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      CommentAuthorDemonStar
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009
    I didn't much like it when I first listened to it but now I'm seeing some tracks are fun. I expected much more from Silvestri though... at least we've still got Christmas Carol coming.
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      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009
    What an odd story this lossy/lossless thing. The person who did the mixup is probably less or more losst.
    Kazoo
  1. Erik Woods wrote
    Christodoulides wrote
    No, I am no condoning such practices. But as a sound engineer, i tell you there's no way you can really know if the master was a proper .wav or a very good mp3 or any other high bitrate lossy compression format; the fact that this case either slipped under the radar or was official announced (didn't exactly have the time to look it up) was a mishap that will be forgotten but cannot override the fact that there's not a real way to know when buying a CD what has preceded 'till you, the consumer, got that CD in their hands; what remains is trust in the professionalism of the people involved behind it.


    Still don't think this is something that can easily be fluffed off. I hope people call up Varese, show their displeasure and that Varese corrects the problem. I mean, when a digital click was found in track 4 of Intrada's The Tale of Despereaux Intrada told everyone who bought a copy to send it back and a new copy would be sent without the "click."

    -Erik-


    Absolutely agree with erik on this matter. Its not like you can't hear the differences in quality, because they are obvious. This is easily the worst sounding silvestri release ever! Nothing comes close, not even some bootlegs! It's for me a worst case scenario that does not need to happen in the digital age anymore. Every release of recently recorded scores from the release sounds good, very good or fine. This one does not, only because some dude used the wrong master.

    What I don't understand is how some people play down these issues only because they don't like the music. I hope they will think about all those who spoke up against these problems when the next goldenthal or horner release from varese was mastered from low quality mp3 files!
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      CommentAuthorDemonStar
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009
    I agree, good music or not we should let Varese know about the issue so that at least such a mistake doesn't happen again with another score release.
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      CommentAuthorDemonStar
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009
    Bregt wrote
    The person who did the mixup is probably less or more losst.


    biggrin
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009
    BigMacGyver wrote
    Absolutely agree with erik on this matter. Its not like you can't hear the differences in quality, because they are obvious.


    I seriously wonder though how many people there are out there who actually heard the difference and went out to check their suspicions, or how many there are that just "jumped on the bandwagon" when this story leaked.
    It's not like anyone apparently had a proper (lossless?) version to check the sound quality against, so it can only have been concluded by someone checking it against a spectrograph, like D. said...

    Anyway, whether or not a lot of people delude themselves into thinking they can hear a diference (and I'm not saying there's anyone on board here who does do that!), is neither here nor there, as I'm absolutely with Erik on thos one: this is a manufacturing mistake which of course should be recified.
    It's simply not the product the customer paid for, no matter what expert decides whether or not someone is able to "hear the difference".
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorDemonStar
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009
    Actually people do have the CD - Colosseum has been shipping it early.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009 edited
    Yeah, but they're all from a lossy source, if I understand the issue correctly.
    I.e. there is no lossLESS source to actually compare against.
    Which means the only way to have found out is by checking frequency cut-off rates: the lower the bitrate, the lower the frequency peaks (if I understand the process correcly).
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorDemonStar
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009 edited
    Yup, that's the point - the CD master used was lossy. I think it's very unlikely the original recorded tapes would be lossy; it's a fault in the CD mastering. So a properly done CD version should be lossless (full frequency).
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009
    Exactly: hence the need to exchange the CDs.
    Completely aside from the whole "can we hear it? No, we can't!" debate, this is a VERY simple case of manufacturing error, which the manufacturer should fix.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009
    Martijn wrote
    BigMacGyver wrote
    Absolutely agree with erik on this matter. Its not like you can't hear the differences in quality, because they are obvious.


    I seriously wonder though how many people there are out there who actually heard the difference and went out to check their suspicions, or how many there are that just "jumped on the bandwagon" when this story leaked.
    It's not like anyone apparently had a proper (lossless?) version to check the sound quality against, so it can only have been concluded by someone checking it against a spectrograph, like D. said...



    bingo.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009 edited
    Martijn wrote
    Exactly: hence the need to exchange the CDs.
    Completely aside from the whole "can we hear it? No, we can't!" debate, this is a VERY simple case of manufacturing error, which the manufacturer should fix.


    Indeed, nobody is arguing with this.

    What i giggle at though is the photos from frequency spectre phasmatographs posted in fan forums, most of people never seen one in the past or know what it actually is, and debating whether they can see or hear the difference or not.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorBigMacGyver
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009 edited
    Martijn wrote
    BigMacGyver wrote
    Absolutely agree with erik on this matter. Its not like you can't hear the differences in quality, because they are obvious.


    I seriously wonder though how many people there are out there who actually heard the difference and went out to check their suspicions, or how many there are that just "jumped on the bandwagon" when this story leaked.
    It's not like anyone apparently had a proper (lossless?) version to check the sound quality against, so it can only have been concluded by someone checking it against a spectrograph, like D. said...

    Anyway, whether or not a lot of people delude themselves into thinking they can hear a diference (and I'm not saying there's anyone on board here who does do that!), is neither here nor there, as I'm absolutely with Erik on thos one: this is a manufacturing mistake which of course should be recified.
    It's simply not the product the customer paid for, no matter what expert decides whether or not someone is able to "hear the difference".


    Yes its true that i dont have a comparison with a real lossless source, but i dont need one. All i need to hear are silvestri releases from the past and none sounds as flat as gi joe does. Listen to gi joe and mummy returns or even van helsing back to back on good hi-fi speakers and you will instantly hear the difference, especially in the brass.

    Anyways, it looks like we all agree that its definitely a manufacturing error that needs to be corrected by the company, so its important to let them know about it! Because as they say: knowing is half the battle!
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009
    Sooooo, what about the music? Anyone heard the score and can weigh in their opinion on the music?
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009
    lp wrote
    Sooooo, what about the music? Anyone heard the score and can weigh in their opinion on the music?


    It's rubbish.
  2. Southall wrote
    lp wrote
    Sooooo, what about the music? Anyone heard the score and can weigh in their opinion on the music?


    It's rubbish.


    Well, if you say so... it is certainly the best piece of rubbish i have listened to in a long time wink
  3. Well, I say what James says.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorSunil
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009 edited
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Well, I say what James says.


    I am sorry, which score you all talking about?
    Racism, Prejudices and discrimination exists everywhere.
  4. GI Joe.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorSunil
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009
    Oh! my God, i can't believe what you are saying. Actually, i am yet to listen to the score, but its hard to believe that Alan scored awfully. Can you elaborate it?
    Racism, Prejudices and discrimination exists everywhere.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009
    Sunil wrote
    Oh! my God, i can't believe what you are saying. Actually, i am yet to listen to the score, but its hard to believe that Alan scored awfully. Can you elaborate it?


    Pawel described it well earlier in the thread when he said it was like a better-orchestrated RC score without the benefit of a cheesy theme. It's just a complete mess - there's no structure, no indication of a plan to the music. Every track is like something which may have been left off the album for Eraser or Tomb Raider 2 for not being interesting enough.
    • CommentAuthorBigMacGyver
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009 edited
    it was like a better-orchestrated RC score without the benefit of a cheesy theme. It's just a complete mess - there's no structure, no indication of a plan to the music.


    Keep in mind that this comes from someone who could not identify a strong main theme in silvestris The Wild wink

    There is a theme and i'd say a very strong one. It's just that the score builds up to it instead of playing it to death from the get go. If you listen to the great end credits and can't identify a cheesy theme in there (really, its all what that piece consists of - a cheesy theme with lots of brass) then i am afraid there's no way to help you enjoying this score in any way. This is far from the simplicity of a dark knight or transformers. There's a synth element to the score that i admit is partly recycled from silvestris tomb raider 2, though the orchestral action tracks especially during the second half of the album compensate this nicely. During that second half, i could not help but think of starship troopers a bit and that basil poledouris may have scored such a film in a similar way had he ever been given a chance. End Credits is really a tribute to poledouris in my ears.

    That's as objective as i can be about this score. But well, i like it so what do i know? wink
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009 edited
    Have only heard it once still but i decided to give it a more in-depth chance 'cause i usually love Silvestri's music. But the last one i'd expect to hear influenced by RC, is......Silvesti! freezing

    What's going on Hans? 'Been inviting everyone up to your studios and giving them free barbecues beers and hot babes? (reasons enough to commute your religion, not just your musical style, but still saying...) wink
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  5. The only really decent track on the score is the last one. I started to feel the MV refences was Beowulf, one of the reasons why I disliked that score. Never was a big fan of Silvestri though.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  6. Christodoulides wrote
    Have only heard it once still but i decided to give it a more in-depth chance 'cause i usually love Silvestri's music. But the last one i'd expect to hear influenced by RC, is......Silvesti! freezing


    However, you have to admit that its even more logical that he is adapting to the requirements of modern action scoring, given what happened to him on pirates of the caribbean and something's gotta give. While i don't think the influences are that earth shattering, they are there definitely. However, silvestri also avoids some RC cliches with gi joe, such as the male choir or the female solo voice.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009
    BigMacGyver wrote
    Christodoulides wrote
    Have only heard it once still but i decided to give it a more in-depth chance 'cause i usually love Silvestri's music. But the last one i'd expect to hear influenced by RC, is......Silvesti! freezing


    However, you have to admit that its even more logical that he is adapting to the requirements of modern action scoring, given what happened to him on pirates of the caribbean and something's gotta give. While i don't think the influences are that earth shattering, they are there definitely. However, silvestri also avoids some RC cliches with gi joe, such as the male choir or the female solo voice.


    I know, that wouldn't be surprising given the current illogically identical (as it seems) "tastes" and myopic "musical visions" of the directors these days, but even with that, i think we're not giving Silvestri the credit he deserves in respect to the movie he scored; i mean what did we expect? I know we are all excited whenever one of the greats scores a movie (i.e. the left-overs from the Bates' and the Djawadis') but still, G.I.JOE - the movie, looks and feels UTTER CRAP!
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  7. Christodoulides wrote
    BigMacGyver wrote
    Christodoulides wrote
    Have only heard it once still but i decided to give it a more in-depth chance 'cause i usually love Silvestri's music. But the last one i'd expect to hear influenced by RC, is......Silvesti! freezing


    However, you have to admit that its even more logical that he is adapting to the requirements of modern action scoring, given what happened to him on pirates of the caribbean and something's gotta give. While i don't think the influences are that earth shattering, they are there definitely. However, silvestri also avoids some RC cliches with gi joe, such as the male choir or the female solo voice.


    I know, that wouldn't be surprising given the current illogically identical (as it seems) "tastes" and myopic "musical visions" of the directors these days, but even with that, i think we're not giving Silvestri the credit he deserves in respect to the movie he scored; i mean what did we expect? I know we are all excited whenever one of the greats scores a movie (i.e. the left-overs from the Bates' and the Djawadis') but still, G.I.JOE - the movie, looks and feels UTTER CRAP!


    I will still hold back with my opinion on the movie. After all, i only know the trailers and there have been other movies before that looked bad as trailers and were quite entertaining in the end.

    At least the score is entertraining, which is at least one thing the movie was good enough for, i guess. And the webmaster of stephensommers.com already confirmed to me that silvestri and sommers are good friends and that alan will definitely score sommers next movie (though he did not want to elaborate yet what it will be, i am guessing its tarzan).
  8. Well, the trailer shows the movie is a Michael Bay wannabe. And that's quite stupid, makes me avoid it.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009
    Southall wrote
    lp wrote
    Sooooo, what about the music? Anyone heard the score and can weigh in their opinion on the music?


    It's rubbish.


    BigMacGyver wrote
    Keep in mind that this comes from someone who could not identify a strong main theme in silvestris The Wild wink


    Also rubbish.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009
    BigMacGyver wrote
    There is a theme and i'd say a very strong one. It's just that the score builds up to it instead of playing it to death from the get go. If you listen to the great end credits and can't identify a cheesy theme in there (really, its all what that piece consists of - a cheesy theme with lots of brass) then i am afraid there's no way to help you enjoying this score in any way.


    There's a nice tune in the end credits. That was the only bit of the score I thought wasn't rubbish (but there's a stronger tune in most other Silvestri scores). I didn't notice the tune anywhere else in the score - I'm more than willing to admit that it might be there, I just haven't listened closely enough to notice it.