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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeSep 12th 2011 edited
    For those with a Scandinavian understanding, you can also hear my defense of the movie (and poetic film in general) on this recent 1-hour radio special on NRK P2, in opposition to one of Norways' most famous film critics, who disliked it:

    http://nettradio.nrk.no/default.php?kanal=p2

    search for "kulturhuset", click 08.09.2011, time: 14-15.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeSep 12th 2011 edited
    Hey franz, I got this question from someone. Do you know the answer? I've translated it to Norwegian:

    1. What is the music used over the wounded dinosaur, and why is it repeated over the scene when Jack returns to his mother after having thrown the night gown in the river?

    1. Is Desplat's music also the one you hear right after Jack has shot his brother with the pistol, when he walks through an old and decaying house?

    3. Where is the Gorecki piece heard?
    I am extremely serious.
  1. Thor wrote
    1. What is the music used over the wounded dinosaur, and why is it repeated over the scene when Jack returns to his mother after having thrown the night gown in the river?


    Gotta admit, you might have me there. By the wounded dinosaur, do you mean the dinosaur on the beach? Or the one by the riverside? It must be the one on the beach... and I'd need to see it again to remember the music there. I remember a bit of Tavener appeared before, and there was some Hanan Townsend droning style piece as well, which might appear when Jack steals the dress and throws it in the river, but that also comes before the scene you describe. Yeah, I think I need to see it again.

    Repetition of music is interesting in this film. Found music is shuffled around much like Kubrick would, linking moods and moments across the story. Often they are presented in new, quieter arrangements though, which is not something Kubrick tended to do (he tended towards static musical objects that didn't change with the narrative). The typical pattern in TREE OF LIFE is of two appearances, with the second appearance of a piece of music in some way relating that moment to the first. (E.g. Respighi's Andantino warmly underscores the growth in the womb of Jack and his parents early love. It returns in a piano arrangement from Hanan Townsend as Jack's father reflects on the failure of his career, and how he failed to see the things that mattered.)


    2. Is Desplat's music also the one you hear right after Jack has shot his brother with the pistol, when he walks through an old and decaying house?


    The track that appears as Jack walks through the house (quoting the apostle Paul), is a piano version of Zbigniew Preisner's 'Lacrimosa'. The orchestral/vocal version appears earlier during the beginning of the universe. The composer/arranger is one Hanan Townsend, who is responsible for many of the piano arrangements that appear in the film's second half. I think in this case he might be have been asked to produce an arrangement of 'Lacrimosa' that 'sounded like Desplat', because it does work in a similar way to Desplat's own cues for the film 'Childhood', but with different melodic content. The reason why Lacrimosa is being repeated at this point, is that I think given the circumstances of the brother's death, as he recalls this incident, Jack is wondering about how much his own nature might have contributed to his brother not being able to make it in the world. Certainly by consciously sensing a return to this music, it took my mind back to the emotion that had started this tour through memories. The epic pain of Lacrimosa creeps back quietly in the piano after this small but memorable act of violence.

    [Several of the key pieces appear in the film twice and sometimes in different arrangements -- e.g. Mahler, Respighi, Couperin, Tavener's Funeral Canticle.]

    One of Desplat's tracks occurs shortly after that, when Jack is reconciled to his brother. It's one of the few to mostly appear in entirety, and is called 'Clouds'.

    3. Where is the Gorecki piece heard?


    One night, the Mother tells the story of how the Father took her on a flight when they were courting. Shortly after, we see her floating in the front yard in front of the oak tree (a reference to Tarkovsky's Mirror, perhaps). Gorecki appears on the flight, and I think (but am not certain), partly carries over to the floating image.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 13th 2011 edited
    Thanks Michael, i've been reading those too. It's very interesting, to say the least, that films that spark all this discussion, thinking and analysis are still being made.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeSep 13th 2011 edited
    Fantastic that you keep a far more detailed memory of these things than I, franz. So thank you again. Couldn't the the use of piano Lacrimosa in the weathered house also signify loss and "dying" itself? I mean, the creation sequence with the huge choral arrangement is - in my view - a comment not only on the magnificence of creation, but also the immense tragedy that can appear when that self-same magnificence chooses to take away one of its creations (the brother). After all, 'lacrimosa' is latin for 'crying'.
    I am extremely serious.
  2. I think it's hard to be concrete as to what it means (and I doubt we'll get an answer from Malick). I've tried to just study the emotions each mention brings up for me, which may not be the same for others. The initial Lacrimosa appearance is the beginning of the search for a way through life -- from the death of a brother, a man searches the universe up to and beyond that death for solace and a 'way through life'. The Lacrimosa is just the spirit in which this search begins, in grief. Magnificent grief, of course.

