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THOMAS NEWMAN

General Discussions » THOMAS NEWMAN (Posts 1081 to 1110 of 1265)

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    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2015 edited
    Bregt wrote
    Scribe probably hasn't heard:

    I've heard the first two. Shawshank is way too full of meandering drama tones and Little Women is a huge exception compared to the majority of Newman scores I've sampled. I've probably heard the wrong ones but the ratio of "boring" to "good" scores (my opinion only) was not favorable for me exploring more of his back catalog. I guess I should try those others though.

    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    That's an enormously sweeping and unfair stereotype. I'd say "lalala quirky" describes maybe a fifth of his scores, if even that.


    Let's see. I have Alice In Wonderland (quirkiness hell), Batman (technically excellent symphony but not a single cue I can connect to emotionally, probably due to the, ahem, "quirkiness" of the movie), Big Fish (it's alright), Black Beauty (excellent and if more Elfmans were like this I would be a completist of his) Charlie and the Pedophile Factory (I don't even remember what this sounds like but it's probably quirky) Charlotte's Web (one of my all-time favorites), Edward Scissorhands (beautiful but too creepy for excessive consumption), Epic (boring), Frankenweenie (quirky AND boring) Hellboy II (enjoyable with a few to-die-for cues), Meet The Robinsons (wouldn't mind more in this vein), Oz the Great and Powerful (meh), Real Steel (okay, but Zimmer has 20 guys who can produce this score in their sleep) Spider-Man 2 (decent but somehow doesn't stick in my memory very well), The Wolfman (boring) and Wanted (boring except for excellent main theme). I also have Music for a Darkened Theater Volume 2 and nothing on there made me want to collect any more of those scores. There's also the odd problem that nearly all of his scores sound like they were recorded inside a cardboard box, or something similarly life-sucking. Batman not included.

    I recognize most of these descriptions are oversimplified and probably totally ridiculous to most of you. I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me. But that is why I don't rush to collect new Elfmans unless someone in a now playing thread somewhere says they're unusually good. (50 Shades, for example, I have queued to listen to soon). When half of the scores I've collected (and nearly all of those I purchased physical albums of, as opposed to "other" means of obtainment), are music I wouldn't care if I never listened to again, it doesn't make me excited to read a composer's thread every day. If he had more Black Beautys and Charlotte's Webs I would feel differently.
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2015
    How about SOMMERSBY Matt? "Quirky" Elfman isn't my thing either bar the odd exception here and there but SOMMERSBY is one of my all time favourite scores, if you've not heard it I think you should seek it out.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  3. You need to listen to Sommersby ASAP. It's very much in the vein of those two you love. Also, his Planet of the Apes is a pretty uniquely brutal and aggressive score in his oeuvre. Not everyone likes it, but I really do (actually, it's my favorite of that franchise in any of its cycles).
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2015
    I have heard the Sommersby tracks on Music for a Darkened Theater and enjoyed them but didn't figure the whole score worth obtaining, especially since at the time I was considering it, it was totally out of print. Thanks for the suggestion though, I might give it another chance.
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2015 edited
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Scribe wrote
    No. Elfman is too "lalala quirky"* except for a few isolated scores

    That's an enormously sweeping and unfair stereotype. I'd say "lalala quirky" describes maybe a fifth of his scores, if even that.


    ...Plus, he pretty much abandoned it in the early 90s.

    Scribe, 75% of your list is rather underwhelming Elfman that I have issues with too. Brilliant scores in the last 10 years you should check out include STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE, THE UNKNOWN KNOWN, RESTLESS, PROMISED LAND, MILK and the Serenada Schizophrana.

    Or -- since you like BLACK BEAUTY -- then SOMMERSBY, FAMILY MAN, BATMAN RETURNS. Or if you want electronic and/or bluesy, try WISDOM and MIDNIGHT RUN, respectively.
    I am extremely serious.
  6. Edmund Meinerts wrote
    It's been a very, very long time since Spielberg said that about Zimmer (wasn't it around the time of Crimson Tide, even? That was like 1995, wasn't it?). The latter's career has, to put it mildly, taken a few turns since then - maybe whatever attracted Spielberg to Zimmer's music isn't as evident in his current work. I can kind of empathize with that.


    I remember indeed it was around and possibly through Crimson Tide that Spielberg was fond of Zimmer's music. Again sad we won't hear the maestro at work here, but let's hope he's back in business soon.

    Gonna be weird and a bit thrilling (considering the choice of Thomas Newman) though to hear not a John Williams score in a Spielberg film
    waaaaaahhhhhhhh!!! Where's my nut? arrrghhhhhhh
  7. Thomas Glorieux wrote
    Gonna be weird and a bit thrilling...

    This is something that I have never "got" with film music: the "wetting-of-the-pants" responses to partnerships between composer and director. Save for perhaps Herrmann/Hitchcock, it's just not something that enters my head when anticipating a composer's new work.

    Yes, you look forward to a composer's next score and perhaps a director's certain style fits with a specific composer's own style.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2015 edited
    Thor wrote
    ...Plus, he pretty much abandoned it in the early 90s.


    Explain the existence of Frankeweenie and Alice then tongue

    I am not trying say he is a bad composer or that there is anything wrong with him. There is just nothing in his music that personally attracts me outside a handful of cues. And an overabundance of elements that make me emotionally uncomfortable. He's just not a kindred spirit to me...something in his musical voice puts me off. In the same way that someone like Mark McKenzie definitely is a kindred spirit...the man couldn't write something that I didn't relate to even if he tried.
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2015
    Elfman and Newman are both highly distinctive and at times highly quirky composers. It's no surprise if someone just can't connect to their styles. Fortunately there are plenty of other fish in the sea.
    http://www.movie-wave.net | http://facebook.com/moviewave
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2015
    Southall wrote
    Elfman and Newman are both highly distinctive and at times highly quirky composers. It's no surprise if someone just can't connect to their styles. Fortunately there are plenty of other fish in the sea.


    So true! It goes without saying that there are scores we all agree on with our love of them but somewhere along the line we all diverge on certain tastes and even more confoundingly we won't get it when someone says they like score A but don't like score B which sounds very similar. Us score fans are full of conundrums.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2015
    Scribe wrote
    Thor wrote
    ...Plus, he pretty much abandoned it in the early 90s.


    Explain the existence of Frankeweenie and Alice then tongue

    I am not trying say he is a bad composer or that there is anything wrong with him. There is just nothing in his music that personally attracts me outside a handful of cues. And an overabundance of elements that make me emotionally uncomfortable. He's just not a kindred spirit to me...something in his musical voice puts me off. In the same way that someone like Mark McKenzie definitely is a kindred spirit...the man couldn't write something that I didn't relate to even if he tried.


    Fair enough. We all have our musical 'soul mates'. Elfman has always been one of mine. McKenzie not so much, even though I enjoy some of his scores (mostly on a pastiche level).
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2015
    I see your subtle jibe and I accept it as fitting in context wink
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2015
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2015 edited
    Southall wrote
    Pastiche my arse.


    More along the lines of my out-of-context reaction to that description. In line with my comments about Elfman I assume, in good faith, that his statement about McKenzie was equally subject to personal taste and not standing in judgement of the composer in a general sense...or so I hope...
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
  15. As a Thomas Newman fan, this puts me over the moon. I'm excited to hear his take on a Spielberg film.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2015
    Southall wrote
    Pastiche my arse.


    Nothing wrong with pastiche. I can get equal pleasure (sometimes more) from that than a super-original composer all the time. It takes enormous amount of skill to compose good pastiche.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2015 edited
    Who exactly is McKenzie's music a pastiche of, so that I may go listen to this composer??
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2015 edited
    More generally a kind of neo-romantic style. He's using conventions that are (usually) very likeable upon first listening, unless you 'demand' originality and a striking musical personality at all costs (I know plenty who do).
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2015
    But if he's not imitating the style of any particular composer, at least partially, how can you call it a pastiche? Taking existing musical conventions and combining them in ways that nobody has ever done before is the very definition of originality!

