: saying that one score is like another score doesn't mean that score is equal in terms of quality. I don't think that Jackman is better or equal to Williams, but there are strong parallels to be drawn in terms of how they adapted their respective styles to suit an ambitious movie with lots of characters, and the overall maturity of the compositions. When I listen to early Williams and early Jackman, there's a lot of energy and zest, and that's totally fine, obviously, William's 80's scores are a thing of wonder, and Jackman's early work on, say, "Up is Down" from Pirates 3 is full of enthusiasm, but I find it more satisfying when composers tone down brassy energy and invest in a more cerebral tapestry of music. The scores aren't the same quality, but I think they were written from a similar core idea: supporting rather than dominating an already packed movie.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeOct 4th 2017
    Well, I posted my interview in the other thread, but here it is again:

    http://celluloidtunes.no/celluloid-tune … l-edition/

    In it, Elfman reveals that he's writing a piano quartet for the Berlin Philharmonic.
    I am extremely serious.
  8. A cue from "Justice League":
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojyuFzWA0v4


    Me no likey.
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2017 edited
    Its like "Men in Black"s theme. Great rhythm, but they forgot to turn on the mic next to whoever was playing the melody.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2017
    This could have been written by anyone.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2017
    Meh
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2017
    Meh indeed. It's been a LONG time since I gave up on Elfman's big blockbuster scores. To me, these days he's ALL about the small indie efforts, where he shines like never before.
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorjb1234
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2017
    Yeah, it basically sounds like what I expected it to sound like for this movie.
  9. I like it
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeOct 27th 2017
    Thor wrote
    Meh indeed. It's been a LONG time since I gave up on Elfman's big blockbuster scores. To me, these days he's ALL about the small indie efforts, where he shines like never before.


    I agree. He's still capable of great scoring. I think he's either written himself out on this stuff or he's bored of it and not inspired.

    I quite liked his Avengers Age of Ultron score but it wasn't particularly special.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2017 edited
    someone on filmtracks shared a twitter link with a video of Danny Elfman saying there is "only one Batman theme". Somebody had responded to the twitter video with some insane rambling about how Hans Zimmer's themes are far superior to those cheesy 70s trash themes.

    I was just shaking my head until I realized our guy Eric Woods had responded to the troll with a simple, "Delete your account."

    biggrin
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2017
    Well, they're not factually wrong, of course, but I think Elfman's comment was clearly intended as "there is only one BATMAN theme to ME", which is perfectly OK.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeNov 3rd 2017
    I hate the fact that Elfman got the okay to use the Superman theme (even though Hans Zimmer came up with a very appropriate version) as well as his own Batman theme. Even though none of those movies have any continuity between them. Heck, even the animated series and movies didn't even reference those. And then his Hero theme is completely underwhelming and anonymous. But then, to be honest, I've not been impressed with anything he's done recently.

    Anyway, I am looking forward to Alan Silvestri's Infinity War score.
  10. Which animated series? "Batman: The Animated Series" does ("The Last Laugh" is an example).
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeNov 3rd 2017
    Elfman's contributions to AGE OF ULTRON were the best Superhero music in the Marvel or DC universe, but I've been disappointed by the Justice League clips so far.

    somebody recut a teaser for Justice League with Danny Elfman's "FINALE" music from Batman. It is INCREDIBLE. Check it out!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QeE3o66SUc
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.