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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2011 edited
    If there's one thing it ISN'T, it's boring. A bit over-discussed, maybe, but never boring. But I think it's an inevitable part of being a soundtrack fan, since there are two completely different ways of appreciating music for films on CD. There's no getting around it. You'll always have these two camps and they are so fundamentally different that such discussion will ALWAYS exist.

    Incidentally, the "why don't you arrange your own album?" argument has come up so often that I just created this shorthand response to it:

    http://celluloidtunes.net/non-website/faq.jpg
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2011
    Badly-produced albums are the single biggest affront to those of us who love film music. I will not be silenced! smile
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2011
    Thomas Glorieux wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Read the title of the thread. Now Playing.

    -Erik-


    I'm playing something, it's not C&C


    UNEXCEPTABLE!!!! tongue
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorplindboe
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2011
    Southall wrote
    Likewise, I could slaughter my own chickens for dinner, but I choose to have a butcher do it for me. I could have a dog and bark myself, but don't see the point. I could make my own properly-produced album based on the music sold to me, but that's what the fucking album producer is for. Why doesn't he do his job? If you expect us to produce your albums for you, then you pay us.


    The problem with this analogy is that a dead chicken = a dead chicken no matter who slaughtered it, while the result of you arranging your own album will always be superior to you compared to what a stranger can do. Of course it's more time-consuming, but you're the only one who truly knows what you like. "First knight" is an example of how wrong it can go when someone else decides for us what we're allowed to listen to.

    In any case, there are drawbacks and advantages to both methods. If you don't have the time, I can see why you'd want someone else to do it, despite the risks of missing out on good music.

    Peter smile
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2011
    Thor wrote
    If there's one thing it ISN'T, it's boring. A bit over-discussed, maybe, but never boring.


    You wanna know why C&C conversations are boring... the same arguments come up time and time again, personal attacks are then thrown around (it's enevitable) nothing gets resolved and then the topics goes back in hibernation until someone brings it up again and the ugliness begins again.

    It's pointless. A never ending loop of Zzzzzzzzz....

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2011
    plindboe wrote
    "First knight" is an example of how wrong it can go when someone else decides for us what we're allowed to listen to.


    Very, VERY good point!

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2011 edited


    Just to comment on your last point... yes, yes I can produce a better album Danny Elfman and/or John Williams. No doubt in my mind I can... and I actually have... not professionally mind you but there are dozens of John Williams and Danny Elfman produced album that I can turn into a much, much better listening experinece while at the same time keep the hard core film music nut happy.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2011
    Your God prefers to leave it at this, or He will sent Doddlers upon the surface of the planet you are living on (I as a God have foreseen the actual possibility of multiple planets).

    Thanks! (Although, a God should not thank at all).


    I have been playing a lot of random tracks lately. Nothing has really connected a s a complete listen. My car is full of cd's as well. Not really knowing what to play. Perhaps it's the weather. smile
    Kazoo
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2011
    Erik Woods wrote
    Thor wrote
    If there's one thing it ISN'T, it's boring. A bit over-discussed, maybe, but never boring.


    You wanna know why C&C conversations are boring... the same arguments come up time and time again, personal attacks are then thrown around (it's enevitable) nothing gets resolved and then the topics goes back in hibernation until someone brings it up again and the ugliness begins again.

    It's pointless. A never ending loop of Zzzzzzzzz....

    -Erik-


    The personal attacks are indeed incredibly annoying, but they should - ideally - be easily weeded out. If that had happened, I think a fruitful debate could be had that wasn't only about the same arguments being phrased over and over again, but rather delving deeper into the matter. If no reconciliation can ever be reached, at least it would make it easier to understand each other's viewpoint.
    I am extremely serious.
  1. Erik Woods wrote
    Oh for Christ Sakes... not this again. Are we SERIOUSLY going to have the C&C argument AGAIN?!

    BOR-FUCKING-... umm... ing?! Wait, that doesn't work? Zzzzzzzzzzzz.... nah. Oh, I know...

    suicide

    -Erik-


    Amen. If I never saw this debate revisited, I wouldn't miss it.

    NP: Little Buddha (Ryuichi Sakamoto)

    A bit of a miracle score, in a way. Hard to believe it happened. Truly a fine score.

    Also, last night I heard Washington Square (Kaczmarek). I'm now prepared to concede that Kaczmarek mostly leaves me cold. Back when I was all supportive of Finding Neverland and Unfaithful (two decent scores), I got very defensive about this guy's work when others were offended at his Oscar win. But he isn't Rombi, and he isn't Desplat, and he isn't Preisner or Kilar. WS, like his War and Peace or Third Miracle or Lost Souls, has that flaw of having an interesting main title or end title track, but the writing in between never comes alive for me. There is good work there for sure, Bliss and Evening also come to mind, but he's not as strong as I made out at the time by any means.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2011 edited
    Erik Woods wrote
    Just to comment on your last point... yes, yes I can produce a better album Danny Elfman and/or John Williams. No doubt in my mind I can... and I actually have... not professionally mind you but there are dozens of John Williams and Danny Elfman produced album that I can turn into a much, much better listening experinece while at the same time keep the hard core film music nut happy.

