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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2009
    sdtom wrote
    The variables are endless. People see color in a different way. I don't like red but you do. I like white and you don't. I don't say it is impossible but I will say it won't happen in my lifetime.
    Thomas


    Be that as it may, that's not the point of the question.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2009 edited
    Steven wrote
    Martijn wrote
    Without trying to shortcircuit an interesting discussion, I think that particular question actually has been pretty definitively settled.


    Yeah, really can't be arsed to read or interpret that. What's your Point of View™ in a few a words?


    Hey, I only referenced because you came up with Data, and the whole episode tries to establish his humanity in court. slant

    Anyway.
    My point of view: I'm OK with it.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2009
    biggrin

    Cool.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2009 edited
    Martijn wrote
    Steven wrote
    Martijn wrote
    Without trying to shortcircuit an interesting discussion, I think that particular question actually has been pretty definitively settled.


    Yeah, really can't be arsed to read or interpret that. What's your Point of View™ in a few a words?


    Hey, I only referenced because you came up with Data, and the whole episode tries to establish his humanity in court. slant


    Ah, you see I'll read it now. I just wanted to know your point of view first. wink

    Sorry, didn't mean to sound like a dick. I just wanted to know your POV before I read it. That's all I'm interested in here; people's point of views.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2009 edited
    I'm a big believer in "if it looks like a duck. walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..."
    Even for us humans there's no ultimate standard...how could we impose one on other species?
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2009 edited
    I agree. Coming back to the 'sum of all our parts' argument, unless there's some quantitative piece of evidence that proves otherwise, a soul particle (wink), I'll continue to assume that this is the case. Build a robot to be, act and feel human, to my mind it IS human - or alive I should say. (But others might and will probably disagree, which is what I'm very much interested in.)
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2009
    Steven wrote
    Build a robot to be, act and feel human, to my mind it IS human.


    Yup. I'd agree.
    And I'd also agree with anyone not finding it human.

    Because, like I said, there IS no standard.
    It's all about what we feel.
    Think about it.
    We all take it for granted, but nobody is able to definitively define humanity.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2009
    Yeah, I edited my post just before you posted that!
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2009
    Steven wrote
    (But others might and will probably disagree, which is what I'm very much interested in.)

    I doubt there's a coherent argument to be made.
    Well, not one that would open the floodgates that would suggest similar arguments being able to be brought forth against women, negroes, babies, extra-terrestrial life, et cetera.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2009
    I doubt there's a coherent argument to be made.


    True, but I'm still interested to hear the other side of the argument if anyone from that camp is willing to chip in. I'm sure many if not all of our theists (and deists) amongst us will disagree with our point of view, or at least put it at a different slant and say, for example, a soul is 'injected' into a being or a robot that achieves consciousness. (Or whatever.)
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2009
    Imbue a creation with the spark of life?
    That would make us Gods...or monsters. frank
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2009
    Not necessarily us 'injecting' this soul, but "God" waking up from his slumber realising a human had built her own lifeform, 'Honey, I've gotta go to work. Someone has had the nerve to create life and I've gotta go and give the darn thing a soul!'

    Being God's advocate is fun.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2009
    I meant us injecting a soul into our creations.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2009 edited
    I know. That's why I gave an alternative by saying God waking up from his slumber. My point is perhaps as soon as a lifeform complex enough to be conscious suddenly receives a "soul" from God. I really am playing God's advocate to an extreme degree here.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2009
    That would lead to the interesting situation that God's very first appearance in court would be -of all things- under anti-trust law for monopolizing trademarks and impeding free trade!
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2009
    Yeah, no, totally. That's what I was thinking.


    ....



    *tumbleweed*


    ....


    *distant howl of a mountain wolf*


    ....
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2009
    You're not particularly one for associative thought, are you? wink
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2009
    Actually, I am. But as soon as you involve human law and socialistic references, my mind wanders. biggrin
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2009
    It's almost impossible for any creation to surpass its maker.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2009
    God must have a big inferiority complex by now then.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2009
    Get a room with Steven tongue I am mostly talking with examples based on man and the stuff he's created so far, machines etc.

    As for a robot that feels, i'd be very more interested if we all gave a damn for the human being dying next to us rather than a machine that feels.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2009
    Steven was just posting a hypothetical question, nothing wrong with that.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2009
    I know, i am answering. It's nothing against Steven's question. My answer is that 1) i see it as something impossible to ever happen and even if it does 2) i'll still care (or try to care) more about the human in need besides me and the worldwide violation of human rights every day in the world, and the people dying of starvation and poor life conditions, then the supposed rights of a robot. Just my 2c.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2009
    Well, the thing is that ALL stories that involve issues like that, from Asimov to Frankenstein to Star Trek, are (often quite deliberately) putting issues of human rights, slavery and our own take on what constitutes life and liberty in a starkly different light.

    Telling the same story with the "default" oppressed minorities or in a classic historical frame would not be as challenging, because the whole concept of a humanoid robot puts us on the wrong foot.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2009
    Christodoulides wrote
    I know, i am answering. It's nothing against Steven's question. My answer is that 1) i see it as something impossible to ever happen and even if it does 2) i'll still care (or try to care) more about the human in need besides me and the worldwide violation of human rights every day in the world, and the people dying of starvation and poor life conditions, then the supposed rights of a robot. Just my 2c.


    ....Miss Greece ladies and gentlemen applause
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2009
    As Steven said it is just a random thought.
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2009
    Timmer, go get a bed with a female robot.















    Wait; i might do that instead.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2009
    I propose a ban on Timmer. I certainly don't like his attitude anymore.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2009
    dizzy
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2009
    Christodoulides wrote
    I know, i am answering. It's nothing against Steven's question. My answer is that 1) i see it as something impossible to ever happen and even if it does 2) i'll still care (or try to care) more about the human in need besides me and the worldwide violation of human rights every day in the world, and the people dying of starvation and poor life conditions, then the supposed rights of a robot. Just my 2c.


    smile
    listen to more classical music!