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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJan 13th 2010 edited
    Ah, what the heck...I'm just gonna create a topic of this favourite "sound" of mine.

    It's difficult to describe this sound in words, since I lack the terminology, but it's almost always minor-moded, often with solo instruments (esp. woodwinds), very pastoral a la Vaughan-Williams, elongated, psalm-like harmonies and melodies etc.

    In the John Williams thread, I recently posted a link to an iTunes playlist I did on John Williams' version of this sound (one of the main reasons why he is my favourite film composer):

    http://www.celluloidtunes.net/non-websi … ssound.jpg

    I've also just now completed a playlist of the similar sound by OTHER composers:

    http://www.celluloidtunes.net/non-websi … sound2.jpg

    I'd welcome any suggestions of stuff I'm missing that should be there. In terms of Williams, you can pretty much recommend anything, as I have it all. In the latter, however, I may not own it, but I'd still like to know.

    And no, Steven, this is not an excuse to discuss religion!
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeJan 13th 2010
    "The Emperor's Death" from Return of the Jedi. "Stealing the Stones" from Temple of Doom... oh right, complete and chronological. Sorry. shame "Leaving Home" from Superman

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  1. Science and Religion, Election by Adoration (Angels and Demons)
    Any thematic track from The Village (The Gravel Road for example)
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeJan 13th 2010
    Are we talking tracks, full scores or music in general? In case of the latter, you HAVE to listen to Arvo Part, if you don't do so yet. He's king of religious sounding or calming music at the moment.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJan 13th 2010 edited
    BobdH wrote
    Are we talking tracks, full scores or music in general? In case of the latter, you HAVE to listen to Arvo Part, if you don't do so yet. He's king of religious sounding or calming music at the moment.


    In this case, I'm mostly talking individual tracks (pr. my track listings in the links above).

    I've tried quite a bit of Pärt, but have still not quite "connected" to him yet. I have his Berliner Messe.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJan 13th 2010
    BobdH wrote
    Are we talking tracks, full scores or music in general? In case of the latter, you HAVE to listen to Arvo Part, if you don't do so yet. He's king of religious sounding or calming music at the moment.


    Arvo part is along with John Tavener, the fathers of this neo modal / neo tonal religious sound which is wholly spiritual as a listening experience (no matter your religious beliefs or not) and soothing. Listen to FRATRES for strings by Part as well as anything for string orchestra that he wrote and you can find like, Cantus In Memoriam Benjamin Britten for string orchestra and bell (1977), his best piece to date perhaps, Silouans Song for string orchestra (1991), Trisagion for string orchestra (1992), Orient & Occident for string orchestra (2000), Fratres for violin, string orchestra and percussion (1992) and of course his beautiful solo piano works, Für Alina for piano (1976) Spiegel im Spiegel for violin or cello and piano (1978) and Fratres for violin and piano (1980). Also anything from John Tavener. I am sure you'll also like Karl Jenkins own solo works.

    And of course John Debney's PAssion of the christ and Peter GAbriel's the last temptation of the Christ.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeJan 13th 2010 edited
    Maybe Part's Sanctuary album is a good way to start. It contains several of his styles, from choir (Magnificat) to Fratres, Cantus for Britten and Silentium (from Tabula Rasa).

    I haven't heard a lot from Tavener yet, but I'm impressed by what I heard.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeJan 14th 2010
    Just wondered if you're familiar with Vaughan Williams 5th symphony Thor because if you aren't the 3rd movement 'Romanza' will blow your socks off!
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJan 14th 2010
    Vaughan Williams always managed to capture the 'religious sound' perfectly. (Or should that be 'agnostic sound'?)
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeJan 14th 2010
    Steven wrote
    Vaughan Williams always managed to capture the 'religious sound' perfectly. (Or should that be 'agnostic sound'?)


    True! And unbelievably he hits that sound more convincingly than any other composer in existence.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJan 14th 2010
    Timmer wrote
    Just wondered if you're familiar with Vaughan Williams 5th symphony Thor because if you aren't the 3rd movement 'Romanza' will blow your socks off!


