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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2010
    Timmer wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    As stand alone music... yes, but as a film score... I'd say no... but maybe if the music was translated to a live playing orchestra... that might have made all the difference. Vangelis' synths are cheesy beyond belief (even by 1980's standards) and cheapen the film the score was written for. The same thing happened with Alexander. Most of Vangelis' music, especially the action music, is laughable in the film.

    -Erik-


    Believe me, back then the synths were not considered cheesy.


    Yeah, I know... but it still sounded cheap especially around that time of the great orchestral film score re-birth. Vangelis' kind of music soundscape was best served a year later in Blade Runner which is one of the all time great scores! Anyway, I remember seeing Chariots in the 80's and when Vangelis' score showed up it was... ewwwww... that doesn't sound right. The theme was the hottest thing going at the time of the films release and I'm pretty sure that's the reason it won the Oscar.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2010
    ...a bit like The Bridge On The River Kwai winning for Colonel Bogey March, except Kwai is worse as Arnold didn't even write Bogey. wink
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2010
    Erik Woods wrote
    Timmer wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    As stand alone music... yes, but as a film score... I'd say no... but maybe if the music was translated to a live playing orchestra... that might have made all the difference. Vangelis' synths are cheesy beyond belief (even by 1980's standards) and cheapen the film the score was written for. The same thing happened with Alexander. Most of Vangelis' music, especially the action music, is laughable in the film.

    -Erik-


    Believe me, back then the synths were not considered cheesy.


    Yeah, I know... but it still sounded cheap especially around that time of the great orchestral film score re-birth. Vangelis' kind of music soundscape was best served a year later in Blade Runner which is one of the all time great scores! Anyway, I remember seeing Chariots in the 80's and when Vangelis' score showed up it was... ewwwww... that doesn't sound right. The theme was the hottest thing going at the time of the films release and I'm pretty sure that's the reason it won the Oscar.

    -Erik-


    It's been a few years since I saw the film (CHARIOTS), but I remember really liking it there (and the spotting of the film, in particular). However, since this thread is about SOUNDTRACK LISTENING EXPERIENCES more than how the scores work in the films, it won out over the likes of RAIDERS, FINAL CONFLICT, TRUE CONFESSIONS and what else!
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2010
    Well, if I can, I will always bring up how the score worked in the film as well.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2010
    At the time of the release the Barber piece was certainly not overused by any means. Later on with Platoon, and others I will admit to its overuse. However, as part of the string quartet it originally came from its a nice piece for sure. Keep in mind it was written for 4 instruments.
    thomas
    listen to more classical music!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2010
    sdtom wrote
    At the time of the release the Barber piece was certainly not overused by any means. Later on with Platoon, and others I will admit to its overuse. However, as part of the string quartet it originally came from its a nice piece for sure. Keep in mind it was written for 4 instruments.
    thomas


    I only became familiar with the piece when I saw The Elephant Man in 1980.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2010
    Timmer wrote
    sdtom wrote
    At the time of the release the Barber piece was certainly not overused by any means. Later on with Platoon, and others I will admit to its overuse. However, as part of the string quartet it originally came from its a nice piece for sure. Keep in mind it was written for 4 instruments.
    thomas


    I only became familiar with the piece when I saw The Elephant Man in 1980.


    It was used in various circumstances before that too, J.F.K's funeral, for example. But not to the extent it was in the 80's and onwards, for sure, especially in film and tv.
    I am extremely serious.
  1. Over use of a specific piece of music tends to diminish the impact of it for me when it's used over and over again. To such an extent that it spoils the original context because of the other uses - and it tends to be in something annoyingly trivial such as advertisement.

    Williams' march from Raiders of The Lost Ark is a bit like that. But if you have a strong emotional tie to something like this march then that probably overrides any subsequent associations?
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2010
    Thor wrote
    Timmer wrote
    sdtom wrote
    At the time of the release the Barber piece was certainly not overused by any means. Later on with Platoon, and others I will admit to its overuse. However, as part of the string quartet it originally came from its a nice piece for sure. Keep in mind it was written for 4 instruments.
    thomas


    I only became familiar with the piece when I saw The Elephant Man in 1980.


