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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2012
    Erik Woods wrote
    Like I said it isn't perfect. I didn't spend a whole lot of time on it either. I probably would have cut some stuff out and may have used a few different musical selections, sound effects, etc. This is what I had to use at the moment and I think Williams march rhythm helps Superman fly more so than the generic, bland, choral junk used in the trailer. And the whaling woman... please put a bullet in her!

    Looking back on my cut... more positive is what I was going for! All this doom and gloom around Superman doesn't sit right with me so I wanted to change the tone! Superman is all about being positive! Being good. Fighting against tyranny. Fight for justice! People, especially kids look up to him. That's what I wanted change in the tone of the trailer. I wanted him to be a super-hero! Someone who saves the day. Sure, there's going to be some inner turmoil, I appreciate that (but thats' only PART of the character) but Superman is a colourful character (just look at the suit) and a hero of mythic proportions. He's larger than life and that's what Williams' Superman music brings to the table!

    -Erik-


    Yeah, I really understand what your Superman is. My point really was about the futility of adding Black & White music over Gray visuals. If you wanted to prove that music can change the visual experience, then you''re really preaching to the converted. But IMHO, I wanted to find out whether the Nolan/Snyder version of Superman can be improved with John Williams' music, and the result was pretty much a redundant non-point for me.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2012
    Demetris wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    The people at JWFAN seem to think it's this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4PqWjug … r_embedded

    -Erik-


    Thanks Erik, that's it! They all sound the same Goddamnit!


    lol Best post of the day! lol
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2012 edited
    lp wrote
    Yeah, I really understand what your Superman is. My point really was about the futility of adding Black & White music over Gray visuals. If you wanted to prove that music can change the visual experience, then you''re really preaching to the converted. But IMHO, I wanted to find out whether the Nolan/Snyder version of Superman can be improved with John Williams' music, and the result was pretty much a redundant non-point for me.


    I think Williams' rhythmic march improved it ten fold. I got GOOSEBUMPS when he streaks past the screen and Williams music carries him off.

    Look, how's this? I'll wait until this is on DVD, rip an action sequence and then lay some Williams music over top the way I did with Batman Begins. Then we'll see if Williams' more positive tone can match the gritty, dark and serious world of Christopher Nolan. Remember there is more to Williams' score then the positive march!

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  1. Scribe wrote
    Steven wrote
    Iron Man, The Avengers, Thor?


    Are all fun superhero movies?
    At least compared to the Batman trilogy and the apparent tone of Man of Steel.
    Thor is probably the darkest of those 3 and even in that one the villains are a cheesy 1-dimensional ice-man and a hammy "I'm just doing it for the attention" Loki. Not very dark.

    Whereas Batman features legitimate (if broadly-stroked) moral dilemmas and truly psychotic villains...and I expect Man of Steel to do the same given the track record of those involved.


    Whereas creating a web of deception to steal a kingdom, weaponising technology for profitable ends or for promoting fascism aren't legitimate moral dilemmas.

    Nolan's been given a fairly long leash for his sense of seriousness. Particularly in the third film.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2012
    franz_conrad wrote
    Whereas creating a web of deception to steal a kingdom,


    That was presented as Star Wars-like family melodrama, not a serious drama. I was actually disappointed by this presentation, in the actual mythology Loki is quite an interesting character and I feel like they massively simplified him in the typical Hollywood way.

    weaponising technology for profitable ends


    I didn't feel that this was ever seriously confronted in the Iron Man films, it was just there in the background, much like genocide and racism and other profound issues are floating around in the background of the "fun" Star Wars OT. It's not so much the issues themselves that make a movie "fun/light" or "serious/dark" so much as the tone and how or how deeply they are presented.

    or for promoting fascism

    See above, although honestly I'm not sure exactly what you're referencing here, as I don't remember this being a serious motivation for any character in The Avengers.

    Nolan's been given a fairly long leash for his sense of seriousness. Particularly in the third film.


    Probably true. But again, tone more than actual subject matter seems to be the deciding factor IMO. People were criticizing the Man of Steel trailer for being too dark/serious. I'm saying I don't mind if the DC films (I don't think Green Lantern counts because I'm sure everyone wishes the film had never been made) continue to play with the dark/serious tone, since Marvel is staying far away from it so far.