    Cool. I'll check it out. I already have the "Tallis" piece on the list, but there's room for more RVW.
    I am extremely serious.
  2. Add The Lark Ascending too.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJan 16th 2010 edited
    Let me just dwell a little bit on the playlists I created earlier. The Williams list is obviously superb, but it's mostly within his own, defined version of the sound. I've been listening a lot to the SECOND list with various composers and it's just gobsmackingly beautiful - one gem after the other, tracks that are otherwise highlights on their respective soundtracks but who now come together in a star-struck environment to celebrate themselves.

    If you have many of the same tracks as I do, I recommend you to create a similar list. They just come alive in a whole other way. And that's even before I arrange them (I play them as viewed in the link above).
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJan 28th 2010
    I'm still enjoying both of my playlists very much. The Williams one is really spectacular, and I recommend those of you who own most of these yourself, to make a similar one. It really makes these tracks shine as one "whole" piece.

    However, I was just now struck by how totally inappropriate the "Into the Death Star" segment that is tagged on to the "Final Duel" track really is. You've been going through this gorgeous, lyrical album and all of a sudden, this frenetic action piece pierces through. smile Perhaps I should fade the track out before it begins or something.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeJan 28th 2010
    Thor wrote
    However, I was just now struck by how totally inappropriate the "Into the Death Star" segment that is tagged on to the "Final Duel" track really is. You've been going through this gorgeous, lyrical album and all of a sudden, this frenetic action piece pierces through. smile Perhaps I should fade the track out before it begins or something.


    Well, that's film music for you.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJan 28th 2010
    Erik Woods wrote
    Thor wrote
    However, I was just now struck by how totally inappropriate the "Into the Death Star" segment that is tagged on to the "Final Duel" track really is. You've been going through this gorgeous, lyrical album and all of a sudden, this frenetic action piece pierces through. smile Perhaps I should fade the track out before it begins or something.


    Well, that's film music for you.

    -Erik-


    Yeah. That crazy film music.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJan 28th 2010
    No, it's actually film music, following the dramatic changes of the film and aiding them appropriately. Something composers like bt, haslinger and others (as we were discussing the other week) don't seem able to do so and get the "i am making a solo album" notion out of their heads. Thus their film music makes for a listening experience on album which walks smoothly on the comfort zone, but it's essentially dramatically poor for the film it's supposed to aid.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJan 28th 2010
    Christodoulides wrote
    No, it's actually film music, following the dramatic changes of the film and aiding them appropriately. Something composers like bt, haslinger and others (as we were discussing the other week) don't seem able to do so and get the "i am making a solo album" notion out of their heads. Thus their film music makes for a listening experience on album which walks smoothly on the comfort zone, but it's essentially dramatically poor for the film it's supposed to aid.


    Oh, stop that now. You promised me to get back to me with that evaluation once you'd actually seen some of my recommended titles.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJan 28th 2010 edited
    I am talking about the ones i DID listen / view smile
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2010 edited
    Thankfully God updated himself with the times and it seems that he's no longer in the prehistoric stone-age state of things.

    Pheww....thank 'mericans for that.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2010
    rolleyes vomit
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2010
    Some people fail at basic logic. They really do.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2010
    I'll pray to god to fix my SAE order, he's bound to listen rather than fix something unimportant like Haiti.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2010
    So, not without some considerable effort, I have recreated Thor's exact playlists for my own, and I must say: these do work a treat.

    The major changes I made to the non-Williams list, is that I took out the classical cues.
    Mixing those with soundtracks just didn't work for me. Beside, aside from the Vaughan Williams Tallis piece (which was absolutely gorgeous!) and the Lübeck organ cue, they didn't really ring my bell.
    I also added some Rozsa (a RELIGIOUS list without ROZSA? That's blasphemy right there! :smite: angry ) and some more Delerue as well (mainly from the rerecording of A Walk With Love And Death, but I'm sure I'll find more cues as time goes on).

    So, I'm very happy with it, so thanks Thor, for the inspiration!
    We should have more threads like this, as I constantly am working on arranging cues into themed "mix lists" much as I used to created mix tapes (yeah, I'm from that generation) in the olden days.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 2nd 2010 edited
    If this board had a facebook "like" button, you'd get one right now.

