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    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010 edited
    NP : THE FINAL CONFLICT - Jerry Goldsmith



    Now this, this is how a choral score is done! One of the great classics of film music and a huge favourite among fans of the genre and to think it was written for such a mediochre and weak third part of a trilogy.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    Ah here it is! How did this happen? How did the previous NP thread get bumped over this one? Anyways, I'll copy & paste my latest post on the other one:

    NP: Milk, Danny Elfman

    vomit I hate when Elfman does this. Why does he accept assignments that are clearly meant for others? This just isn't his kind of movie! There's a problem when I've listened to the 1-minute track labeled "HARVEY'S THEME" two or three times in a row and I STILL can't detect thematic material. Like everything, I'll keep giving it a chance... but still.

    All this talk about Lost on the other thread has made me want to pop in one of those CDs later on. Not because I like the music. I can't stand it. It blows my mind to hear you talk about the tons of character themes supposedly in it. But that's exactly why I'll pop it in again: to give myself another chance to pick out those themes. Not having seen enough of the show, my only chance to appreciate this is through discipline and repeated listenings.
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    Not supposedly in it, there ARE in it and they're prominently and evidently used in the show; but it's harder to trace them if you haven't watched it.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    HeeroJF wrote
    Ah here it is! How did this happen? How did the previous NP thread get bumped over this one? Anyways, I'll copy & paste my latest post on the other one:

    NP: Milk, Danny Elfman

    vomit I hate when Elfman does this. Why does he accept assignments that are clearly meant for others? This just isn't his kind of movie! There's a problem when I've listened to the 1-minute track labeled "HARVEY'S THEME" two or three times in a row and I STILL can't detect thematic material. Like everything, I'll keep giving it a chance... but still.

    All this talk about Lost on the other thread has made me want to pop in one of those CDs later on. Not because I like the music. I can't stand it. It blows my mind to hear you talk about the tons of character themes supposedly in it. But that's exactly why I'll pop it in again: to give myself another chance to pick out those themes. Not having seen enough of the show, my only chance to appreciate this is through discipline and repeated listenings.


    I think it helps enormously if you're a fan of the show, I'm not and in fact, I ended up hating it and giving up on it.

    Of the LOST scores that I've heard I do like it, it's damn fine music but at the same time I'm not crazy for it and I rarely listen to it.

    All power to those here that love it and think it's the best thing since Jesus invented marmalade, I just don't get the fanatical support confused
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  1. I want to echo Eric's sentiment about "Parting Words" from Lost season 1. That was the musical highlight of the show for me also. That was such a moment! Both visually and musically, the series never topped that, except maybe during the last episode. So maybe I'll need to get season 6 for the "Moving On" cue.
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010 edited
    NP: Grand Canyon - James Newton Howard

    I enjoy the 90s contemporary sound (with percussion and guitar) that JNH used. Anyone knows of more scores from James that feature a similar approach?
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    lp wrote
    NP: Grand Canyon - James Newton Howard

    I enjoy the 90s contemporary sound (with percussion and guitar) that JNH used. Anyone knows of more scores from James that feature a similar approach?


    Lee ( LSH ) is the man to ask.

    Agree with you on Grand Canyon, a superb and varied score, shame there's some good material missing from the album, JNH seemed to suffer from short album lengths, ALIVE springs to mind as an incredibly short album missing some superb material.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    Christodoulides wrote
    Not supposedly in it, there ARE in it and they're prominently and evidently used in the show; but it's harder to trace them if you haven't watched it.


    See, I'm on track 11 of the first CD right now... And the only truly stand-out theme is of course the gorgeous "Win One for the Reaper." Where are the other ones?? Mind you, I don't NEED themes to latch onto a score. Plenty of Michael Kamen scores have been semi-thematic or non-thematic altogether and I adore his ambient style. Same for Elliott Goldenthal. But Giacchino is just so..... quiet! And when he's not, it's drums-banging like on "World's Worst Beach Party" that's marginally more pleasant than Graeme Revell. I dunno, I just dunno. I WANT to like this, but...
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    It's full of themes and in season 1 are very prominent too, you'll have to listen to them if you give this cd a concentrated try without skipping tracks etc. Try Anthony's excellent guide.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    Oh, I never skip tracks. Never, ever. See, now the "main" theme just showed up again in "Charlie Hangs Around". But still nothing else. Where's that guide? I think I need it.
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    And listen to " Departing Sun", "charlie hangs around", " Life and Death", " Parting Words" of course and "oceanic 815".
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    Timmer wrote
    lp wrote
    NP: Grand Canyon - James Newton Howard

    I enjoy the 90s contemporary sound (with percussion and guitar) that JNH used. Anyone knows of more scores from James that feature a similar approach?


    Lee ( LSH ) is the man to ask.

    Agree with you on Grand Canyon, a superb and varied score, shame there's some good material missing from the album, JNH seemed to suffer from short album lengths, ALIVE springs to mind as an incredibly short album missing some superb material.


    Yeah. Grand Canyon works really well as a standalone listening experience, (even with that odd duck Fanfare at the end juxtaposing the hugely contemporary percussion-backed instrumental proceeding after it). It typifies the kind of scoring that JNH has done so effortlessly, yet remains hugely enjoyable to listen to.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    What's with having to search for themes? Is this why it's called LOST.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    .....coat.........
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    I skipped back to "Departing Sun" after Christodoulides' comment. Okay that *is* a melody. Clearly defined melody, something with the markings of a theme, no doubt. For in my book, for something to qualify as a theme it has to be a recurring melody. It has to pop up two or three times throughout the duration of the album, at least. Where else can I find that theme? (which, by the way, totally reminds me of something from Amistad)

    Okay. Close call. I was about to click Submit but something wonderful just happened. I just picked up that same Amistad-like theme in "Navel Gazing". Such a wonderful feeling to pick out themes for the first time. There's hope for me and this score yet!!
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    You might want to visit http://www.michaelgiacchinomusic.com/fourtrombones if you are having a tough time hearing all the thematic material in Giacchino's scores.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    Yeap. And as for the repetitions, you have to see the show, the themes come and go all the time in almost each episode and that's valid for all 6 seasons.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    Timmer wrote
    NP : THE FINAL CONFLICT - Jerry Goldsmith



    Now this, this is how a choral score is done! One of the great classics of film music and a huge favourite among fans of the genre and to think it was written for such a mediochre and weak third part of a trilogy.


