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      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010
    Nautilus wrote
    It has bland orchestrations, it's far too long, and very repetitive. even the main theme is the love theme from Mask of the Zorro.

    I'm not fan of partition either.


    Zorro! What! That's about as bad as saying that Time Machine's main theme is a rip-off of Goldsmith's The Edge. Similar orchestration and structure does not mean that one is a rip-off of another. A chocolate chip cookie is not a chocolate chip brownie is not a chocolate chip fudge bar, and there are probably about five thousand different recipes for each. That does not mean they are ripping each other off, and it does not mean they are the same, except perhaps to the very unobservant and those without discernment.
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
  1. Are you saying that most of reviewers of filmmusic are "very unobservant and without discernment"?

    Time Machine was temped with the Goldsmith theme. This is the typical Hollywood "I want this, but not to get my assed sued" approach.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010 edited
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Are you saying that most of reviewers of filmmusic are "very unobservant and without discernment"?

    Time Machine was temped with the Goldsmith theme. This is the typical Hollywood "I want this, but not to get my assed sued" approach.


    Yes, actually, I am. For example, some of them didn't even pick up on the number of themes in Powell's X-men score, because they couldn't figure out that the Barry-orchestrated parts were actually using the main theme and not a separate theme. Things like that make me lose my faith that reviewers of film music are actually paying attention to what they're reviewing and not just typing the first thing that comes to mind.

    And temping a score to get similar-sounding music is not a bad thing. In fact, is that not the whole point of temping? How else are musically-illiterate directors supposed to communicate what kind of music they are looking for? If Badelt had pulled a Horner with Goldsmith's theme, that would be one thing. But he didn't. They aren't the same melody at all. They don't even create quite the same feeling.

    And yes, I am being an arrogant fool, because I know you are much more musically and filmicly educated than I am. beer
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010
    Nautilus wrote
    Addictive main themes, and impressive sound design. The people who attacks this score, are extremely unfair.


    Actually, we ATTACKERS are being very fair!

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010 edited
    Scribe wrote
    That's about as bad as saying that Time Machine's main theme is a rip-off of Goldsmith's The Edge.


    Well, it is. The Edge was used in the temp track. Oh, and Tyler's Partition Theme is heavily influenced by Horner's Zorro Love Theme!

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010
    Just for you, Matt! wink

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010 edited
    I just posted something and it got deleted. confused

    edit: oh, wait. That's because Erik linked to another thread. Fuck, that confused me.
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010
    Erik Woods wrote
    Just for you, Matt! wink

    -Erik-


    It's clear the Edge was the inspiration. But it should be clear to you to Klaus didn't copy it note for note, . He took Goldsmith's expansive vista theme and refashioned it as an adventure theme, though he did arrange it in the same fashion. So he's correct in asserting that it's not the same melody. It's like the whole Total Recall/Conan the Barbarian thing. Similar but ultimately different.
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010
    NP: Nemesis - Two Steps from Hell

    Great stuff here. Tons of homages littered through out but it's just really well done. In parts of the album's running time, you won't even know that it's all synth.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010
    lp wrote
    It's clear the Edge was the inspiration. But it should be clear to you to Klaus didn't copy it note for note, . He took Goldsmith's expansive vista theme and refashioned it as an adventure theme, though he did arrange it in the same fashion. So he's correct in asserting that it's not the same melody. It's like the whole Total Recall/Conan the Barbarian thing. Similar but ultimately different.


    I never claimed it was the same melody... maybe I did... and the name of the Copy and Paste thread should be changed but this is just another sad example of temp love and Badelt (or probably more accuratly the director) really fell in love with it.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010
    Erik Woods wrote
    lp wrote
    It's clear the Edge was the inspiration. But it should be clear to you to Klaus didn't copy it note for note, . He took Goldsmith's expansive vista theme and refashioned it as an adventure theme, though he did arrange it in the same fashion. So he's correct in asserting that it's not the same melody. It's like the whole Total Recall/Conan the Barbarian thing. Similar but ultimately different.


    I never claimed it was the same melody... maybe I did... and the name of the Copy and Paste thread should be changed but this is just another sad example of temp love and Badelt (or probably more accuratly the director) really fell in love with it.

    -Erik-


    Yeah... Klaus is clearly capable of writing something just as "good" as the theme he was inspired by.
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010
    NP: Live Free or Die Hard - "Copter Chase" - Marco Beltrami

    This track is about about building on the a simple rhythm in a very linear way, similar to how Goldsmith might have approached it, though not really. One of the best track on the album.
  2. Scribe wrote
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Are you saying that most of reviewers of filmmusic are "very unobservant and without discernment"?

    Time Machine was temped with the Goldsmith theme. This is the typical Hollywood "I want this, but not to get my assed sued" approach.


    Yes, actually, I am. For example, some of them didn't even pick up on the number of themes in Powell's X-men score, because they couldn't figure out that the Barry-orchestrated parts were actually using the main theme and not a separate theme. Things like that make me lose my faith that reviewers of film music are actually paying attention to what they're reviewing and not just typing the first thing that comes to mind.

    And temping a score to get similar-sounding music is not a bad thing. In fact, is that not the whole point of temping? How else are musically-illiterate directors supposed to communicate what kind of music they are looking for? If Badelt had pulled a Horner with Goldsmith's theme, that would be one thing. But he didn't. They aren't the same melody at all. They don't even create quite the same feeling.

    And yes, I am being an arrogant fool, because I know you are much more musically and filmicly educated than I am. beer


    Depends on the composer, Matt. Have you heard Goldsmith's Sum of All Fears? That movie was temped with Crimson Tide, does it sound anything like Zimmer? Except maybe a synth rhythm and a chord progression used once or twice there is NO influence.

    Temp-track is to used to edit a scene. Nothing more than that. Goldsmith could have used a bit of Zimmerish relation between orchestra and electronics and choir, but he never comes close to taking even a note. To me temp-track is about providing solutions, not notes. Or style.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010
    NP: City Slickers II: The Legend of Curly's Gold - Marc Shaiman

    The size, scope and production values of this sequel score tops the original in every shape and form. The classic main theme is back along with all the other thematic material from the first film and Shaiman wonderfully and creatively expands on them in this score with precision. Shaiman's orchestrations are tight!!! Shaiman also introduces another western theme into his palette to play with as well as a chorus in "There's Gold in Them Thar Hills" which adds a mystical, magical, awe-inspiring feel to the score. Quotes from other westerns are wonderfully and purposely sprinkled throughout the score and the action music is thunderous, playful and exciting! The albums ends on a flourish which is brilliant captured by engineer Shawn Murphy in one of his strongest recordings to date!

    Great score! Highly recommended!

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010 edited
    PawelStroinski wrote

    Depends on the composer, Matt. Have you heard Goldsmith's Sum of All Fears? That movie was temped with Crimson Tide, does it sound anything like Zimmer? Except maybe a synth rhythm and a chord progression used once or twice there is NO influence.

    Temp-track is to used to edit a scene. Nothing more than that. Goldsmith could have used a bit of Zimmerish relation between orchestra and electronics and choir, but he never comes close to taking even a note. To me temp-track is about providing solutions, not notes. Or style.


    But you don't hire Jerry Goldsmith so he can copy Hans Zimmer.

    But, I'm sure you know that there's been numerous examples of directors who fell in love with the theme or piece of music from the temp track and asked that the composer hired on to work it in.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010
    Which is why I blame the producers and directors more for temp love than I do the composers.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010
    Marselus wrote
    Timmer wrote
    Anthony wrote
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    Marselus wrote
    In S02E16's main titles there's a supercool 80´s version of the theme.

    Now you come to mention this, yes there is!!


    Oh God, can't wait for this!


    I'd like to hear this too! That theme is very catchy aand with a title sequence that's a throwback to the 1960's-70's.

    Your wish is my command


    And pretty much exactly how I imagined it would sound.

    Thanks beer
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010
    lp wrote
    similar to how Goldsmith might have approached it, though not really.


    Glad you cleared that up. Or didn't.




    wink
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010
    Anthony wrote
    lp wrote
    similar to how Goldsmith might have approached it, though not really.


    Glad you cleared that up. Or didn't.




    wink


    LOL. I think that the rhythmic action style that Marco employs is something that came from the Goldsmith style, given that he was Goldsmith's protege, but Marco's certainly made it unique to his stylistic repertoire. Does that clear things up a bit more? cool
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010
    NP: E.T. - John Williams

    The original MCA Records release. I love, love, LOVE this album!

    punk

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  3. Anthony wrote
    lp wrote
    similar to how Goldsmith might have approached it, though not really.


    Glad you cleared that up. Or didn't.




    wink


    This post was insightful. Or not. tongue
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
    • CommentAuthorKatiek
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010
    Wonderful World of Brothers Grimm by Harline and Merrill - and I've got that darn lalalalalalalala track running through my head all day at work!
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010
    NP: Lair (Promo) - John Debney and Kevin Kaska

    Much better sound than the iTunes release and contains a few cues not commercially available!

