• Categories

Vanilla 1.1.4 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

 
    • CommentAuthorWyatt
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2008
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    I was listening to Hellboy II earlier and I see what you mean James(?) when you mentioned all the references to other scores that feature in this Hellboy sequel. But I have to admit that, rather than sounding like a coherent amalgam of influences to produce a well-constructed whole, it all sounds really disjointed and bitty.

    Or maybe I'm just disappointed at the missed opportunity for Beltrami to build on a solid musical world that he put together for the first movie that has been completely shelved for this second film.

    You know, I'm not really familiar with Guillermo del Toro's experience of working with Beltrami, but I remember watching an extra on Pan's Labyrinth in which he described how painstakingly long of a task it was to get the score just right with Navarette, he actually sounded pretty upset just talking about it. Anyway, the conclusion that I came to is that Danny Elfman is (in my opinion) a pretty universal composer who can make something at least decent and well fitting on his own, so I think del Toro just left most of the work to him... just like how it seemed that del Toro left any depth to the Hellboy characters in the first film, but that's a whole other story...

    But, you know, that's just my two cents.
    •  
      CommentAuthordgoldwas
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2008
    http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la … 9577.story

    The following piece appeared in Sunday's Los Angeles Times regarding Danny Elfman's new ballet, "Rabbit and Rogue" which has its West Coast premiere on Wednesday, August 6, 2008:

    How Twyla Tharp's moves met Danny Elfman's music
    'Rabbit and Rogue,' coming to Orange County Performing Artscenter, is the bold work of talents joined by American Ballet Theatre.
    By Susan Reiter, Special to The Times
    August 3, 2008

    NEW YORK -- AN EXPANSIVE new work from one of the world's leading choreographers, set to an original score by a high-profile composer making his first foray into the world of dance -- this is hardly American Ballet Theatre's usual fare these days. The multi-part programs that once were the troupe's standard offerings have given way for the most part to full-evening narrative works, especially for touring engagements, as presenters prefer to play things safe.

    But one of the company's most ambitious new ventures, Twyla Tharp's "Rabbit and Rogue," with a score by Danny Elfman, is not only beginning six performances at the Orange County Performing Artscenter on Wednesday but was also co-commissioned by the venue.

    The 45-minute work, for a cast of 22, received decidedly mixed reviews after its premiere in New York in June. But it's undeniably big and bold and filled with dense movement. The five sections of Elfman's score specifically allude to such disparate musical sources as ragtime and gamelan, but his subtly shifting, propulsive music also has moments evocative of Lou Harrison, Darius Milhaud, raucous circusy sounds and shimmering Minimalism.

    Tharp, who last choreographed for ballet companies in 2000, has returned to ballet in a big way this year. In March, Miami City Ballet premiered her "Nightspot," to a commissioned score by Elvis Costello. "Rabbit and Rogue" followed, and these days she is in Seattle working on a pair of premieres for an all-Tharp program by Pacific Northwest Ballet.

    Although she formed a chamber-sized touring company in 2000 for which she made several bracing new works -- right after creating imposing ballets to Beethoven (for New York City Ballet) and Brahms (for ABT) -- Tharp soon went in a very different direction, collaborating with two of the foremost living singer-songwriters on Broadway projects that stretched the definition of a musical. "Movin' Out," set to Billy Joel songs, was a triumph; "The Times They Are A-Changin'," to Bob Dylan, less so.

    In 2006 -- around the time the latter show was making its move from San Diego, where it originated, to Broadway -- Elfman was approached by ABT about the idea of a commissioned score. "I'm not well versed in contemporary choreography, but they invited me to their gala in New York that fall, and Twyla's 'In the Upper Room' was fresh in my mind when they asked me which choreographer I'd like to work with," the former frontman of the rock group Oingo Boingo and composer of scores for such films as " Spider-Man" and the original " Batman" recalled recently by phone from his Los Angeles office. But he said consternation greeted his mention of Tharp's name. He was told how difficult a Tharp collaboration would be, how officials doubted she'd be interested. Back in L.A. a few days later, though, he got a call: Tharp was very interested. Could he return to New York for a meeting?

