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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeFeb 13th 2012 edited
    PawelStroinski wrote
    I tried to put the point of an anti-orchestral bias across, too.

    To be completely honest, while I appreciate good electronic works and I am aware that it is difficult to program decent sounds, I think writing appropriate orchestral colors and in general orchestral proficiency is harder to achieve than proficiency in building electronic soundscape.


    Well, that's your opinion, which I obviously do not share at all....and, incidentally, which I think is all too prevalent among the film music critics in this committee. There's great orchestral writing, there's great electronic writing, there's great writing for solo instruments etc.

    The qualitative difference is not in the instruments used, but in the sound and execution. The 'proof is in the pudding', as they say. So what I'm trying to advocate here is an open attitude towards all kinds of musical expressions and approaches (also those that move beyond my or anyone's personal preferences). A bit more open than the one assembled here, anyway. And preferably also a selection of critics that isn't geared only towards Hollywood.
    I am extremely serious.
  1. Thor wrote
    ...but one should have guidelines that allowed for a wider set of criteria, a more open attitude and an effort to avoid biases like this. It's really about widescale attitude change, and I realize that's a difficult thing to have overnight. But that's also why it is a lifelong project of mine. I think it limits the potential of what film music is and should be.

    As far as I can see there is an open attitude at the IFMCA: there's the freedom to listen to what we want and can nominate whatever we wish to nominate on what we believe is the best of what we can hear. It is up to the individual to seek out as wide a selection of scores to listen to.

    I can't see how it could be done any other way. There are literally hundreds of scores that are eligible for selection. Those potential titles are undoubtedly narrowed down by the scores that have been heard (both on CD and in the film).

    Without being positively discriminatory I find it difficult to see how it could be done any other way.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2012 edited
    Well, as I mentioned earlier -- when assembling 'best of' lists like this, there will always be subjectivity involved, of course. But I really think one should strive to become somewhat more 'objective', perhaps including scores that had a great impact in the scheme of things, but that didn't necessarily connect 100% with oneself.

    For example, John Barry would never make my own personal Top 20 composer list, but I would probably have included him if I were to make a list of Top 20 'most influential' or 'most significant' composer or something. ESPECIALLY if I was taking part in a largescale, official survey with 49 other knowledgable film music experts.

    This is, after all, supposed to be a representative list coming from 50 film music critics, not a single individual's personal favourite list.

    That being said, it is what it is. An assembly of 50 people's favourite lists.

    Even if you couldn't have done anything differently, it's still disappointing -- to me, at least (and apparently I'm the only one, maybe with franz a moderate agreer) -- that this is the prevalent attitude among the critics. I think it says something about a bias that isn't totally healthy when it comes to appreciating film music in all its forms and shapes and styles and approaches.
    I am extremely serious.
  2. I can only speak for myself, but I tried to detach my own likes and dislikes when I looked at the the eligible films in the various categories. There were several titles that I did vote for where the music was not to my own taste, but I felt that I knew enough about the films, music and the music's importance to give credit where I believe it is due. But, in these cases, they will not feature in my own top 5 - even top 20.

    I cannot say that I completely detached myself from my preferences but I did attempt to make that a priority when voting.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2012
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    I can only speak for myself, but I tried to detach my own likes and dislikes when I looked at the the eligible films in the various categories. There were several titles that I did vote for where the music was not to my own taste, but I felt that I knew enough about the films, music and the music's importance to give credit where I believe it is due. But, in these cases, they will not feature in my own top 5 - even top 20.

    I cannot say that I completely detached myself from my preferences but I did attempt to make that a priority when voting.


    That's good to hear, at least. I wonder if there were others who did that as well.
    I am extremely serious.
  3. Thor wrote
    That's good to hear, at least. I wonder if there were others who did that as well.


    All members are specifically instructed to do exactly that. How they then interpret those instructions when coming up with their own choices is entirely up to the individual member.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2012
    Speaking personally - as an amateur "critic" - I can't fathom this difference between something I like, and something I think is good. If something is one, then it must by definition be the other. I could not legitimately function as a "critic" were I not to think that.
  4. Southall wrote
    Speaking personally - as an amateur "critic" - I can't fathom this difference between something I like, and something I think is good. If something is one, then it must by definition be the other. I could not legitimately function as a "critic" were I not to think that.

    You must have had occasion to think that a piece you don't particularly like works well in a film?
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorFalkirkBairn
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2012 edited
    Or are you joking? Joking about this subject at the moment is not something I am particularly receptive to at the moment.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2012
    Well, it depends on what you mean. There is music which I would never want to hear outside a film which functions marvellously well as film music, so in that sense, yes. But I would still classify that as film music I like - even though I wouldn't want to listen to it on an album.