    "pastiche" - noun - "an artistic work in a style that imitates that of another work, artist, or period."

    The only neo-romantic composer I'm aware of being familiar with is Vaughan Williams and there are a ton of elements to McKenzie's voice that you would never hear in Vaughan Williams. So, I object from a factual perspective that McKenzie's music is a pastiche of anything. But I do not mean to hold you to being strictly literal with your use of the word "pastiche" (God forbid anyone hold ME to strictly literal interpretations of my words)....if anything I just want you to point me in the direction of more music that sounds like his wink
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2015
    Scribe wrote
    But if he's not imitating the style of any particular composer, at least partially, how can you call it a pastiche? Taking existing musical conventions and combining them in ways that nobody has ever done before is the very definition of originality!

    "pastiche" - noun - "an artistic work in a style that imitates that of another work, artist, or period."


    You said it -- "period"! It doesn't have to be specific composers. The neo-romantic style is that which all film music hails from (first molded by the stylings of Wagner, Mahler, Strauss and so on).
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2015 edited
    Thor wrote
    You said it -- "period"! It doesn't have to be specific composers. The neo-romantic style is that which all film music hails from (first molded by the stylings of Wagner, Mahler, Strauss and so on).


    But his music doesn't sound like any of those composers! It cannot be a pastiche of a period if none of the composers of that period wrote music that sounds the same. Just because he happens to use certain similar elements doesn't make his music a pastiche of those composers any more than Zimmer using electronics makes him a pastiche of Williams. The similarities are not that great, or if they are, there are some neo-romantic composers I seriously need to check out. But your lack of mentioning a specific composer makes me rather doubt it. By the logic you are using, how is ALL film music not a pastiche?
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2015 edited
    I recommend you look up extensive definitions of 'pastiche' online, Scribe, as I'm not going to have a long semantics debate with you in this Newman thread (we're far enough off-topic already). But again, I repeat that pastiche can be of general styles and periods, not only specific composers.

    For me, McKenzie falls into the same group as John Debney, Joel McNeely, Mike Verta etc. Composers who are well-versed in what they do, and write great orchestral music (often with hummable themes and melodies), but who will never be quite original enough to qualify as a top favourite of mine. Not enough of an individual voice. So I enjoy their music as pastiche of various kinds (which can be great in itself) more than I have some sort of personal connection to them (like you do in this case).
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2015 edited
    I feel like I have a fairly firm grasp on the idea of "pastiche". The difference is, with Debney and McNeely, one can clearly point to the music they are "pastiche"-ing. Not so with McKenzie. It sounds like you are not familiar enough with his work to recognize his unique voice. Which is fine. But I will maintain that a work cannot be a pastiche of an era if it is not particularly similar to anything that was written in that era, which McKenzie's isn't, or surely you would have named at least one specific composer or work by now (you can say "era" all you want, eras are still represented by composers, the time period itself doesn't write music), and surely I would have noticed comparisons made from McKenzie's work to certain classical composers like we continuously do with Horner et all because they are directly imitating specific classical composers and works. I don't know, maybe there is a language or cultural gap here, but I have listened to enough McKenzie to know he has a specific, unique musical voice with elements I have never heard from any other composer. Unfortunately my musical education is not sufficient for me to elucidate these elements, but I can state with 100% confidence that McKenzie does not stylistically imitate any existing work to the same degree that McNeely does with Williams and Debney does of whichever temp he has been asked to imitate. Again, unless I have somehow gone my whole life without hearing the music McKenzie is "pastiche-ing," in which case, someone please clue me in!

