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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2009
    shocked

    Yikes. That's harrowing stuff. Like the Fritzl case last year, it often amazes me how the atrocities of humanbeings in real life far supersede what even the craziest horror writer or filmmaker may think up in his imagination.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2009
    Who'd want to imagine something like that? That's one of the most harrowing stories I've ever heard.
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      CommentAuthorDemonStar
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2009
    Strict law enforcement and most importantly weeding out of corrupt authorities would be the first necessary step IMO. Don't let anyone get away with anything like that!
  1. Oh yes, that's the first thing. Second thing is teaching the children to avoid candy-giving people, unless they are supervised by their mothers.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009
    Interesting how society moved on from damning homosexual people to eternal hell into accepting it as a sexual preference and deeming it as a perfectly ok and acceptable phenomenon, right, whatever you want to call it. Maybe pedophiles united (or something, see South Park for more giggles on the matter) might some day manage to pass it as such, a hormonal disorder or something which they can't help.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  2. They are trying to. I think pedophiles managed to form a political party in Netherlands. Not sure of their results in elections though.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009
    Save one thing mate, children
    listen to more classical music!
  3. beer
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009 edited
    Christodoulides wrote
    Interesting how society moved on from damning homosexual people to eternal hell into accepting it as a sexual preference and deeming it as a perfectly ok and acceptable phenomenon, right, whatever you want to call it. Maybe pedophiles united (or something, see South Park for more giggles on the matter) might some day manage to pass it as such, a hormonal disorder or something which they can't help.


    The stark and obvious difference between homosexuality and pedophilia is one necessarily causes harm and the other doesn't. Just the same as heterosexuality and pedophilia. There's absolutely no justification in having a problem with homosexuality, but there certainly is for pedophilia.
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009
    If two consenting want to engage in certain behavior that is one thing. Children are a different story.
    Thomas
    listen to more classical music!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009
    Here, here Tom & Steven beer
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009
    PawelStroinski wrote
    They are trying to. I think pedophiles managed to form a political party in Netherlands. Not sure of their results in elections though.


    See? My point exactly; i won't go into expanding my thoughts on this one, as some are surely going to be shocked if i talked on how and why i consider homosexuality and pedophilia pretty much in the same league, but still i giggle when i see the (logical otherwise) shock and awe of people when it comes to pedophilia whilst exactly the same sentiments were carried against homosexual people in the past years, not so long ago really. And esp. when one is considered a homophobic regressive dude when expressing negativity on homosexuality whilst his very same sentiments when carried on pedophilia would be greeted with cheers and agreements biggrin
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009
    We agree to disagree mate. Children is where I draw the line and I have 0 tolerance for that form of behavior.
    Thomas
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009
    I am not pro either situation, Tom. Don't misunderstand what i said smile
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009
    Christodoulides wrote
    PawelStroinski wrote
    They are trying to. I think pedophiles managed to form a political party in Netherlands. Not sure of their results in elections though.


    See? My point exactly; i won't go into expanding my thoughts on this one, as some are surely going to be shocked if i talked on how and why i consider homosexuality and pedophilia pretty much in the same league, but still i giggle when i see the (logical otherwise) shock and awe of people when it comes to pedophilia whilst exactly the same sentiments were carried against homosexual people in the past years, not so long ago really. And esp. when one is considered a homophobic regressive dude when expressing negativity on homosexuality whilst his very same sentiments when carried on pedophilia would be greeted with cheers and agreements biggrin


    That's a horribly backward way of thinking, and frankly ignorant. Pedophilia and homosexuality aren't comparable in the sense you've described. One causes harm because it preys on an UNCONSENTING individuals; the other has just the same implications as heterosexuality, the only difference is relationships are formed with same-sex individuals.

    I'm never overly-politically correct about these things, I've no doubt made many a joke about gays. I'm a student. But I never mean it in a malicious or political way. I'd be the first one to fight for equal rights and treatment of homosexuals! There is, as I've said, absolutely NO justification whatsoever for being anti-gay. Anti-gayness is born out of ignorance and intolerance only, never logic or justifiable reasoning.

    You've lost a lot of respect from me D, you really have. sad
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009 edited
    Well, ok, if these are your measures for respect towards other people, what can i say?