    You're right about the classical cues. They are really in another territory, so it's like going from one sphere to the other, musically speaking. That said, the playlist has NOT been arranged at all; basically just the tracks arranged by composer name. So if I had done a more careful arrangement for listening, perhaps I would knit them in better somehow.

    I did include some Rozsa, though, with two cues from BEN HUR ("Star of Betlehem" and "Adoration of the Magicians"). Since the intial list, I've also added Georges Delerue's BLACK ROBE suite.

    The great thing about this list is that each cue is really, to me, a centerpiece in their respective scores. So when they come together like this, it's just one track of bliss after the other. Umberto Eco once said of CASABLANCA that "When all the archetypes burst out shamlessly, we plumb Homeric profundity. Two clichés make us laugh, but a hundred clichés move us because we sense dimly that the clichés are talking among themselves, celebrating a reunion (Eco 1987: 209)" Swap clichées with religious-sounding tracks, and I think this could be applied here too.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2010
    To be honest, I've always thought Eco to be a bit of a pretentious prick, and this remark doesn't do much to soften that impression.

    Clichés may be laughable, if employed unjudiciously, or in too specific a context.
    But the reason clichés work is because they are generically recognised (otherwise they wouldn't be clichés).

    They may be unsurprising to the point of annoyance, simply due to overexposure. Or, in the same vein, disappointing. But to laugh them off merely because they are clichés negates the power of archetypes, stereotypes and their inherent metaphores. A juduciously executed cliché in music (e.g. a minor piece ending in a major chord) is emotionally a zillion times more powerful than a hundred original, cerebral pieces.

    Clichés do not inhabit a self-contained "meet'n'greet universe" as Eco seems to suggest. Rather they reflect a universal recognition that somehow echoes within each and everyone of us (for better or for worse).

    Eco standing off on the side (rather than being involved), observing and analysing says a lot more abouty Eco than it says about clichés in my opinion.

    I don't mind clichés in music (which I guess is a good thing, especially when compiling playlists of soundtrack centerpieces), but they should (at least) reflect a continuous (or naturally flowing) mood to make sure the experience isn't a jarring, bumpy one. Especially when working with themes like "religion" or -for example- "action", that ensures a certain type of composition will be prevalent.
    But I don't mind that in its context any more or less than I'd rate it in a playlist of like-minded cues.
    It's just what it is.
    If we need a spiritual scene in a church, I'm just not expecting Powell-esque quirkiness (although that may be funny...very much because it's not an expected cliché).

    Anyway, listening to that playlist again, I'm starting to get an inkling of what your "religious sound" is, Thor: it's very hymnal, quite elegiac. It's a very good category, and quite aptly named.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2010 edited
    I think one should separate between clichée, which is an appropriately negative-loaded word to use for cheap copycat solutions, and pastiche, which uses the archetypes more originally or creatively, perhaps. At least we need a word to describe the negative aspects of clichée making in arts. What would the alternative be?

    Besides, Eco's point wasn't so much to ridicule clichées, but rather assess that they have a particular power when joined together. I think that's the most important thing to take away from the quote.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2010
    Who the feck is Eco?
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2010 edited
    Thor wrote
    Eco's point wasn't so much to ridicule clichées, but rather assess that they have a particular power when joined together. I think that's the most important thing to take away from the quote.


    I know, and it's one I disagree with.
    I just don't see that self-encapsulated universe of clichés, working -apparently according to Eco- only because they reinforce each other.

    They work because the resonate within us.
    So rather than being self-contained and self-referential, to be evaluated from the outisde, as Eco seems to do, I would argue clichés are inherent to archetypes and thus reflect our own psychological/sociological/emotional make-up: we are as much part of the clichés as they are part of us.
    But maybe now this is getting needlessly Jungian. smile
    I just think Eco tends to over-intellectualize things (something I can't empathise with myself at all wink ), which sometimes annoys me.

    You're right that it would be good to separate the "good" and "bad" clichés (although I wouldn't employ "pastiche", which isn't so much a type of cliché, but a mockingly simplifying relection of an original point or thought or work). But I too struggle with an appropriate concept.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2010
    Steven wrote
    Who the feck is Eco?


    That black guy from Lost.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn