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ELLIOT GOLDENTHAL

General Discussions » ELLIOT GOLDENTHAL (Posts 391 to 420 of 474)

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    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2012
    Steven wrote
    But... they're film scores?


    No, not usually, but I tend to think of soundtracks the same way. That's the way I approach them, anyway. As an extension of concept albums and classical symphonies and instrumental electronic albums etc.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2012
    No, that's what I mean - they're film scores. They are scores to films. Not concept albums. dizzy

    But each to their own I guess!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2012
    Steven wrote
    No, that's what I mean - they're film scores. They are scores to films. Not concept albums. dizzy

    But each to their own I guess!


    Steven, you must be the only person in this forum who isn't intimately familiar with my views on this matter (hence why it's usually joked away). smile

    I don't give a rat's ass about the film when I listen to soundtracks. The music could come from Mars, for all I care.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2012
    http://www.thinkgeek.com/blog/2009/03/2 … -again.jpg
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2012
    Thor wrote
    I don't give a rat's ass about the film when I listen to soundtracks.


    Not ever? Hmm...
  6. Thor wrote
    Steven wrote
    No, that's what I mean - they're film scores. They are scores to films. Not concept albums. dizzy

    But each to their own I guess!


    Steven, you must be the only person in this forum who isn't intimately familiar with my views on this matter (hence why it's usually joked away). smile

    I don't give a rat's ass about the film when I listen to soundtracks. The music could come from Mars, for all I care.


    To me a chronological order isn't really about the film. I often don't give a rat's ass about the film in the end (though my aesthetic views have changed a lot from pure enjoyment to functionality recently and I started to perceive film music in a semiotic way - film music as a sign), but chronological order gives me a lot of insight into the way music is structured and gives me a sense of thematic development. One of the things that fascinate me in film music is how the themes are laid out and what do they mean in the big picture. Of course, one could argue that a film is never scored in a chronological fashion and themes, which are at a constant play in the best scores (this is one of the reasons why one of my favorite John Williams scores is of all things Black Sunday and why do I enjoy the FSM C&C program so much), are usually written first (such is the case of the Hans Zimmer writing process, for example) and then the reels are scored in sequence of them being presented to the composer rather than in the chronological order of the film, but still, a chronological order (not necessarily complete!) gives me more of an insight and sense of narrative and of the way the composer conceived the score, which, as I just said, fascinates me the most about film music, I think!

    It doesn't have to be huge themes, epic sound (which I have walked away from as well myself), but just the intelligence of thematic composer which a great composer (Hans Zimmer, John Williams, James Horner, Jerry Goldsmith and the lot) must have. The lack of intelligence put into the project is one of the reasons why I am not a huge fan of Brian Tyler, to be honest. He's fun and writes for orchestra, but he doesn't put enough thought into the narrative, in my opinion. He's just loud for loudness sake. Kill me everybody, but with notable exceptions (Mummy Returns in his big scores, Forrest Gump and The Contact, too) this is why I am also not a huge fan of Alan Silvestri. I know he did Predator and things like Back to the Future (which I haven't heard yet, any part of the trilogy!), but to be completely honest I think that scores like Tomb Raider II, Beowulf (yes!), Captain America or The A-Team aren't much more intelligent than the token RCP score.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2012
    PawelStroinski wrote
    To me a chronological order isn't really about the film. I often don't give a rat's ass about the film in the end (though my aesthetic views have changed a lot from pure enjoyment to functionality recently and I started to perceive film music in a semiotic way - film music as a sign), but chronological order gives me a lot of insight into the way music is structured and gives me a sense of thematic development. One of the things that fascinate me in film music is how the themes are laid out and what do they mean in the big picture. Of course, one could argue that a film is never scored in a chronological fashion and themes, which are at a constant play in the best scores (this is one of the reasons why one of my favorite John Williams scores is of all things Black Sunday and why do I enjoy the FSM C&C program so much), are usually written first (such is the case of the Hans Zimmer writing process, for example) and then the reels are scored in sequence of them being presented to the composer rather than in the chronological order of the film, but still, a chronological order (not necessarily complete!) gives me more of an insight and sense of narrative and of the way the composer conceived the score, which, as I just said, fascinates me the most about film music, I think!


    That fascinates me too......when I'm watching the actual movie!
    I am extremely serious.
  8. PawelStroinski ,


    Might I try and recommend some Silvestri you might enjoy that isn't a few notches above RC efforts.