    And i never expanded on these things so don't rush to form your final opinion, i am rather a general observer on the thing and certainly not anti-anyone, esp. in real life, away from forums where i too have and still am working with homosexual people as well; i won't though 'cause (obviously rolleyes ) some people are very touchy about this stuff, and i know it from previous experiences. Plus, not my no.1 topic of discussion in the interest scale i am afraid.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009
    Christodoulides wrote
    I am not pro either situation, Tom. Don't misunderstand what i said smile


    I'm glad you don't approve
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009
    Paedophilia, where an adult generally manipulates or forces a child into very real traumatic damage to satisfy his own personal lust is in NO way AT ALL comparable with two consenting adults having a relationship.

    The fact that they were in the past equated was solely because the church damned everything that was not a "functional" man-woman relationship (i.e. to produce children). NOT because they are comparable sexual preferences in any other sense.

    Anyone who in this day and age still thinks so truly subscribes to a very myopic and backwards way of thinking. That one is not overly enamoured of a -rather Hollywoodised- "gay lifestyle" as propagated by the media and small groups of activists (and having very little to do with homosexual relationships in general that feature in fact very few incredibly muscled men dancing around in public in small plastic pink slips singing "It's Raining Men") is a very poor ground to start equating it to criminal and morally offensive sexual abuse.

    Nothing to do with "political correctness", and everything with respect for one's fellow man.
    In sexual and relational matters it's very simple: if there's consent, it's OK.
    If there's not, it's not.

    Surely that isn't such a hard basic rule to comprehend.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009
    PawelStroinski wrote
    I think pedophiles managed to form a political party in Netherlands.


    They tried.
    They got a grand total of eighteen signatures.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009
    Christodoulides wrote
    Maybe pedophiles united (or something, see South Park for more giggles on the matter) might some day manage to pass it as such, a hormonal disorder or something which they can't help.


    I'm perfectly open to that option.

    In fact, I'm pretty convinced it's a disorder. And one that should be treated accordingly.

    I for one would be ecstatic if paedophiles, rather than being locked up and re-offending about the minute they get out (which is what paedophiles tend to do), would either voluntarily or forced through the courts to be subjected to chemical castration (which seem at this time to be the only treatment that actually stops them from their predatory lusts).
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009
    Well, i am afraid that one day they'll pass their "right" to do that legally, (they are in hormonal disorder, what can they do?) if they find a kid who's willing to admit they like the pedophile and have no objection to have any kind of sexual contacts with him whatsoever; you know, sign something saying that, announcing they're in love with the uncle and bam, problem out the window.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009 edited
    Surely you can see how unreasonable that assumption is?
    Psychopathology is an accepted psychiatric condition as well, but do you seriously think that -say- serial killing is one day going to become legal simply because there is a physical explanation?

    And note that the simple act of consenst isn't enough.
    It needs to be a consenst between discerning adults.
    So a five year old consenting to a sexual relationship with an adult (something that has happened often in such predatory relationships: the paedophile will elicit such comments from the child to soothe his own conscience) will NOT effect a proper, valid and equal relationship in the eyes of the law (and morality).
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009
    Well, they might raise the age limits; say 12+. And it's a matter of sexual preference, as they're going to present it, not killing. I am just saying, the stupidity of the world nowadays has no limits.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009
    Yes, I agree: those age limit discussions are being held, and I for one am exceedingly weary of them. I'm not unhappy having something like a set age limit of -say- 14 if the age difference is no more than 4 years between partners and -say- 18 if it is more than 10 years of difference.
    Any connection exceeding those boundaries would then have to be judged on a case to case basis by a court.

    It's hardly ideal, but then what is in any such intense conflict between free will, personal choices, morality and the law?
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009 edited
    Christodoulides wrote
    Well, ok, if these are your measures for respect towards other people, what can i say?


    If you believe that pedophilia and homosexuality are two sides of the same coin, then I can assure you it is a perfectly good way to measure respect towards people. I measure respect by someone's ability to understand things and make ethical and reasonable points of view from that point on. Your point of view, as much am I'm sure you hold it in high regard, is not ethical or particularly reasonable. It's based on unreasonable assumptions and conclusions. Unless I have got the wrong end of the stick and you would like to elaborate on exactly what you mean, I'd be happy to listen.