    This musical signifier of the quest's motivation (magnificent grief) recurs in a stripped-down form when Jack's own way through life leads to a betrayal of his brother's trust. Specifically it accompanies the self-loathing of guilt. Why does Jack 'do the thing I hate' and 'not do the thing I want to do'? Was it this that led his brother to despair? Although it's not text within the film, I find I need to assume that Jack's brother's death was much like Malick's brother, a suicide at the age of 19. The wake of suicide - like an asteroid - forces all to re-examine themselves. What could everyone have done differently? Was it that moment back when we were teenagers, that made all the difference?

    There is another connection between the moments. One depicts the Big Bang, the other a smaller Bang ... insignificant in the universal scheme of things, but perhaps highly significant for Jack's brother, and certainly significant for Jack. The film's theme of the relationship between the macro and the micro, and the role of instinct and morality in both, is perhaps thrown into light by the comparison of these moments. (To me, the strength of Malick's slippery style allows viewers to find their own connections between things.)
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeSep 13th 2011
    Speaking of asteroids, do you know what music played when the asteroid/meteorite appears and crashes, causing the demise of the dinosaurs?

    It's interesting that you note that the film is basically structured around the cause and effect of the brother's death - both physically and metaphysically. I'm not sure it can properly explain the various paths of the narrative, although it may certainly help explain the path of the CHARACTERS' development.
    I am extremely serious.
  3. I'll come back to you on the asteroid. I hear it in my head, just can't remember the name. Berlioz, I think.

    Thor wrote
    It's interesting that you note that the film is basically structured around the cause and effect of the brother's death - both physically and metaphysically. I'm not sure it can properly explain the various paths of the narrative, although it may certainly help explain the path of the CHARACTERS' development.


    It's just an interpretation, one attempt to cut a path through the way the film works, and in some cases, I'm following the lead of some of the more compelling commentary I've read. When a film is this loose, you can fit many lines to the datapoints. The weakness of making it revolve around this event is that the film itself does not quite do that -- the death of the brother does not reoccur as a central event late in the film to convincing make the case that all that happens in the film should relate back to that idea. The reunion with the brother at the end makes a case that all between his death and that moment has been examination of the universe in light of that event, but you can kind of forgive people for missing that.

    My general read of the film:

    - Opening 5 minutes: Discussion of nature vs grace: 'no one who follows the way of grace comes to harm'
    - Following section (Parents learn of death of son, Sean Penn reflects on it on an anniversary): Someone who has followed the way of grace has come to harm. Parents return to the street where they lived. Penn wonders how his mother could have born it.
    - Life up to that moment (the macro): the universe begins, as does the earth, is nature vs grace already playing out?, it all ends again with an asteroid.
    - Life up to that moment (the micro): jack is conceived, jack is born, jack lives, jack gets a brother, they play as boys, jack sees death for the first time, jack feels the heavy hand of a father, without that grip he cuts loose when the father leaves...
    - The end of the earth / a vision of heaven / elevation of mother. Childhood is experienced again, but not a moment will be wasted this time, as all know the value of what they have. There is a final salute to all mothers who can tear themselves away from their children and give them up.
    - Jack emerges from his reflection on these matters.

    Such an interesting film. So heavy in some ways, but it touches on points and bridges moments with a pretty elusive touch. We're free to find a lot in it. In the end, while I suggest that there is a logic to it all, the reason I've watched the film several times is that I love being propelled through it. It carries you so well from one image to the next, one sound to the next.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  4. Thor, you may find this useful:

    ASTEROID music:
    Goodbye dinosaurs
    Grande Messe des Morts, Op. 5 (Requiem): 7. Domine Jesu Christe [Berlioz] (9:23–10:57)


    On the other link between music, the wounded dinosaur / post-dress music, here are the references:

    From seas to land/Leviathan/Dino babies
    Morning Prayers [Kancheli] (0:00–2:40)

    "Don't look at me"
    Morning Prayers [Kancheli] (1:26–4:15)


    I don't know that piece.

    This information gathered from this resource, which I just found:
    http://www.terrencemalick.org/2011/09/t … -list.html
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2011
    Hey, how come we didn't see that resource before?! Great find, thanks!! smile

    I seriously need to see the film again as soon as possible to link all this information. How many times have you seen it?
    I am extremely serious.
  5. I saw it three times, spaced a few weeks apart each time.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2011
    Michael, have you considered writing a proper essay about this film? You seem to know more about this in depth than anyone i've seen so far; especially focused on the use of music. Impressive.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  6. Maybe more music should be tracked into films from other sources? Original music for a film isn't getting the same level of analysis and/or discussion.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  7. FalkirkBairn wrote
    Maybe more music should be tracked into films from other sources? Original music for a film isn't getting the same level of analysis and/or discussion.


    I think it's the sort of film it is, rather than the source of the music. wink
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  8. Christodoulides wrote
    Michael, have you considered writing a proper essay about this film? You seem to know more about this in depth than anyone i've seen so far; especially focused on the use of music. Impressive.


    The thought comes to me every now and then. I remember though how little time I used to have when I was writing regularly online, which scarred me a bit. I have recently considered writing something lengthy about the way music works in film, although I'm not convinced other filmmakers would read it. (Or that I'd have the time to do it justice.)

    EDIT - actually, that's a poor excuse. It's just whether the time is worth it, that's all.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  9. franz_conrad wrote
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    Maybe more music should be tracked into films from other sources? Original music for a film isn't getting the same level of analysis and/or discussion.


    I think it's the sort of film it is, rather than the source of the music. wink

    Ah, okay. I haven't seen the film.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  10. Arty films by famous directors tend to generate more discussion/analysis, in general, than your average commercial film.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  11. franz_conrad wrote
    Arty films by famous directors tend to generate more discussion/analysis, in general, that your average commercial film.

    Well stop talking about them then! wink
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  12. I don't mean here -- obviously here it's a bit odd for a thread to be dissected this much for a film that largely used pre-existing music.

    I wish there was a film with an original score from the last couple of years that I found worthy of spending time thinking about. wink
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2011
    franz_conrad wrote
    I don't mean here -- obviously here it's a bit odd for a thread to be dissected this much for a film that largely used pre-existing music.

    I wish there was a film with an original score from the last couple of years that I found worthy of spending time thinking about. wink


    just not hollywood tosh!
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  13. Yes, sorry -- there have been good scores -- just not in films that I felt worth devoting a lot of thought to. wink
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeNov 4th 2011
    Hmm, did you see this ?

    Untitled Terrence Malick Project
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1595656
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeNov 4th 2011
    I read that he's got one in post-production and is already shooting his next two, back-to-back. How uncharacteristic! Sure we'll get three outstanding albums from three top film composers from it all (not to mention three beautiful films).
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeNov 4th 2011
    ...! Tree of life btw was one of the most amazing movie experiences I've ever had, it would be very interesting to see his next projects.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  14. TREE OF LIFE is a gem. I'd be interesting on hearing Desplat's reflections on it after seeing the film though. I wonder how he felt about it after seeing. He said beforehand it was a privilege even if nothing was used, and Malick appeared to think that was worth putting to the test.

    As for the three new films: bring it on. Just keep delivering. smile
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 4th 2011
    Southall wrote
    I read that he's got one in post-production and is already shooting his next two, back-to-back. How uncharacteristic! Sure we'll get three outstanding albums from three top film composers from it all (not to mention three beautiful films).


    ...and a bucket load of pre-existing music.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeNov 4th 2011
    Yeah but it worked wonders for tree of life, his most accomplished film to date, also in the audio musical field as well.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 4th 2011
    Christodoulides wrote
    Hmm, did you see this ?

    Untitled Terrence Malick Project
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1595656


    Cool. Seems like he's becoming prolific in his "old" age.
    I am extremely serious.
  15. I was hoping that we had seen the last of this topic!
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 4th 2011
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    I was hoping that we had seen the last of this topic!


    confused
    I am extremely serious.