    "Holy Man" (no official release)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zmvuZGUqxw


    "Sgt. Bilko" (no official release)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hai4y0TnHI
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9JuudveKHg


    "The Quick and the Dead"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro_zmlI- … re=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTnLh6Qo … re=related


    "The Bodyguard" (no official release)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W8oVo6vWxw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7V7hAUa … re=related
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
  9. I'm interested in this notion of concept albums. What are some of the great concept albums of all time, and how can a film score be reshaped to work as a concept album? Are there good concept albums for bad film scores (e.g. Vangelis perhaps?) and bad concept albums for good film scores? kiss
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  10. justin boggan wrote
    PawelStroinski ,


    Might I try and recommend some Silvestri you might enjoy that isn't a few notches above RC efforts.


    "Holy Man" (no official release)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zmvuZGUqxw


    "Sgt. Bilko" (no official release)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hai4y0TnHI
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9JuudveKHg


    "The Quick and the Dead"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro_zmlI- … re=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTnLh6Qo … re=related


    "The Bodyguard" (no official release)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W8oVo6vWxw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7V7hAUa … re=related


    Not interested in Bilko (silly comedy) and Holy Man (what's that anyway?), but I heard a cue from The Bodyguard (from a compilation, I love the main theme, the action cue - called "Suspect Car something" - was quite Zimmerish, except having proper orchestrations) and I love the end title to Quick and the Dead, even if it sounds totally Morricone. Or maybe because of that.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  11. franz_conrad wrote
    I'm interested in this notion of concept albums. What are some of the great concept albums of all time, and how can a film score be reshaped to work as a concept album? Are there good concept albums for bad film scores (e.g. Vangelis perhaps?) and bad concept albums for good film scores? kiss


    I know you're making fun here, but to be completely honest, I have to come to defense of Vangelis (a rarity with me, really), because I think Blade Runner is a perfect film score.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  12. Ignore the films, their're irrelevent. "Sgt. Bilko" contains two or three muscly aaction cues (what I hoped for from "The A-Team", but didn't get), a patrioctic military theme, some groovy licks for the band of oddball soldiers, other kinds of stuff. Probably only covered two parts in the suites.


    "Holy Man" has a lovely grand ending cue, which is in the suite, and some other percussion pieces.


    Don't think about the movies when figuring which suites to listen to.



    His score for the short film "Two Soldiers" is supposed to be good, too. I've not heard it, though the whole film is on YouTube.
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
  13. Wikipedia's definition of a concept album does remind me of a film music album, C&C or not:

    "In music, a concept album is an album that is "unified by a theme, which can be instrumental, compositional, narrative, or lyrical." Commonly, concept albums tend to incorporate preconceived musical or lyrical ideas rather than being improvised or composed in the studio, with all songs contributing to a single overall theme or unified story. This is in contrast to the practice of an artist or group releasing an album consisting of a number of unconnected (lyrically or otherwise) songs performed by the artist."
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2012
    PawelStroinski wrote
    franz_conrad wrote
    I'm interested in this notion of concept albums. What are some of the great concept albums of all time, and how can a film score be reshaped to work as a concept album? Are there good concept albums for bad film scores (e.g. Vangelis perhaps?) and bad concept albums for good film scores? kiss


    I know you're making fun here, but to be completely honest, I have to come to defense of Vangelis (a rarity with me, really), because I think Blade Runner is a perfect film score.


    I agree! Most of the rest of his are a bit of a joke though, I think.
    http://www.movie-wave.net | http://facebook.com/moviewave
  15. Southall wrote
    PawelStroinski wrote
    franz_conrad wrote
    I'm interested in this notion of concept albums. What are some of the great concept albums of all time, and how can a film score be reshaped to work as a concept album? Are there good concept albums for bad film scores (e.g. Vangelis perhaps?) and bad concept albums for good film scores? kiss


    I know you're making fun here, but to be completely honest, I have to come to defense of Vangelis (a rarity with me, really), because I think Blade Runner is a perfect film score.


    I agree! Most of the rest of his are a bit of a joke though, I think.


    Forgive me Pawel. I just listened to 1492 yesterday. wink Bladerunner is indeed a fine film score, although the album and the score are very different things in that case.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2012 edited
    From my point of view, for most scores, shuffling a few tracks doesn't make it a "concept" album - it just makes it a film score with a few shuffled tracks. It's still a film score. Though I admit some scores do lend themselves to this "concept" approach, something like Inception (to some degree).

    Also there are many scores I listen to without having seen the film and without caring to see the film, but I still care about the process of scoring. A lot of the time I'm in it for the narrative, so even if I don't plan to see the film, I still care about how the score works. Like Pawel (and many others I imagine), I like to hear the thematic development and the narrative throughout the score -- that's what most scores are all about! Not appreciating or enjoying that aspect when listening to it on album just seems batshit mental to me.