    Now, I will stop before we keep going in circles and/or I keep displaying my ignorance. wink
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2015 edited
    I told you, I won't do a semantics discussion with you.

    Now, it is true I might not be as familiar with his work as you are, but I've heard a fair amount to draw an evaluation, I think. I generally like what I hear -- DURANGO is a personal favourite, and recently THE GREATEST MIRACLE as well -- but you won't find me listening to his music and saying "oh, what he did there is SO McKenzie". If you -- who are into his work more than I am -- can point me in the direction of anything specific that defines him (beyond generic descriptions like 'nice melodies' etc.), I'm all ears. Preferably in the McKenzie thread.

    But in general, I'm of the opinion that if you really have to go DEEP into something to find the defining moments, it's not defining enough. Hence my grouping of McKenzie with Debney, McNeely et.al.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2015 edited
    face-palm-mt

    If there is one word in the English (or French) dictionary that I HATE the most it's the word pastiche. Nails on a fucking chalk board. suicide It's up there with words like 'bro' and 'schedule' (it's ske-jual not shej-ual, dammit!). Now, I know what pastiche means (just typing it irritates the fuck out of me crazy ) but like I said during my FIVE AWESOME COMPOSERS THAT NEED TO BE SCORING HOLLYWOOD FILMS show "Pastiche is a ugly sounding word that is used often by critics as a negative connotation."

    But if you are going to use that word you better back it up with some clear examples and not just generalize about a composer sounding like a particular 19th century art form.

    As for McKenzie... he's got his own voice or at least his own "isms" for the lack of a better word. And if you haven't heard enough of his music then listen to my Mark McKenzie Special

    But like Verta said about finding your own musical voice... "it's next to irrelevant."

    -Erik-

    PS - Excellent posts, Scribe! beer
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  26. Who the hell is Mike Verta?
    Movie Music UK http://www.moviemusicuk.us
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2015
    Jon Broxton wrote
    Who the hell is Mike Verta?


    Have a listen, Jon

    Or check out his web site. www.mikeverta.com

    Wicked talented!

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  28. Erik Woods wrote
    face-palm-mt

    If there is one word in the English (or French) dictionary that I HATE the most it's the word pastiche. Nails on a fucking chalk board. suicide It's up there with words like 'bro' and 'schedule' (it's ske-jual not shej-ual, dammit!). Now, I know what pastiche means (just typing it irritates the fuck out of me crazy ) but like I said during my FIVE AWESOME COMPOSERS THAT NEED TO BE SCORING HOLLYWOOD FILMS show "Pastiche is a ugly sounding word that is used often by critics as a negative connotation."

    But if you are going to use that word you better back it up with some clear examples and not just generalize about a composer sounding like a particular 19th century art form.

    As for McKenzie... he's got his own voice or at least his own "isms" for the lack of a better word. And if you haven't heard enough of his music then listen to my Mark McKenzie Special

    But like Verta said about finding your own musical voice... "it's next to irrelevant."

    -Erik-

    PS - Excellent posts, Scribe! beer


    If they are using pastiche in a negative meaning, they don't really know what pastiche is. Pastiche is, simply, "a serious parody", self-consciously using a certain style/convention, but unlike parody, which wants to ridicule the convention. Pastiche is often serious in tone, it's an exercise in style to an extent... sometimes a homage.

    Pastiche is meant to be unoriginal, but it's so self-conscious and on purpose that I can't fathom why anyone would give that word a negative meaning. Commando is a pastiche, for example.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2015
    I don't find the word pastiche insulting at all. I prefer the word homage but that is more applicable to, for example, George Clinton's Austin Powers scores which purposely reference the likes of John Barry and Henry Mancini.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2015
    It's an 'iky' sounding word that I find people use as a dig against a composers work. It's also a simple word to use without having to go into any sort of detail as to why someones work is reminiscent of another's work or a particular style.

    Anyway, it's an irritating word. Even saying it... oh fuck, I want to punch someone right in the mouth! crazy

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!

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