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  4. Graeme Revell - The Negotiator

    Possibly my favorite Graeme Revell score, though I didn't hear some fan favorites yet, including Red Planet (yes I know, I will make amends soon).

    Good action thriller score for a very good film, possibly one of my favorites. I haven't seen it for quite a while. The reason why I love the movie is no only the very good acting from all talent involved, especially the way Kevin Spacey and Samuel L. Jackson play off each other, but also the fact that it largely features SWAT teams depicted in a rather realistic way (Hollywood's been always doing fine with special operation teams and I must say that I have a thing for them since I played Police Quest: SWAT as a 10-11 years old kid).

    The score works very well in the movie. Musically, Revell (a composer I don't like usually, him being too ambient at times and honestly knowing he has a musical degree, namely that he is a professional French horn player and usually his orchestrations are worse than Hans Zimmer's, which is a testament to his talent knowing that Michael Giacchino works with Tim Simonec too) makes one of the first MV-inspired scores not written by anybody from the group. It has enough to call it still a Graeme Revell score (the brass writing is recognizable), but some of the choral/orchestral progressions do recall Crimson Tide. Had this score been heard by more people, the main title (used famously in a commercial) would be recognized as a mid-90s classic, which it definitely is to me.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2010
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Graeme Revell - The Negotiator

    Possibly my favorite Graeme Revell score, though I didn't hear some fan favorites yet, including Red Planet (yes I know, I will make amends soon).

    Good action thriller score for a very good film, possibly one of my favorites. I haven't seen it for quite a while. The reason why I love the movie is no only the very good acting from all talent involved, especially the way Kevin Spacey and Samuel L. Jackson play off each other, but also the fact that it largely features SWAT teams depicted in a rather realistic way (Hollywood's been always doing fine with special operation teams and I must say that I have a thing for them since I played Police Quest: SWAT as a 10-11 years old kid).

    The score works very well in the movie. Musically, Revell (a composer I don't like usually, him being too ambient at times and honestly knowing he has a musical degree, namely that he is a professional French horn player and usually his orchestrations are worse than Hans Zimmer's, which is a testament to his talent knowing that Michael Giacchino works with Tim Simonec too) makes one of the first MV-inspired scores not written by anybody from the group. It has enough to call it still a Graeme Revell score (the brass writing is recognizable), but some of the choral/orchestral progressions do recall Crimson Tide. Had this score been heard by more people, the main title (used famously in a commercial) would be recognized as a mid-90s classic, which it definitely is to me.


    The Main Title to this score was written by Craig Armstrong, and is titled "Rise" and can be found on his non-film album, The Space Between Us.
  5. How come he is not credited in the movie?

    And how come that after the Main TItle comes a purely Revell piece?
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2010 edited
    PawelStroinski wrote
    How come he is not credited in the movie?

    And how come that after the Main Title comes a purely Revell piece?


    Speaking of temp track.......

    I don't know how to answer your second question though..... But the main title music doesn't reappear anywhere in the movie. Quite odd, don't you think?

    All I can say is that Craig's album came out the same year as The Negotiator. February 24, 1998 vs July 28, 1998. Craig's been working on that album for a while.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2010
    Erik Woods wrote
    NP: E.T. - John Williams

    The original MCA Records release. I love, love, LOVE this album!

    punk

    -Erik-


    A truly TRULY sublime album, this score, in this format, means more to me than any other score.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  6. lp wrote
    PawelStroinski wrote
    How come he is not credited in the movie?

    And how come that after the Main Title comes a purely Revell piece?


    Speaking of temp track.......

    I don't know how to answer your second question though..... But the main title music doesn't reappear anywhere in the movie. Quite odd, don't you think?

    All I can say is that Craig's album came out the same year as The Negotiator. February 24, 1998 vs July 28, 1998. Craig's been working on that album for a while.


    Crediting the piece to Armstrong is correct. I think if NEGOTIATOR had come out post-300/TITUS, they would have been more careful about crediting it.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorkeky
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2010
    Total Recall - Jerry Goldsmith

    I still can't really like this album. There are some good tracks in it, for sure, but all those action materials sound rather non-melodic to my ears. I know that this is considered to be one of the peaks of action soundtracks but I can't help I prefer Horner's, Doyle's or Williams' action writing over Goldsmith's.
    The Dream and End of the Dream or even Big Jump are good but the rest of the action material is not for me.
    I will certainly give it some more tries, though.