    "We hung out for an afternoon and said let's do it. We got to know each other, talking about narrative versus non-narrative, the pros and cons of each," Elfman said. From the start, the work was envisioned as half of a program -- longer than the standard 20- to 30-minute repertory work but less than evening-length.

    Tharp, despite the oft-chronicled many hours she spent at her family's drive-in while growing up in Rialto, claims, "I'm not a moviegoer, so I hadn't seen his work there." But perched at an outdoor table at a restaurant near her Upper West Side apartment, sportily dressed, looking tanned and far younger than her 67 years, she explained why Elfman intrigued her as a collaborator: "He has a ton of energy. He has a lot of range, he's very versatile -- and he had his own rock 'n' roll band. Who could not love that? Also, he knows his film history, and he knows his 20th century classical music history -- the Russians in particular."

    L.A. native Elfman, 55, noted, "The music that inspired me in the first place was mostly composed for ballet. My connection to ballet was through music. It was 'Rite of Spring' that turned my world upside down when I was 17. Prokofiev's 'Romeo and Juliet' contains everything one needs to learn film scoring. It has mirth, excitement, fighting, romance, whimsy. Give me Stravinsky, Prokofiev and Shostakovich any day. It gets my blood going.

    "I figured, 'I'll start and then go play music with Twyla and see what she responds to.' I wrote about 14 pieces at the beginning. Her response was more complex than what I imagined. It wasn't, 'This I could dance to, and this I can't.' It was, 'Oh wow, I can take these pieces and put them together. This next to this would be great. This could be a pas de deux' -- stuff I never would have imagined.

    "The first time we hung out, listening to a lot of records," he said, "she happened to be listening to a Scott Joplin opera. I thought, 'I've never written a rag. I'm going to write her a rag.' And I knew I was going to use a lot of percussion. I wanted to end up with five movements. I set myself certain parameters: that every movement would borrow from each other. I tried to create something where, if I had the movements laid out, if they were made of glass and I dropped them, I would take fragments of each of them and mix them up, so that each was borrowing bits from the other."

    Said Tharp: "Danny had a sense of structure that was symphonic. Also, he's used to action -- to seeing and then reinforcing. So he was ideal, from the point of view of supporting action. He was very focused, a delight to work with. He would always take the extra step -- sending you three versions instead of just two."

    "Rabbit and Rogue" is dominated by two male dancers who portray feisty, playfully competitive figures (in the first cast, principals Herman Cornejo as Rabbit and Ethan Stiefel as Rogue). Yet Tharp is adamantly not telling a story. "My only content was a very physical one: the difference between a force directed against itself and another person and force directed together, outward," she said. What she is exploring in the ballet has roots in "Sam and Mary," a study she made a decade ago to perform in her frequent lecture-demonstrations. "It investigated how all rhythm evolves from a single walking step, and how any of the metric structures come from that shift of weight -- right and left.

    "I began to think about right and left, to find a sort of duality in the body. From that came this feeling of the opposition we all have inside ourselves, how we have to work to coordinate that power. That's the physical grounding for the scenario of 'Rabbit and Rogue.' Those two characters evolved from that -- the ballet did not evolve in language."

    In the 20 years since Tharp disbanded her full-time troupe, ABT has been as much home to her as has any company. The connection goes back to the 1976 triumph "Push Comes to Shove," which launched Mikhail Baryshnikov into a brave new world. "Rabbit and Rogue" is the 15th work she has created for ABT.

    Additionally, during the last few seasons, company artistic director Kevin McKenzie has been gradually adding vintage Tharp works to the repertory, giving many of the dancers a grounding in her intricate demands.

    Tharp generally maintains a distance from such productions. But she does catch some of them, and she was aware, for instance, of Cornejo's exemplary performances in ABT's productions of her "Sinatra Suite" and "Upper Room." Stiefel had a success in her 1998 "Known by Heart," in which he was blazingly liberated in a knockabout duet with Susan Jaffe.