    And i never expanded on these things so don't rush to form your final opinion, i am rather a general observer on the thing and certainly not anti-anyone, esp. in real life, away from forums where i too have and still am working with homosexual people as well; i won't though 'cause (obviously rolleyes ) some people are very touchy about this stuff, and i know it from previous experiences. Plus, not my no.1 topic of discussion in the interest scale i am afraid.


    I'm not touchy about it, and I'm not angry. I'm not gonna print out a picture of your face and then stick it to a dart board or anything! I'm just very disappointed this is the way you view sexuality and its many different forms. Disappointing because it shows a lack of understanding in a few areas. Let me emphasise Martijn's point:

    Nothing to do with "political correctness", and everything with respect for one's fellow man.
    In sexual and relational matters it's very simple: if there's consent, it's OK.
    If there's not, it's not.

    Surely that isn't such a hard basic rule to comprehend.


    That is reasonable. That is ethical. You simply cannot compare homosexuality to pedophilia as though they were two sides to the same coin. You cannot condemn homosexuality in the same way you can with pedophilia: That's my point, and I hope one day it's one can you understand.
  4. Martijn wrote
    PawelStroinski wrote
    I think pedophiles managed to form a political party in Netherlands.


    They tried.
    They got a grand total of eighteen signatures.


    How many is demanded in general?
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009
    Steven, if you're so angry on people who don't accept others 'cause of their otherness and different point of views, then it seems hypocritical to me, if you get equally angry on someone who doesn't share your point of view or doesn't set themselves pro the same things you do; just relax, nobody is beating gays with a stick to the head. You can always also accept that not everyone is "p.c." or anything you want to call it.

    I said i am rather a general observer, and i deal with people of all kinds every day (you know, musicians, artists? they hold all the kind of characters smile wink ) but that doesn't mean i'll have to wet my panties or parade for anyone's "rights" or anything or beat up and curse anyone around me who isn't pro-homosexuality or anything. Everyone is entitled to their own rights and opinions and i don't have a problem with either extremes, as long as they're not getting in my fields.

    I have my own life to deal with and i don't believe they're getting any oppressions anymore, at least in the civilized world where you and me currently live in. I think the whole thing is overblown and the world has much serious stuff to deal with as we speak.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009
    Christodoulides wrote
    Steven, if you're so angry on people who don't accept others 'cause of their otherness and different point of views, then it seems hypocritical to me, if you get equally angry on someone who doesn't share your point of view or doesn't set themselves pro the same things you do; just relax, nobody is beating gays with a stick to the head. You can always also accept that not everyone is "p.c." or anything you want to call it.


    If you read carefully, I said I WASN'T angry. wink

    And I am not PC either. This just isn't an issue of PCness. This is an issue of ethics.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009 edited
    I do understand (though not follow) your Not In My BackYard stance, D.
    It's not one I would prefer, but it certainly isn't the worst one to take.
    However...
    Christodoulides wrote
    i don't believe they're getting any oppressions anymore, at least in the civilized world where you and me currently live in. I think the whole thing is overblown and the world has much serious stuff to deal with as we speak.

    Sadly with the advent of fundamentalism all over the globe and on a huge scale, that simply doesn't hold true. Even in the so-called "gay capital" (I do dislike the epithet) of the world, Amsterdam, homosexual couples are being beaten up and harassed for nothing. For walking hand in hand. For looking not straight enough.

    Intolerance is on the rise immensely since the eighties.
    There's preachers of every religion of all denominations calling for homosexuals to be killed, thrown head-first off tall buildings. In our civilised world.
    And I'm not even talking about Russia (where the police will hammer your head in if you're gay) or Saudi Arabia (where you'll be hung as an affront to Allah).
    This is The Netherlands I'm talking about.

    This is serious stuff to deal with.
    You may elect not to do so, and that is your prerogative.
    But that doesn't make the very real issue any less real or acute.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2009
    Same stuff. Pc and ethics, all inter-weaved and mixed, very thin limits, not completely giving an ass mate; i always had and will always have my own set of rules and ethics smile
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.