    I probably hear about 300 new film score albums a year but only go to the cinema about four times (though of course catch up with many new films on Blu Ray or television later on) - so any votes I make for the IFMCA (or anything else) will largely be based on albums. I'm sure it's the same for the majority of members and I don't really see any point in pretending otherwise.
  5. Southall wrote
    Well, it depends on what you mean. There is music which I would never want to hear outside a film which functions marvellously well as film music, so in that sense, yes. But I would still classify that as film music I like - even though I wouldn't want to listen to it on an album.

    Okay. For me, there are scores that I like but would not want to hear outside the film. But there is also film music that I don't particularly like (i.e., a particular style perhaps) but I can see how the style fits with the whole feel or look of a film - that makes it a good film score, but one I don't like.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2012
    So....is anyone here at maintitles NOT a part of the YMCA (or whatever it's called)?
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorFalkirkBairn
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2012 edited
    Thor wrote
    So....is anyone here at maintitles NOT a part of the YMCA (or whatever it's called)?

    I would assume lots of people.

    Take a look at the list and make an objective judgement:

    http://filmmusiccritics.org/members/
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2012
    ...oh dear uhm face-palm-mt
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  6. Timmer wrote
    ...oh dear uhm face-palm-mt

    If you mean that you've only just caught up, you only know half of it!
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2012
    joke
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  7. Thor wrote
    That's a good point, franz.


    I thought so. But probably only to those who agree with it. (Of which you seem the rare man. wink )
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2012 edited
    Thor wrote
    So....is anyone here at maintitles NOT a part of the YMCA (or whatever it's called)?


    Don't be a dick!

    Back to the point at hand... I picked my favorites because they are what they are - scores that I think are the best of the year! I'm not going to pick a shitty score just to please others!

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2012
    Ouch. That joke crashed and burned quickly. shame
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorManwe
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2012
    Erik Woods wrote
    I'm not going to pick a shitty score just to please others!


    Word.
    - What matters is the music -
  8. Erik Woods wrote
    I'm not going to pick a shitty score just to please others!

    -Erik-


    Good on you. I must say the appearance that I was doing the same was one of the reasons I left.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2012
    franz_conrad wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    I'm not going to pick a shitty score just to please others!

    -Erik-


    Good on you. I must say the appearance that I was doing the same was one of the reasons I left.


    Eh?

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorManwe
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2012
    Southall wrote
    Speaking personally - as an amateur "critic" - I can't fathom this difference between something I like, and something I think is good. If something is one, then it must by definition be the other. I could not legitimately function as a "critic" were I not to think that.


    Agree. I think the quest for objectivity sometimes can go a bit too far. We are all subjective. Can we look at the world through anything else than our own eyes, colored by years of diverging experiences? As Immanuel Kant wrote - never can we see the world as it truly is.
    - What matters is the music -
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2012
    Manwe wrote
    Southall wrote
    Speaking personally - as an amateur "critic" - I can't fathom this difference between something I like, and something I think is good. If something is one, then it must by definition be the other. I could not legitimately function as a "critic" were I not to think that.


    Agree. I think the quest for objectivity sometimes can go a bit too far. We are all subjective. Can we look at the world through anything else than our own eyes, colored by years of diverging experiences? As Immanuel Kant wrote - never can we see the world as it truly is.


    That's way too relativist, IMO.

    We need certain more or less objective sets of guidelines or rules to make sense of this world.

    When it comes to art criticism, things are trickier, of course. You won't be able to lose subjectivity altogether, nor is that desirable. But it's a matter of degree, as you can put down certain broad criteria by which to judge a work's quality. Many have tried to verbalize such criteria over the years. I like these, about 10 posts down:

    http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/p … ;archive=1
    I am extremely serious.
  9. There's also a huge difference between art criticism... and craft recognition. One is usually interested in the boundaries of the form, the other in defining an optimum way to do things.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2012
    franz_conrad wrote
    There's also a huge difference between art criticism... and craft recognition. One is usually interested in the boundaries of the form, the other in defining an optimum way to do things.


    Whoa...
  10. kiss
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2012
    I'm glad I was able to see "The Artist" because it enhanced my listening experience. To hear the monster motif from "Bride of Frankenstein" put a real smile on my face when I saw that the scene had our hero George Valentin being tortured with electrodes attached to him. It was the perfect use of the material. I would not have been as impressed had I not seen the film yet as a separate listening experience this score was very good.

    Another recent example for me was the Orson Welles version of "Jane Eyre" from 1943 with Herrmann doing the score. The score reconstructed by Naxos offers a great listening experience but after watching the film I would have never given it a nod for an award. It was just okay in the film.

    Tom
    listen to more classical music!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2012
    I've never seen the Herrmann scored version of JANE EYRE. The score is excellent and I'll be picking up that Naxos version soon.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2012
    Skimming through the IFMCA discussions, I was wondering how can it be legitimate that two members of the IFMCA, Daniel Schweiger and Dan Goldwasser, who are both paid by soundtrack labels for their work on soundtrack albums, are hence able to vote for their own product? Isn't there a conflict of interest here? Is the IFMCA in the pocket of the record industry? Seems a might odd to me.