    "That ballet was where our relationship was established," Stiefel, 35, said between rehearsals at the Metropolitan Opera House. "Even though the material had been shaped on other dancers, I could make it my own, in terms of the musicality and the intent, the dynamic phrasing. With this one, we went further. I spent two weeks, mano a mano, working with her in the studio in her apartment. She gives you a very clear direction to go in, but she also lets you play."

    Stiefel's sense of who Rogue is "came through not in a literal or direct way but just atmospherically. I start onstage by myself, so I set the tone -- I'm not a dark force but maybe more mischievous. I don't mind creating chaos along the way."

    By contrast with many in the cast, "Rabbit" was the first close encounter with Tharp for soloist Craig Salstein, 25, one of a quartet of dancers who figure throughout the ballet. He had demonstrated impressive Tharpian chops in "Baker's Dozen" as well as "Upper Room," and when Tharp wanted to start on this latest project in July 2007 with some dancers at her home studio, he volunteered eagerly.

    "I would have done the process over and over again," Salstein said. "I can't speak highly enough about her. She was just unbelievable to work with -- the communication, the focus she had on us physically and mentally. She just homed in on exactly what she wanted. She could sense what was going to come out emotionally, not just physically. If you were frustrated, she'd like that. She'd say, 'Keep that feeling in there.' Through her choreography, the individual comes out."

    As the premiere approached, Elfman endured some tense times because of the limited orchestra rehearsal time allotted by ballet economics. But he was able to sit at the Met and enjoy the revelation of seeing his music transformed into dance by Tharp. He was particularly struck by "her sense of geometry and symmetry, and shaping dynamics in a way that's not what one would think in the broader sense -- it was so full of surprises. It was very surreal. It was nothing like what I imagined in my mind's eye -- yet I didn't know what to imagine.

    "I never had a doubt or question about what she was going to do. I just knew that whatever she did, it was going to be wonderful -- at least from my perspective. And she didn't let me down, ever. I saw six out of the seven performances in New York, and at the last one, I was still seeing stuff for the first time."
    I consider a project a success when Thor says he won't buy it
  1. Very interesting. Thanks Dan for linking.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  2. Elfman will score The Wolfman

    http://www.aintitcool.com/node/38048
    • CommentAuthorMatt C
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2008
    Interesting.

    *waits for the others to complain*
    http://unsungfilmscores.blogspot.com/ -- My film/TV/game score review blog
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2008
    Matt C wrote
    Interesting.

    *waits for the others to complain*


    It'll be Sleepy Hollow 2. wink
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorMiya
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2008
    Antineutrino wrote
    Elfman will score The Wolfman

    http://www.aintitcool.com/node/38048

    Welfman?


    shame sorry I just wanted to say a bad pun in English for once
    Labels are for cans, not people. - Anthony Rapp
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2008
    Miya wrote
    Antineutrino wrote
    Elfman will score The Wolfman

    http://www.aintitcool.com/node/38048

    Welfman?


    shame sorry I just wanted to say a bad pun in English for once


    We'll let you off! biggrin wink

    not bad, not bad at all beer
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2008
    Matt C wrote
    Interesting.

    *waits for the others to complain*


    Not me. I liked what he did this year, if it's as good then i'm in wink
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2008
    Sounds like a good assignment. I heard a snippet of the original theme once, and it reminded me of certain passages in the BATMAN theme. Totally accidental, of course, but still somehow appropriate that he should get the assignment.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthormoviescore
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2008 edited
    There is an interesting interview with Guillermo del Toro on http://www.musicfromthemovies.com about the change of composers on Hellboy.