    I was just genuinely curious as to why you were so opposed to film order albums Thor, and apparently quite fervently so! (Which I'm still not entirely sure about, but it's interesting nonetheless. dizzy )
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2012 edited
    Steven wrote
    From my point of view, for most scores, shuffling a few tracks doesn't make it a "concept" album - it just makes it a film score with a few shuffled tracks. It's still a film score. Though I admit some scores do lend themselves to this "concept" approach, something like Inception (to some degree).

    Also there are many scores I listen to without having seen the film and without caring to see the film, but I still care about the process of scoring. A lot of the time I'm in it for the narrative, so even if I don't plan to see the film, I still care about how the score works. Like Pawel (and many others I imagine), I like to hear the thematic development and the narrative throughout the score -- that's what most scores are all about! Not appreciating or enjoying that aspect when listening to it on album just seems batshit mental to me.
    I was just genuinely curious as to why you were so opposed to film order albums Thor, and apparently quite fervently so! (Which I'm still not entirely sure about, but it's interesting nonetheless. dizzy )


    I'm just fervent about it because I'm in the minority and often feel marginalized, while my approach is -- to me -- the most natural thing in the world, and yours is the odd one out. I like to have a sort of musical narrative too, but not necessarily the film's. To me, the film's music is just 'raw material' that needs to be shaped and adapted to a new medium when you take it out of the film. Preferably follow the logic of 'concept albums' and the like, to make for a better standalone experience. Pretending it's still film music when there is no film to accompany doesn't work for me. It becomes chaotic, schizophrenic, frustrating, grating unless you do something with the arrangement.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2012 edited
    There's no need to pretend it's film music; it IS film music! biggrin

    But fair enough. I see where you're coming from I think, I just find it a bit strange you're so... committed about it. But, again, each to their own!
  19. "Every cause needs a champion. Every champion needs an enemy. Every enemy needs a collection of music stored in digipaks and cardboard slipcases as punishment for being on the wrong side of history."
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2012
    franz_conrad wrote
    "Every cause needs a champion. Every champion needs an enemy. Every enemy needs a collection of music stored in digipaks and cardboard slipcases as punishment for being on the wrong side of history."


    Quite so.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeFeb 9th 2012 edited
    Interesting information for fans of Goldenthal's work for Final Fantasy!

    Elliot Goldenthal's Final Fantasy
    A Discussion on Mixed Harmonic and Orchestration techniques applied to film music

    My name is Eneko vadillo, film composer and scholar.

    The edition of a new publication that may be of interest for all film composers and film music lovers in general. Recently, a German based publishing company has published a research study on Elliot Goldenthal´s Final Fantasy score. It is a very in-depth analysis with accurate transcriptions and some examples from the score. I do analyze all aspects of the score including the psychological role of timbre, the orchestration, contemporary techniques and so on.

    It has been publishehd by LAMPBERT (https://www.lap-publishing.com/ ) and can be purchased on amazon and similar online shows and Lampbert.

    I hope you find of interest this news and I hope as welll you could share this info with your friends and contacts in general.
    Kazoo
  22. But have you seen the price?!
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthoreniat
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2012
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    But have you seen the price?!


    There's one listed as 'used - like new' for $59! tongue
    •  
      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2012
    Welcome to the forum eniat!
    Kazoo
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2012
    My interview with Elliot Goldenthal:

    http://montages.no/2012/06/pauseprat-me … oldenthal/

    He says GRENDEL is going to be released next year!
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2012
    I have heard a ...erm...preview copy.
    It is very much, incredibly, insanely, indubitably NOT my cup of tea!
    (Massively jarring avant-garde atonality galore).
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2012
    Martijn wrote
    I have heard a ...erm...preview copy.
    It is very much, incredibly, insanely, indubitably NOT my cup of tea!
    (Massively jarring avant-garde atonality galore).


    I have that too, and I've listened to it maybe once. I refuse to listen to it much, since the sound is so crappy. It's challenging, sure (as are most contemporary operas), but I love the Goldenthalisms in there. I can't wait to hear it in a proper format.
    I am extremely serious.
  28. Martijn wrote
    I have heard a ...erm...preview copy.
    It is very much, incredibly, insanely, indubitably NOT my cup of tea!
    (Massively jarring avant-garde atonality galore).

    Might be worth hearing!
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2012
    Here's a new 1-hour program on Elliot, with music clips:

    http://www.prx.org/pieces/84948-a-conve … U.facebook

    It strikes me that he speaks far quicker and more fluidly in this phone interview than he ever did in my two in-the-flesh audio interviews with him....hmmm.

    Most of the questions and answers are pretty standard for us hardcore Goldenthal nuts, but a few interesting tidbits nonetheless, like the one about the ballet "Variations on Early Glimpses", which he wrote at age 16!

    Happy listening.
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2012
    I'll give a listen later smile
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt

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