    -Erik-


    Yeah, I fixed my own sink too once. I'm convinced no plumber could have done it better.

    I did my own Mona Lisa too, much better than the real deal.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2011
    Jane Eyre - Dario

    I think I've finally got it. The patience has paid off.
  2. Thor wrote
    Yeah, I fixed my own sink too once. I'm convinced no plumber could have done it better.


    Well - cheaper and with less bother might be the more useful ruler there.

    But guys, please don't make me read another straw man reference to an album producer as being as essential to life and irreplaceable as your neurosurgeon or baker or financial planner or butcher or valet parker or whatnot. Next time you feel the impulse, recite them to yourselves and find a new argumentative device to flog to death. This is the new Hitler for me -- the first one to mention it loses the point. (Exercises in wit have some license to test this however.)

    <insert Thor's horse-flogging argumentative device >
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2011
    franz_conrad wrote
    Thor wrote
    Yeah, I fixed my own sink too once. I'm convinced no plumber could have done it better.


    Well - cheaper and with less bother might be the more useful ruler there.

    But guys, please don't make me read another straw man reference to an album producer as being as essential to life and irreplaceable as your neurosurgeon or baker or financial planner or butcher or valet parker or whatnot. Next time you feel the impulse, recite them to yourselves and find a new argumentative device to flog to death. This is the new Hitler for me -- the first one to mention it loses the point. (Exercises in wit have some license to test this however.)


    AMEN BROTHER! AMEN!
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2011
    Southall wrote
    Jane Eyre - Dario

    I think I've finally got it. The patience has paid off.


    No you didn't. Don't let it!

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2011
    Jane Eyre - Johnny Williams

    No patience required for this one. His first truly great score?
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2011 edited
    franz_conrad wrote
    Thor wrote
    Yeah, I fixed my own sink too once. I'm convinced no plumber could have done it better.


    Well - cheaper and with less bother might be the more useful ruler there.

    But guys, please don't make me read another straw man reference to an album producer as being as essential to life and irreplaceable as your neurosurgeon or baker or financial planner or butcher or valet parker or whatnot. Next time you feel the impulse, recite them to yourselves and find a new argumentative device to flog to death. This is the new Hitler for me -- the first one to mention it loses the point. (Exercises in wit have some license to test this however.)

    <insert Thor's horse-flogging argumentative device >


    Funny thing, though.....we never "question" an artist's right to present his artistic raw materials in any fashion he feels best represents his work when it comes to other types of art and reconceptualizations (film, paintings, literature, heck even 'absolute musics'). Yet when it comes to soundtrack presentations, somehow everyone gets to pick and choose and be their own artist out of the man's raw materials.

    Album production is an artform. And I let the artist (whether the composer or the album producer) finish his presentation to me before I start evaluating it. I don't rush in, mid-production, to ask if I could please make some changes to it.

    Sorry, I just don't buy it. I'll let the artist finish his presentation first. Then I start talking about whether I like it or not.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeApr 19th 2011
    Until September - John Barry

    Repetitive, yes, but outrageously beautiful.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2011
    TABARLY (Yann Tiersen)

    Lovely and typical, slightly minimalistic with lots of piano and stuff. I'm convinced that Tiersen is one of the most influential composers in the indie film score scene.
    I am extremely serious.
  3. Southall wrote
    Jane Eyre - Dario

    I think I've finally got it. The patience has paid off.


    Another angel just got his wings. smile

    Certain other posts however do not appear to be an exercise in wit. If you cannot be entertaining, then do not flog the horse.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2011 edited
    Wit is boring and "easy". Constructive debate is both fun and challenging! smile
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2011
  4. Thor wrote
    Wit is boring and "easy". Constructive debate is both fun and challenging! smile


    If wit is so easy, I wouldn't mind you boring me with it a little more often. Your copy-pastes of posts might be fun for you, but they don't seem particularly challenging to churn out. wink
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorFalkirkBairn
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2011 edited
    NP: Hawk - Stuart Hancock

    I was ripping this CD to my PC and my heart sank when I read a comment from the composer in the liner notes: "...the music actually developed from an initially more theme-based composition into a more texture-based one...the music only finally opens up fully, in terms of direct thematic material...in "The Rising Soul" [the end credits]."

    And sure enough, after having listened to the CD, tracks 1 and 13 are the ones I will be visiting again. Maybe I need to see the movie (what are the chances of that for a 40-minute film that's taken 8 years to be made?) to fully appreciate the textures.

    Are PR companies promotions for soundtracks in general getting better at shifting numbers ("Any fan of Howard Shore’s Lord of the Rings trilogy scores will love Hawk as it is filled with dark and mesmerizing themes") or are I becoming more of a softy? Hawk is not what I was expecting and it's going to take a lot longer for me to "get" this.

