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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2010 edited
    Horrible, it's really sad, i wish you a quick recovery.

    As for the plane crash, of course it's very early to tell but flight data recorders have been collected and evidence will suggest what happened quickly. From the first few data that's out 'till now though (4 times tried to land, atc told the pilot to go elsewhere and land there instead because of bad visibility but he insisted), i'd say it looks like a pretty common pilot error - controlled flight into terrain with a very small possibility of fuel starvation although i highly, highly doubt that.

    I am not sure there was anything wrong with the plane, we would have known (distress signals, maydays etc), those planes are tough dogs, the reason they have a poor safety record is not because of the machines per se but the sadly low safety and maintainance standards some of the eastern countries still hold.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  1. Analysis of one of the flight data recorders (the conversation recorder, sorry for lack of proper term) ruled technical issues out. Most probably the pilot approached the runway against the ATC's recommendations.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2010
    Damn Pawel. I just heard the news when returning from London, but that's absolutely terrible news. It's good to see so many are proud of the president and his entourage/team.

    I hope you get through this somehow, but it does seem too be quite apocalyptic to get everything back on track quick.
    Kazoo
  2. PawelStroinski wrote
    Analysis of one of the flight data recorders (the conversation recorder, sorry for lack of proper term) ruled technical issues out. Most probably the pilot approached the runway against the ATC's recommendations.

    Imagine the pressure on the pilot (real or imagined) to try a landing with so many high-level people on the plane.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2010
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Analysis of one of the flight data recorders (the conversation recorder, sorry for lack of proper term) ruled technical issues out. Most probably the pilot approached the runway against the ATC's recommendations.


    Yeap, what i said. Pilot gets distracted, frustrated and stressed, won't hear anyone else (atc or co-pilot), looses height without noticing it until it's too late.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  3. Smolensk ATC workers (officers?) didn't know English and the pilot's Russian wasn't perfect. One of the ATC workers says that the Polish pilot had problem with numbers, giving the ATC not understandable height data. At some point the height information just ceased to be sent.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  4. PawelStroinski wrote
    Smolensk ATC workers (officers?) didn't know English...

    Isn't English the standard language for ATCs around the world? If so, then this controller should not have been in the post.

    And if English is not standard requirement then it's a very haphazard system, particularly for international flights.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  5. it IS the standard ATC language, so it's really weird. Also the Smolensk airport didn't have the most recent anti-fog installation. The pilots were completely blind.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2010
    Yikes, I just heard about this news now too. Horrible, horrible stuff. My best thought's to your country's recovery, Pawel.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2010
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Smolensk ATC workers (officers?) didn't know English...

    Isn't English the standard language for ATCs around the world? If so, then this controller should not have been in the post.

    And if English is not standard requirement then it's a very haphazard system, particularly for international flights.


    It is. But that doesn't automatically imply everyone is at the required levels of english language, sadly. Especially from formet Soviet countries, Asia and Africa, misunderstandings happen more frequently that we can imagine, particularly in the past.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2010
    PawelStroinski wrote
    it IS the standard ATC language, so it's really weird. Also the Smolensk airport didn't have the most recent anti-fog installation. The pilots were completely blind.


    You mean ILS? Well, the airport instructed him to land elsewhere, but he insisted. 4 times. It's almost a certain death trying to land in heavy fog / rain without ILS.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2010
    Interesting new info that however doesn't change much.

    "There are conflicting reports, that the airplane may have gone around three times with the crew considering to divert to Minsk (Belarus, 170nm west of Smolensk) or Moscow (Russia, 200nm east of Smolensk) before attempting their fatal 4th approach. Other reports say, that the crew was adivsed by air traffic control in Belarus to not continue to Smolensk due to fog, but to divert to Minsk and later, after hand off to Russian ATC, Russian Air Traffic Controllers recommended to divert to Moscow, the crew however continued to Smolensk. Other reports say, that the airplane was holding over Smolensk which was mistaken as attempts to approach the airfield and go-arounds. The air traffic controller at the Air Base said, the airplane attempted only one approach before radio contact was lost. (see below)"

    "The air traffic controller at Smolensk Air Base (Northern Airport) said, that the communication between him and the crew was done in Russian, the crew understanding Russian but not being fluent in the language and having trouble to do their readbacks. The airplane was on its first approach, when he advised of the deteriorating visibility and recommended to divert, the crew however responded, that they would give it one try and divert thereafter if they were not able to land. During the approach the crew stopped reading back, the aircraft subsequently impacted ground.

    Polish officials confirmed, that the airplane was on its first approach to the Air Base, when it impacted the trees. Three flights were to land at the Air Base in that period of time: the first was a Yakovlev YAK-40 carrying journalists accompanying Poland's president, which made a safe landing. The second was a Russian Ilyushin IL-76, which diverted after two unsuccessful approaches. The third was the presidential Tupolev TU-154M.
    "

    http://avherald.com/h?article=429ec5fa&opt=0
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  6. I missed this report too. Awful news, I hope the nation can soon recover from such terrible news.
    waaaaaahhhhhhhh!!! Where's my nut? arrrghhhhhhh
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2010
    update:

    On Apr 13th Premier Putin was briefed by the invesitgation commission, that first preliminary review of cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder indicated, that all engines were operating normally until impact, there was no explosion or fire aboard prior to impact. 48 victims were identified so far. The MAK added in that briefing, that the preliminary analysis of the recorders suggests, that there was no technical malfunction prior to impact.

    Closer to pilot error day by day
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  7. 64 victims identified. First group of coffins got back today, second is expected tomorrow.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorLSH
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2010 edited
    Wow. UK airspace has come to an absolute standstill due to a huge migrating cloud of volcanic ash from an eruption in Iceland. shocked

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8621407.stm

    Hopefully everything will be fine tomorrow as I'm supposed to be flying. slant

    I hope everything is OK for those in the vicinity of the eruption.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2010 edited
    Not just UK airspace: the Dutch airports have closed down as well.

    Hmmmm....Icelandic catastrophes directly impacting the UK and The Netherlands.
    Sounds familiar... slant
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  8. LSH wrote
    Hopefully everything will be fine tomorrow as I'm supposed to be flying. slant

    Doesn't look too hopeful for you at the moment: they are talking about there being delays/cancellations extending beyond today.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2010
    Wow, fantastic! punk

    I hope I can see the reddened sunset tonight.
    Kazoo
  9. What volcanic ash can do to a plane.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2010
    Martijn wrote
    Not just UK airspace: the Dutch airports have closed down as well.

    Hmmmm....Icelandic catastrophes directly impacting the UK and The Netherlands.
    Sounds familiar... slant


    what? Vikings!?
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorMarselus
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2010
    Lots of flights cancelled too in Barcelona (mostly those heading to the UK).
    Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you
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      CommentAuthorLSH
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2010 edited
    No non-emergency flights are allowed in UK airspace until at least 7am tomorrow morning.

    So I'm fucked. I was supposed to be leaving at 7.
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      CommentAuthorMarselus
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2010 edited
    LSH wrote
    So I'm fucked. I was supposed to be leaving at 7.

    Yes you are
    Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2010
    that looks awful
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2010


    There's a very good national documentary in the air crash investigation series, check it out.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2010
    Marselus wrote
    LSH wrote
    So I'm fucked. I was supposed to be leaving at 7.

    Yes you are


    biggrin
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2010
    I'm glad I made it back from London JUST in time, but I'm a bit worried about my Budapest trip on May 22. Don't these things usually last for MONTHS?
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2010
    The situation will be assessed and it's predicted flights may be starting again tomorrow.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2010
    "On April 15th the Russian MAK released first results of the investigation and preliminary analysis of both flight data and cockpit voice recorder today saying, that the airplane was attempting its first approach when it impacted trees 1050 meters short of the runway threshold and about 40 to 45 meters to the left of the extended runway centerline. The airplane continued for another 200 meters before the left wing impacted another tree and the airplane broke up. The airplane came to rest about 350-500 meters short of the runway threshold and about 150 meters left of the extended runway centerline. The MAK completed aerial survey of the accident site and surrounding. The navigation aid and communication facilities were examined using a measurement aircraft on Apr 15th. "
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.