    A bit back to front but I'm playing this...

    NP : THE OMEN - Jerry Goldsmith



    Brilliant! I'll probably play Damien Omen II next but I'm wishing I'd played them all in order now.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    Christodoulides wrote
    Yeap. And as for the repetitions, you have to see the show, the themes come and go all the time in almost each episode and that's valid for all 6 seasons.


    So what you're telling me is that it's Library Music? Giacchino wrote a theme for "Departing Sun" that you only hear it about once or twice on the CD, but in the show itself they recycle that cue and played it many times?

    I always assumed this was the explanation behind all this. And I shouldn't be surprised, it's a fairly common practice in television music. That's why I can have a baised appreciation of many anime soundtracks, because they tend to have "generic omg-action theme" or "tender theme #3" that they keep playing again and again in the show, until you're addicted to them. But on CD the same pieces might pass by unnoticed by someone who's never heard them.
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010 edited
    HeeroJF wrote
    Christodoulides wrote
    Yeap. And as for the repetitions, you have to see the show, the themes come and go all the time in almost each episode and that's valid for all 6 seasons.


    So what you're telling me is that it's Library Music? Giacchino wrote a theme for "Departing Sun" that you only hear it about once or twice on the CD, but in the show itself they recycle that cue and played it many times?


    No. It's most definitely NOT library music.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    Library music? You're a man of extremes for sure.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    Well? I just see Chris' comment up there: "the themes come and go all the time in almost each episode". Are they different recordings not present on the CD, or the exact same? If the latter, that's the definition of Library Music. And there's nothing wrong with that, in television.

    btw, I found "Kate's Motel" quite lovely by paying close attention. Still can't say I ever heard that theme anywhere else on the CD, therefore I hesitate to call it a "theme", but still lovely track.
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
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      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    They're different recordings, with different instrumentations, and often different interpretations and timings. The problem is that they're so many of them, the thematic palette is so rich and complex that it can't possibly be sufficiently represented on an 80 minute album. So when you're hearing a melody on the album, it's probably a "theme" and the fact that you only hear it once on the album doesn't mean that's the only place it was used in the show.

    I think the most easily grasped example for a Lost-music newcomer is Season 4 with the "Oceanic 6" theme. Download and listen to "There's No Place Like Home", "Of Mice and Ben" and "Landing Party". Same theme, three different arrangements with different moods.
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    Giacchino uses the same melodies, motifs and themes but they are all newly composed, re-orchestrated, re-arranged, newly recorded, etc. They don't just plop an already existing cue from season 1 into season 4 a la the Star Wars prequels.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    Star Wars prequels did this??? How could I have missed this?

    Ok, Scribe, that makes sense. So Giacchino did score each season wall-to-wall with original writings, but they just couldn't fit all variations of each theme on the albums. See, THAT's why we need C&C!

    I just listened to "Parting Words". Great track! Thematic? Not that I could tell! If there's a theme in there, it was lost on me. But man, beautiful melodic lines. And now of course "Oceanic 815" closes the album with that one recognizable "main theme." I guess all the other themes just can't compare to how beautiful that one is. Or catchy.

    The best part of Giacchino's music still remains his humorous track titles. That, and Medal of Honor.
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010 edited
    We do NOT need a C&C score for Lost, it would just not work. And that's coming from me!

    There are something like 57 hours of original music in the show, of which just under ten (fuck! shocked ) hours have been released!

    Look at some of the extremes too - there's a motif for Christian that shows up in a strange synthy form in White Rabbit, appears a few episodes later on the piano (I think) in All The Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues, and then doesn't pop up again until Something Nice Back Home in season 4. Even the smallest things you might disregard have some sort of significance in the grand scheme of things. devil

    Now onto making this Temple suite...
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      CommentAuthorEric
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    NP : Under The Tuscan Sun - Christophe Beck

    Wonderful !
    "Simplicity is the key to brilliance"
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      CommentAuthorHeeroJF
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    Ahah! And I just picked up again the "Amistad"-like theme at the very end of "Oceanic 815". Great stuff! Whiew, some scores just naturally grow on you and it's a pure pleasure discovering them. But if I *do* end up liking Lost, I swear I'll never have struggled so much with any other score. It's been like wrestling in tumbtacks.
    ''The mandate, as well as the benefit, of responsibility is the ability to tell when one can afford to be irresponsible.'' - Me
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    Anthony wrote
    We do NOT need a C&C score for Lost, it would just not work. And that's coming from me!

    There are something like 57 hours of original music in the show, of which just under ten (fuck! shocked ) hours have been released!

    Look at some of the extremes too - there's a motif for Christian that shows up in a strange synthy form in White Rabbit, appears a few episodes later on the piano (I think) in All The Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues, and then doesn't pop up again until Something Nice Back Home in season 4. Even the smallest things you might disregard have some sort of significance in the grand scheme of things. devil

    Now onto making this Temple suite...


    57 hours!? That's about 6 times the amount of all of John Corigliano's film scoring career.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2010
    That's what MG told me. He wasn't completely sure but it was some crazy amount.