    It was used in various circumstances before that too, J.F.K's funeral, for example. But not to the extent it was in the 80's and onwards, for sure, especially in film and tv.


    I would encourage you to seek out the quartet and have a listen. I obtained mine on Naxos
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2010
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    Over use of a specific piece of music tends to diminish the impact of it for me when it's used over and over again. To such an extent that it spoils the original context because of the other uses - and it tends to be in something annoyingly trivial such as advertisement.

    Williams' march from Raiders of The Lost Ark is a bit like that. But if you have a strong emotional tie to something like this march then that probably overrides any subsequent associations?


    We agree to disagree. I'll never tire of Anitra's Dance, 1812, Fanfare for Common Man, and many others. I'm amazed at how often the material is used and how well it works in the film or ad.
    Thomas
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorManwe
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2010
    I agree that many of the classical "greats" such as the Barber Adagio, Orff's O Fortuna, Mozart's Symphony no. 40, etc. have a tendency to be overused and thereby lose some of their dramatic impact. But to me they still (for the most part) remain excellent pieces and if it is good music, it will continue to be good music even when it has been blasphemously used in twenty pop arrangements in fabric softener commercials (or whatever it might be). As long as it is music with real quality I can always go back to the source and find that it still has a lot to give me.

    What however is concerning with this overuse of certain pieces is the very narrow picture it gives of a certain composer's output. What is really the point of using the same music over and over again when there is so much to choose from? Why does all the "Best of" albums always contain the same music when there obviously is much, MUCH, MUCH more to hear that is just as, or even much more, memorable and qualitative? Take the Barber Adagio as an example - a lovely piece and surely the one to be featured on a "best of" collection of there was only one Barber piece to be featured. But what about all the other great Barber works - like the marvelous first movement of his violin concerto (a personal favourite) and a piece just as good, perhaps even better. But surely never featured on such a compilation. How will "ordinary" people find their way past the "overuse" pieces and into the vast diversity of orchestral music?

    Just a reflection.... smile
    - What matters is the music -
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2010
    Good point, Manwe. For example, I'm kinda sick of Vivaldi always being associated with the lightweight (but still enjoyable) "Seasons". He's done so much more excellent stuff, like the beautiful "Stabat Mater".
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2010
    Thor wrote
    Good point, Manwe. For example, I'm kinda sick of Vivaldi always being associated with the lightweight (but still enjoyable) "Seasons". He's done so much more excellent stuff, like the beautiful "Stabat Mater".


    The advantage for the film producer is money and a somewhat recognizable theme. There are public domain versions of many of the popular classical melodies. Original material from a name composer is going to cost a lot more money. A coincidence perhaps but the Orchestra Nova concert I attended performed the Vivaldi 4 Seasons with the 4 Seasons of Buenos Aires/Piazzolla. What a remarkable wonderful difference between the two works. The Piazzolla material is tango material without the percussion. The percussion sound is achieved on the violin. I've mentioned this before but hearing the material in a live intimate church that has wonderful acoustics makes all the difference in the world. No digital recording can duplicate what I heard. I smile to myself when people think that their headphones/speakers/ear buds are so great. When you can hear a quiet note from the harpsichord along with a phrase from a cello, violin, bass, and viola and be able to hear distinctly hear all 5 instruments you know the acoustics are good.
    Thomas
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2010
    Have you heard the Stabat Mater, Tom? It's one of my alltime favourite classical pieces, and quite famous too (although not as famous as the Seasons, obviously). You can listen to it here, if you wish:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFuEQEs6A24
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2010
    Thor wrote
    Have you heard the Stabat Mater, Tom? It's one of my alltime favourite classical pieces, and quite famous too (although not as famous as the Seasons, obviously). You can listen to it here, if you wish:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFuEQEs6A24


    I have Thor and it is a wonderful piece
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2010
    and the next release is????
    listen to more classical music!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2010
    I expect Alan is considering 1982 very carefully, the strong contenders in this year are awesome.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  2. Or I've just been too busy the last wee while. I'll get on this as one of my next jobs.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  3. Timmer wrote
    I expect Alan is considering 1982 very carefully, the strong contenders in this year are awesome.