    - - -

    This wasn’t an easy film to score. Marco Beltrami is fantastic, but I was always very curious about working with Danny Elfman and I thought this was the perfect opportunity. The original idea was to hire a British composer and then for whatever reason Danny’s name came forth. Danny had worked many times in England in the past and everything started to develop that way. He’s American, but everything seemed to fall into place with him. I never thought that we could be able to afford him and he would be very difficult to get because he’s always very busy. Kathy Nelson (President of Film Music for Universal Music Group and Universal Pictures) said, “I think we can get him, I know him very well.” At that point I felt we could only benefit if we tried. In any field of filmmaking it’s one of the most rewarding collaborations I’ve ever had in my life; it was extremely rich, extremely generous of him because every time we would talk about things I felt there was a true kinship of spirit. With Marco I have the greatest admiration and I’m a collector of his music, his score for the first movie is brilliant, but his personality would have been perhaps the wrong marriage for this one. I feel very close to him, but I felt a kinship of a different kind. We came through the ranks together, we both went through the Miramax grinder, so I feel like he’s more of a colleague, but with Danny it was different, it was working with somebody that is in some ways more seasoned of a composer.

    - - -

    IMO, Beltrami's Hellboy is one of the finest film scores written in recent years. I really wonder why del Toro says that "his personality would have been perhaps the wrong marriage for this one"... I just don't get it!

    mc
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2008
    bull
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2008
    I get the impression that he just fancied the opportunity of working with Elfman and he's trying to soften the blow to Beltrami, who I guess may have been a bit upset.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2008 edited
    Christodoulides wrote
    bull


    Very to the point! James may well be right too!?

    I wonder who the British composer he considered was? John Scott? Nah! Nobody has that kind of vision! slant
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorMarselus
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2008
    Timmer wrote
    Christodoulides wrote
    bull


    Very to the point! James may well be right too!?

    I wonder who the British composer he considered was? John Scott?

    Now that would have been great! Sadly, I´m afraid we won´t see Scott´s name attached to any big / important film angry crazy
    Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2008 edited
    Marselus wrote
    Timmer wrote
    Christodoulides wrote
    bull


    Very to the point! James may well be right too!?

    I wonder who the British composer he considered was? John Scott?

    Now that would have been great! Sadly, I´m afraid we won´t see Scott´s name attached to any big / important film angry crazy


    Old fashioned. writes all his own music. Conducts all his own music. Unthinkable! slant


    p.s. Did you know John Scott was born in my city, Bristol, and in his early career played wit the likes of Henry Mancini and John Barry, he was principle Sax player on GOLDFINGER.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorelenewton
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2008 edited
    I'm a big big fan of Beltrami's Hellboy (look at my avatar). But I sort of agree with Guillermo here: Marco probably would not fit the second installment very well. I've been listening to the complete edition of Hellboy yesterday, and I heard Beltrami's MAJESTIC theme for the villains. ---If you think about it, this theme actually represent some evil GOD ( the tentacled monster was actually some ancient god, as explained in the movie and comic books), and that's why Beltrami came up with the poweful theme much in the same vein as Goldsmith's Final Conflict. Further, to reflect Hellboy's nature (a devil king turned good), Beltrami's hellboy theme needs to be BIG and MAJESTIC also. The bottom line is, the score to the first movie screams to be compared to "The Final Conflict".

    But the second movie is much similar to "The Nightbreed" (scored by Elfman) than to "The Final Conflict". Aside from the obvious inspiration from "The Nightbreed" for the troll market scene in Hellboy II, there are numersous other quirky elements that remind me of "The Nightbreed". Thus the second movie requires a much "quirkier" approach. And the quirky side of Beltrami that is shown in "BPRD Oompa" is not enough for the second movie IMO.

    Just my two cents, from a huge fan of the Hellboy franchise and Marco Beltrami. And I'm not a fan of Elfman.
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2008
    I agree with del Toro as well...having seen the second film, the whole thing practically begs for an Elfman score. And it works perfectly.
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    •  
      CommentAuthorNautilus
    • CommentTimeSep 1st 2008 edited
    I never expected say something like that but....

    I WANT A COMPLETE REALEASE OF HELLBOY 2!!!! (Where are the music of Hellboy Versus the last Elemental and the music of Hellboy final battle with the bad guy including a heavy metal touch ?? )

    This score is one of the most diverse, dramatic, thematichally rich elfman scores is ages (and for me, the only Elfman I really love )

    Golden Arrmy's theme (I love this Herrman-esque), Hellboy theme and Red and Liz love theme are really great!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeSep 1st 2008
    I don't know, Nautilus...I'm the world's biggest Elfman fan, but after two listen-throughs, I still get dizzy from listening to it. All the bombast that plagued parts of MEN IN BLACK or SPIDERMAN or MARS ATTACKS is here. I think you could have weeded out some material to make it more accesible. So no thanks, I don't want an expansion myself.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 1st 2008
    On a sidenote, nice to see Jordi expanding his canvas wink
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeSep 1st 2008
    Thor wrote
    I don't know, Nautilus...I'm the world's biggest Elfman fan, but after two listen-throughs, I still get dizzy from listening to it. All the bombast that plagued parts of MEN IN BLACK or SPIDERMAN or MARS ATTACKS is here. I think you could have weeded out some material to make it more accesible. So no thanks, I don't want an expansion myself.


    Uh-oh! That instantly turned me of.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeSep 1st 2008
    Christodoulides wrote
    On a sidenote, nice to see Jordi expanding his canvas wink


    Haha, yes. Elfman? Giacchino? Go Jordi! wink
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeSep 1st 2008
    Timmer wrote
    Thor wrote
    I don't know, Nautilus...I'm the world's biggest Elfman fan, but after two listen-throughs, I still get dizzy from listening to it. All the bombast that plagued parts of MEN IN BLACK or SPIDERMAN or MARS ATTACKS is here. I think you could have weeded out some material to make it more accesible. So no thanks, I don't want an expansion myself.


    Uh-oh! That instantly turned me of.


    There are far more emotional/quiet moments in Hellboy 2 than there are in Spiderman, as far as I'm concerned...
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeSep 1st 2008
    Scribe wrote
    Timmer wrote
    Thor wrote
    I don't know, Nautilus...I'm the world's biggest Elfman fan, but after two listen-throughs, I still get dizzy from listening to it. All the bombast that plagued parts of MEN IN BLACK or SPIDERMAN or MARS ATTACKS is here. I think you could have weeded out some material to make it more accesible. So no thanks, I don't want an expansion myself.


    Uh-oh! That instantly turned me of.


    There are far more emotional/quiet moments in Hellboy 2 than there are in Spiderman, as far as I'm concerned...


    Well, I really want to see the film anyway so I can check the score then.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeSep 1st 2008
    Timmer wrote

    Uh-oh! That instantly turned me of.


    Yes. HELLBOY 2 is not for you, Timmer. Steer clear of it! I suggest you check out the fantastic S.O.P. instead (esp. knowing you're a Glass fan). WANTED is pretty cool, too. But definitely S.O.P.
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeSep 1st 2008
    Thor wrote
    Timmer wrote

    Uh-oh! That instantly turned me of.


    Yes. HELLBOY 2 is not for you, Timmer. Steer clear of it! I suggest you check out the fantastic S.O.P. instead (esp. knowing you're a Glass fan). WANTED is pretty cool, too. But definitely S.O.P.


    After D's good words about it I intend to. smile
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 1st 2008 edited
    S.O.P is a must mate, Thor is right. Wanted is a cool listen too, on a wholly different league and mood though. I wasn't too impressed by HELLBOY 2 either, it's not bad, not bad at all after Beltrami's original blast it's a bit out of my tastes.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeSep 1st 2008
    Christodoulides wrote
    S.O.P is a must mate, Thor is right. Wanted is a cool listen too, on a wholly different league and mood though. I wasn't too impressed by HELLBOY 2 either, it's not bad, not bad at all after Beltrami's original blast it's a bit out of my tastes.


    Ehmmm!? You do know you've already told me this? Hence the name ( well, 'initial' ) check. wink
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 1st 2008
    I know mate, just stressing it out again shame
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.