    Bane and the Joker are the stuff of nightmares, or at least as much of such as you can reasonably fit into a PG13 film. Loki on the otherhand is laughable (though Whedon wrote him better than whoever wrote Thor and will hopefully continue to add layers to his motives) and the Iron Man villains are pure cliche.
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
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      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2012
    All that being said, Erik is right, Superman is supposed to be a more heroic and inspiring character. I hope Zimmer is given free reign to create that kind of music, at least in the scenes that it would be appropriate. I have full faith that he can do it if he's allowed to...picturing something like the love theme from At World's End, which works fantastically as a heroic action piece or a stirring romance/drama interlude, just with a bit more brass and a bit less woodwinds this time....
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
  2. The red skull was the fascism case. My point was merely that these are always about some kind of bogeyman that connects to something, the real issue - as you say - is whether one is allowed to make a serious comment with anything other than a sense of utter seriousness.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  3. Captain Future wrote
    That trailer just made me order Armstrong's "Elizabeth: The Golden Age".

    Great trailer! I'm really looking forward to this film. The teaser trailer did nothing for me, but this trailer looked fantastic. The use of Armstrong's and Rahman's (very good) score to Elizabeth: The Golden Age was a good choice, I thought. It's no Superman March, though that's clearly not the kind of score these filmmakers want.

    I will be interested to see what Zimmer does with this. I don't think his work for Nolan will necessarily predict what he'll do for Snyder. LEGEND OF THE GUARDIANS: REALLY LONG-TITLED OWL MOVIE had a pretty decent and very orchestral score. Who knows what Snyder will want? I'm actually looking forward to this score more than I've looked forward to anything Zimmer has written in the last several years.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2012 edited
    To be honest, Erik, I didn't think the Williams music fit the tone of the trailer all that well. It felt at odds with it (disregarding the obvious synchronization difficulties from the march onwards). But thanks for the experiment!

    It just proved to me that this is a whole other take on the character that deserves to be just that -- a new take! Screw the optimism, black/white dichotomies and the unabashed heroism. That worked well in the 1978 film, but that doesn't seem to be what this is about -- a more nuanced portrait of the 'man behind the mask', so to speak. I think the franchise desperately needed that in order to stay relevant.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2012
    Seems we're well back into the grim 'n' gritty eighties with a self-doubting, ineffectual Superman.
    Oh well. Plus ça change...

    But I *do* wish it'd be a proper Superman story rather than an "origins" film YET AGAIN.
    At least Superman Returns got that right (although preciously little else).

    Anyway, lots of assumptions obviously, based on a very brief trailer.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2012
    Erik Woods wrote
    lp wrote
    Yeah, I really understand what your Superman is. My point really was about the futility of adding Black & White music over Gray visuals. If you wanted to prove that music can change the visual experience, then you''re really preaching to the converted. But IMHO, I wanted to find out whether the Nolan/Snyder version of Superman can be improved with John Williams' music, and the result was pretty much a redundant non-point for me.


    I think Williams' rhythmic march improved it ten fold. I got GOOSEBUMPS when he streaks past the screen and Williams music carries him off.

    Look, how's this? I'll wait until this is on DVD, rip an action sequence and then lay some Williams music over top the way I did with Batman Begins. Then we'll see if Williams' more positive tone can match the gritty, dark and serious world of Christopher Nolan. Remember there is more to Williams' score then the positive march!

    -Erik-


    I thought that the original point of the exercise was to demonstrate how wrong the filmmakers were to not use the John Williams' Superman March/Theme? My opinion is that the tone of the trailer was to promote the gray makeup of Kal-El, not single-sided optimism. And, tonally, positive "sounding" music kinda negates the "dark, serious" and stark visuals, which only serve to muddle the message.

    And speaking of the BB edits you did. The best one was the Trevor Jones one. But given how ineffectual the Molossus cue was for that chase sequence, any action cues would have functioned better.

    And about Batman, I'm a big fan of how effective Zimmer's Batman theme became in TDKR. The evolution of the once brave, brass notes into a muted, distanced and wavering self.... excellence.
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2012
    Martijn wrote
    Seems we're well back into the grim 'n' gritty eighties with a self-doubting, ineffectual Superman.
    Oh well. Plus ça change...

    But I *do* wish it'd be a proper Superman story rather than an "origins" film YET AGAIN.
    At least Superman Returns got that right (although preciously little else).

    Anyway, lots of assumptions obviously, based on a very brief trailer.


    I don't mind it, since Amazing Spider-Man made it work rather well, and especially if they're planning for a full trilogy like Nolan's done for Batman.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2012
    lp wrote
    I thought that the original point of the exercise was to demonstrate how wrong the filmmakers were to not use the John Williams' Superman March/Theme?


    Boy, did you ever miss the point? I never expected the film makers to use Williams' theme and nor do I hope for them to use it in this film. This is a reboot so when Zimmer scores the picture I expect something completely different.

    I just wanted to see/hear how the old Superman music would work. I liked it and I'm getting a lot of twitter feedback from various people saying that they liked it as well.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2012
    lp wrote
    I don't mind it, since Amazing Spider-Man made it work rather well, and especially if they're planning for a full trilogy like Nolan's done for Batman.


    I don't think the origin story - or at least the way they told it - worked in The Amazing Spider-Man. It was long and drawn out. While I do agree that the origin story is usually the most interesting aspect of a super-hero film, dragging it on and on and on isn't a good thing. I went to see The Amazing Spider Man to see Spider-Man not a rom-comesque tale with only a few minutes of Spidey in action.

    BTW, the only real super-hero films to get away with a prolonged origin tale, IMO, is Shyamalan's Unbreakable and Superman: The Movie.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  4. Erik Woods wrote
    BTW, the only real super-hero films to get away with a prolonged origin tale, IMO, is Shyamalan's Unbreakable and Superman: The Movie.

    -Erik-


    Don't forget ROBOCOP.
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2012 edited
    Erik Woods wrote
    lp wrote
    I thought that the original point of the exercise was to demonstrate how wrong the filmmakers were to not use the John Williams' Superman March/Theme?


    Boy, did you ever miss the point? I never expected the film makers to use Williams' theme and nor do I hope for them to use it in this film. This is a reboot so when Zimmer scores the picture I expect something completely different.

    I just wanted to see/hear how the old Superman music would work. I liked it and I'm getting a lot of twitter feedback from various people saying that they liked it as well.

    -Erik-


    Are they liking it because it proves to them you can't have a Superman movie/trailer without the old Williams March? I mean that's what most FSMers complain about.
    •  
      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2012
    Mike Skerritt wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    BTW, the only real super-hero films to get away with a prolonged origin tale, IMO, is Shyamalan's Unbreakable and Superman: The Movie.

    -Erik-


    Don't forget ROBOCOP.


    And Batman Begins, and Super.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2012
    I didn't like Batman Begins for just that. The origin story is painfully long!

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2012
    Erik Woods wrote
    I didn't like Batman Begins for just that. The origin story is painfully long!

    -Erik-


    Eh, it was just long enough.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2012
    Erik Woods wrote
    I didn't like Batman Begins for just that. The origin story is painfully long!

    -Erik-


    It was interminable.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2012
    Mike Skerritt wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    BTW, the only real super-hero films to get away with a prolonged origin tale, IMO, is Shyamalan's Unbreakable and Superman: The Movie.

    -Erik-


    Don't forget ROBOCOP.


    Talking of ROBOCOP and having seen recent pictures of the remake doesn't exactly fill me with joy slant

    To be honest I don't even see a point in remaking it, it was never broke in the first place ( as long as you discount Robo 3 and the TV series ), yet another display of imaginative originality by the film makers. rolleyes
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2012 edited
    IMO, Burton's Batman got the origin story just right. And if I'm not mistaken it lasted less then 3 minutes and was inserted into the MIDDLE of the film, which means we got to see Batman less then 5 minutes into the picture. :satisfying:

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2012
    Erik Woods wrote
    IMO, Burton's Batman got the origin story just right. And if I'm not mistaken it lasted less then 3 minutes and was inserted into the MIDDLE of the film, which means we got to see Batman less then 5 minutes into the picture. :satisfying:

    -Erik-


    Right, and don't forget the whole movie was pretty much about the origin of the Joker and how he basically created Batman.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2012
    (Which was completely against canon, but hey-ho. It's Burton. And the vision was grand. I forgive him.)
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeDec 12th 2012
    lp wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    IMO, Burton's Batman got the origin story just right. And if I'm not mistaken it lasted less then 3 minutes and was inserted into the MIDDLE of the film, which means we got to see Batman less then 5 minutes into the picture. :satisfying:

    -Erik-


    Right, and don't forget the whole movie was pretty much about the origin of the Joker and how he basically created Batman.


    Reminds me that a friend of mine said the film should have been called The Joker.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeDec 13th 2012
    Martijn wrote
    (Which was completely against canon, but hey-ho. It's Burton. And the vision was grand. I forgive him.)


    Best things about that movie included The Batmobile, The Joker (not his back story), the production design, the score.

    I didn't care for the story at all.