    I've just had another look at the contenders and - OMG!

    shocked

    Do I have to choose?
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2010
    If you said 1982 as a whole is your favorite score(s) then I would have no problem with that. 1982 is one of the very best years for film music!

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2010
    Erik Woods wrote
    If you said 1982 as a whole is your favorite score(s) then I would have no problem with that. 1982 is one of the very best years for film music!

    -Erik-


    It is indeed. Two of my all-time favourites in that year.
    I am extremely serious.
  4. Erik Woods wrote
    If you said 1982 as a whole is your favorite score(s) then I would have no problem with that. 1982 is one of the very best years for film music!

    I will chose one that raises itself slightly above the rest but there's very little between five scores from five different composers. But excluding one top flight name that's going to disappoint some.

    I'll have a name by the end of the evening.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  5. Thor wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    If you said 1982 as a whole is your favorite score(s) then I would have no problem with that. 1982 is one of the very best years for film music!

    -Erik-


    It is indeed. Two of my all-time favourites in that year.


    What is the other favourite year?
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2010
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Thor wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    If you said 1982 as a whole is your favorite score(s) then I would have no problem with that. 1982 is one of the very best years for film music!

    -Erik-


    It is indeed. Two of my all-time favourites in that year.


    What is the other favourite year?


    Hm?
    I am extremely serious.
  6. I misread it as "Two of my all-time favourite years"!

    shame biggrin
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  7. 1982 - Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan - James Horner

    I can't put my decision off any longer and I've gone with the one that I grew up with and have more of a connection with compared with the other possible choices for this year. Each one of the other scores I didn't see the movie at the time it was released.

    I remember buying this LP and listening to it on our "music centre" (as they were called then). And I loved the original tracks featured. "Enterprise Clears Moorings" was a great track to hear at home after hearing it in the film to the (mostly) repeated footage taken from the first film. Goldsmith scored the scene better but Horner's version wasn't far behind. And tracks such as "Surprise Attack", "Kirk's Explosive Reply", "Battle In The Mutara Nebula" and "Genesis Countdown" were ones that were played again and again once I had transferred the LP to cassette. Great examples of Horner at his best both in terms of action scoring. Horner's main theme was a bit of a step down from Goldsmith's title theme but Horner's end title sequence is a great piece of music.

    The recent expansion added a whole other dimension after having been so familiar with the LP selection: hiring out a VHS video of the film so I could hear the music in context again, buying the video when it was released and going through the film frame by frame (or as best you could with video) noting down where all the action happened with which passages of music. All that added suspense music for the Federation officers "under the influence" fills out the whole score wonderfully. A worthy expansion.

    The other scores that get a very honourable mention are Poledouris' Conan The Barbarian, John Carpenter's Halloween III: The Season of The Witch, Goldsmith's Poltergeist (I would pick this as a first choice on any other day - and maybe after the upcoming FSM release) and Morricone's The Thing. Each one has its own merits and could easily be number one choice in most peoples' lists (except maybe for Halloween III!).

    No First Blood or (and this is where I may get some grief) no E.T.? They do have their moments (and, for me, the Rambo franchise has a more enjoyable score to come.)

    And TV theme(s)? Appropriately enough with the recent death of Leslie Nielsen, I'd have to mention Ira Newborn's Police Squad! (in colour) - a great pick-me-up track.

    Surely 1983 can't be as hard as this year's crop of scores? (There's Dr. Rumack comeback just waiting to be said somewhere.)
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2010
    I won't beat up on you for your choice, Alan, it's a damn worthy choice in one hell of a phenomenal year for film music. beer
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  8. Timmer wrote
    I won't beat up on you for your choice, Alan, it's a damn worthy choice in one hell of a phenomenal year for film music. beer

    Go on. Let me hear your perspective on an alternate choice.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2010
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    Timmer wrote
    I won't beat up on you for your choice, Alan, it's a damn worthy choice in one hell of a phenomenal year for film music. beer

    Go on. Let me hear your perspective on an alternate choice.


    Will do.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2010
    You might be surprised!? wink
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt