Humanists of the world gather up!

Yeah! I don't hold my opinions particularly highly, I'm more than willing to change them (or perhaps adjust them) if someone else can challenge them intelligibly. (That's the beauty of atheism right there. )

The Qur'an contains some sickening stuff, but so does the Bible. In a primitive culture, these religions can be very dangerous; the islamic world is currently undergoing their version of the Dark Ages. I don't think anti-islamic sentiments help, while they may be justified. Frankly I don't think there's much we can do, as the changes that are needed should probably come from the inside, but I think it will happen sooner or later.

Peter

Opium?

...yeah... that was the joke.

It really depends here, Steven. Of course, you can build a dichotomy of religion and science and science DOES seem to be the biggest threat to religion. Or not?

I've heard of many priests becoming physics professors, specializing in cosmology. Yes, that;s what happens today. Probably we could end up with some kind of a modern St. Thomas looking for a scientific proof of God's existence. Which is maybe pretty good, but what for?

Faith. What is faith? Suspension of disbelief. As I said. People feel better thanks to religion, because they are put in a metaphysical context. They have somebody they can refer their problems to and ask for help. I remember that religion helped me out in a very depressive period in my life. Yes, I started to go to church again and so it went.

Let's differ the original concept of religion from modern interpretations of it. It all changed in course of history, but the whole thing with not tolerating other religions was because, not sure here, didn't research it religion was one of things differing nations. So we are good, they are bad and we have the right to existence. Religion grounded existence. Then happened medieval times, where it was all rather bad and remember that finally the Pope John Paul II apologized for Crusades, Inquisition, not sure about America.

Islam. Not an easy case. I'll add to Martijn's words one thing noticed by somebody whose name I don't remember. The Crusades gave Western civilization a big boost in civilization development. Islam world degraded. Everything polarized and that's why it all looks so bad today. And committing a sacriliege just for the case of freedom of speech is NEVER a good idea, because it is an evidence of cultural disrespect.

Yes, but what these caricatures were REALLY about?

The right to assert an opinion, however politically inconvenient.
Nothing more.

Yeah, well, the huge problem with these "Islam sees (insert whatever you like) as A TERRIBLE INSULT" statements, is that Islam in fact generally does no such thing. In this case it takes but a bit of research to find out there are in fact many icons of Muhammed out there, including obviously a lot of Islamic ones. It's only certain interpretations (or followers of fundamentalist who twist certain takes on possible interpretations to fit their own myopic world views) that consider this "an insult".

Generally though, there is no considered response: it's simple mob rule, where the mob, incited by manipulators whose words they would never even think of checking (let alone questioning), is quite easily drummed up to agitate against the hated (fill in whatever the Arab world happens to be hating today).

I have never had anything but the deepest disdain for those who willingly and of their own volition remain stupid. I'll be damned if I start respecting them now simply because they now choose to remain so under the all-encompassing and convenient excuse of religion.

Probably no Muslims here, yeah.

And hopefully almost no or no anti-Muslims too!

I'm wondering if there are any Buddhists (I have a bone to pick with you guys on this whole detachment thing)
Or Hindus (I have a bone to pick with you guys on this whole treatment of women thing)
Or Rastafarians (I have a bone to pick with you guys on this whole dope thing)

"Rastaman vibration, yeah, is possitive"

-Bob Marley


I seem to remember hearing somewhere that the worst thing a man can be reincarnated as in Buddhism is a Woman ? My girl Mel once said Buddhism was the only religion she leaned toward until she found that out.

The cartoons was about self-censorship due to muslims' wanting to enforce their religious taboos on non-muslims. Should our media just remain quiet out of fear of offending people who get violently offended even by the slightest provocation? There would be no media, or only the kind of media we see in totalitarian states, if we self-censored anything that could possibly offend.

Peter

I'm really theist. I must admit and strongly theist. I respect other views a lot though. I know many great atheists, agnostics to see that there's nothing wrong with them. I hate zealousness (word?)

If I were to be religious I'd without doubt follow Ganesha. There's something cool about a god with an elephant head.

Peter