    I'd be interested to hear what other people think of this one.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  5. NP: Presumed Innocent (John Williams)

    Erotic thrillers are interesting territory for a composer to jump into. While Jerry Goldsmith was summoning keyboard chills in Basic Instinct, and John Barry thrusting with ye olde saxophone in Body Heat, Williams' approach comes across a bit bombastic. Any erotic score where the French horn gets a healthy airing is probably not going for arousal first and foremost. Still there's much to appreciate here, centering on a theme that has to be good because he re-states it 50 times over the album. (In fairness to Willliams, the 'love scene' cue is violin-heavy and comes early -- much of the rest of the score hovers in regret as the affair leads to death and recriminiations. Hence the french horn, I guess.)

    Surely a study of eroticism in film music is a must for the Kaplans in their increasingly rare podcasts. There's much to talk about. Horner's Jade. Desplat's Lust, Caution. You could even go back to the Golden Age (and earlier) and look at the films where the orgasm seems to be in the orchestra pit rather than onscreen. (Isham's Black Dahlia nicely references this device a couple of times.) There's a whole genre of Morricone scores devoted to this sort of thing.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2011
    Aurora Borealis - Mark Painter

    Remarkable work, really - would be interested in hearing the much-vaunted second volume but can't find it anywhere.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2011
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    NP: Hawk - Stuart Hancock

    I was ripping this CD to my PC and my heart sank when I read a comment from the composer in the liner notes: "...the music actually developed from an initially more theme-based composition into a more texture-based one...the music only finally opens up fully, in terms of direct thematic material...in "The Rising Soul" [the end credits]."

    And sure enough, after having listened to the CD, tracks 1 and 13 are the ones I will be visiting again. Maybe I need to see the movie (what are the chances of that for a 40-minute film that's taken 8 years to be made?) to fully appreciate the textures.

    Are PR companies promotions for soundtracks in general getting better at shifting numbers ("Any fan of Howard Shore’s Lord of the Rings trilogy scores will love Hawk as it is filled with dark and mesmerizing themes") or are I becoming more of a softy? Hawk is not what I was expecting and it's going to take a lot longer for me to "get" this.

    I'd be interested to hear what other people think of this one.


    Everything you said hit the nail right on the head, Alan. I was very disppointed to read about the thematic to textural score comment as well. And you are right... the score doesn't come to life until the last few tracks. And the comparision to the Lord of the Rings, no offense Mikael, is way off base. Sure, there are thick texture and choral music which could remind you on LOTR but is lacks heavily in the thematic department. This one will be featured on an up coming program so stay tuned... but I was overly impressed.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  6. NP: The Queen (Desplat)


    Perhaps this was the least essential of the Desplat scores over the years, among those that got the most acclaim. It's a nice work, very formal, regimented in feeling. It has the waltzes, etc. There's a lovely piece that rounds out the score in 'Queen of Hearts', and 'People's Princess' nods nicely back to the energy of the opening of Birth. The brass solos are less common in Desplat. For some reason all these things aren't quite engaging me today. There's plenty of scores by the composer I like more.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2011
    Southall wrote
    Until September - John Barry

    Repetitive, yes, but outrageously beautiful.


    And yet, with the use of various lead instruments in various tracks it never, to me, feels that repetitive. And yes, it is outrageously beautiful.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2011
    Thor wrote
    franz_conrad wrote
    Thor wrote
    Yeah, I fixed my own sink too once. I'm convinced no plumber could have done it better.


    Well - cheaper and with less bother might be the more useful ruler there.

    But guys, please don't make me read another straw man reference to an album producer as being as essential to life and irreplaceable as your neurosurgeon or baker or financial planner or butcher or valet parker or whatnot. Next time you feel the impulse, recite them to yourselves and find a new argumentative device to flog to death. This is the new Hitler for me -- the first one to mention it loses the point. (Exercises in wit have some license to test this however.)

    <insert Thor's horse-flogging argumentative device >


    Funny thing, though.....we never "question" an artist's right to present his artistic raw materials in any fashion he feels best represents his work when it comes to other types of art and reconceptualizations (film, paintings, literature, heck even 'absolute musics'). Yet when it comes to soundtrack presentations, somehow everyone gets to pick and choose and be their own artist out of the man's raw materials.

    Album production is an artform. And I let the artist (whether the composer or the album producer) finish his presentation to me before I start evaluating it. I don't rush in, mid-production, to ask if I could please make some changes to it.

    Sorry, I just don't buy it. I'll let the artist finish his presentation first. Then I start talking about whether I like it or not.


    The artist has finished his presentation when it's in the film. Honestly, what's the problem with turning a C&C presentation into a set list of your favourite tracks? C&C conversations are like the famous film song...'like a circle in a spiral, a wheel within a wheel, never ending or begining'....there's just no right or wrong in it.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt