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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2012
    sdtom wrote

    Where did he ask for an opinion on his website???


    Are we only allowed to express an opinion if specifically asked for it?
    Are we only allowed to ask a question if it pleases the object?

    The obvious question in my mind is why did you depart from the original sci-fi concept and choose to release two Ernest Gold scores that had nothing to do with horror/science fiction?


    YOUR mind, indeed. Yet other people, with different interests and/or other priorities may have other directions for inquiries and questions.

    I'm not going to delve into the subject matter again, and why you think this, Steven thinks thus and I think so.
    That's pointless and chewed to death in many posts above.

    Your analogy is flawed as no one walked into MMM's store and offered advice.
    MMM walked in HERE, introduced himself with a link to his web site, and then acted rather piquedly when someone who had NO idea who he was or what his business was, actually went and *visited* that web site and had the audacity to have an opinion about it (and expressed it in the nicest possible way).

    So with all due respect, Tom, but no, it makes no sense.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2012
    I find the logic a little flawed. If a business has the knowledge, things you want to buy, and good prices, that's fantastic. Wonderful in fact! But any web-based business will always benefit from a more appealing website (as will any business come to think of it).

    Mine was not a harsh criticism or an attempt to berate MMM, but rather offer a friendly suggestion. The website is, as anyone can see, a rather old and clunky looking affair. It may do the job fine, and many customers may even be be perfectly happy with it, especially knowing the service that comes with it. That's fine. I'm not arguing that. My point was about potential and new customers. A revamped site would simply attract more customers, and instill more confidence in potential onlookers. (And revamped does not necessarily mean pandering to "hip" designs. As I suggested before, a simple 'stylised' design could work quite well.) It's simple common sense! That said, I'm not a website designer, so I wouldn't be able to create anything for MMM as he seemed to have somewhat defensively suggested.
    But I am a potential customer.

    How is any of this unfair?
    It isn't. That's the thing. smile
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2012 edited
    My brain also needs an overhaul. Perhaps I should just check into our county mental health for some help. To me it makes perfect sense. If you wanted a tripod part and I was the only one who had it what difference does the displaying of material have anything to do with buying or not buying? If you want Rocketship X-M you'll buy it. David coming to the website is the equivalent to coming into my store. He is pretty much a one person operation with no money to promote and advertise but he offers a somewhat unique product. I carried material no one else bothered to.

    The worst thing that ever happened to me was having a stroke. If I hadn't I wouldn't be doing this right now but working at something I enjoyed, running a camera store and making a lot of money! My film music knowledge was a fun (still is) hobby which I shared with no one. To me there was no point as it was something that gave me pleasure and I'm selfish. It seems lately every-time I open my mouth there is conflict. You're right about one thing. Instead of talking about Grofe and the wonderful contribution he made to music we talk about everything but.
    Tom sad
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2012
    sdtom wrote
    My brain also needs an overhaul. Perhaps I should just check into our county mental health for some help. To me it makes perfect sense. If you wanted a tripod part and I was the only one who had it what difference does the displaying of material have anything to do with buying or not buying? If you want Rocketship X-M you'll buy it. David coming to the website is the equivalent to coming into my store. He is pretty much a one person operation with no money to promote and advertise but he offers a somewhat unique product. I carried material no one else bothered to.


    Yes, that's a fair point. smile (But as David continued to take it the wrong way and find offense where none was intended, it did seem to turn into a bigger deal than it really was. wink)

    ...heck, I might even buy a CD from his website.

    No, I probably won't. But if I wanted to, I totally would!
    True story.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2012
    sdtom wrote
    MMM wrote
    No mention of our label in over four years! That's not good. Glad I just discovered this site, as you have a much more civil way of conversing than on a certain site in the States that is bent on the destruction of each and every poster! I hope I can contribute to some of the conversations here if anyone has questions pertaining to my area of expertise as a soundtrack producer, representative of composers and their estates, legal matters pertaining to film music and music in general, and especially classic science fiction and horror music. I also know which people in the business are crooks, but I'll keep that to myself for the time being...

    We just released (as of today) five new soundtrack CDs, so if anyone would like to check them out, you can click on the link and if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. The releases are:

    SHIP OF FOOLS (Ernest Gold) [first release of original music tracks]
    KRONOS & THE COSMIC MAN (Paul Sawtell and Bert Shefter) [2-CD set]
    THE MCCULLOCHS (Ernest Gold)
    ROCKETSHIP X-M (Ferde Grofe)

    Each release comes with liner books containing more information about the music, the composers, and more jokes than what you'll find in five other releases combined! (Okay, so maybe that's a slight exaggeration, but not regarding the jokes...)

    http://www.mmmrecordings.com


    Where did he ask for an opinion on his website??? Am I missing something? The obvious question in my mind is why did you depart from the original sci-fi concept and choose to release two Ernest Gold scores that had nothing to do with horror/science fiction?

    When I was alive and well in business at Nelson Photo I can tell you I didn't have the 'clean' look to impress you and woo away your money. What I had was knowledge, things you wanted to buy, and good prices. If someone (they did) came in and wanted to give me advice on what the store should look like I would politely ask them if I could help them with something? If you want to talk about business please make an appointment with Mary after store hours and I'll be happy to listen to what you have to say. I think the analogy is appropriate. Does that make sense?
    Tom


    When you're a public business or figure, Tom, you WILL receive input, be it creative or not, and criticism. It's natural and expected, we don't need anyone's permission. Now you can either bitch and whine or learn a thing or two from the criticism and actually improve yourself.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2012
    Oh how right you are Demetrius. David should have ignored the advice politely like I did. If I had listened to the marketing ideas of my customers I'd have gone bankrupt like most of my competition. David's mistake was reacting. I would do as I said above or just smile and thank the person for their input. David might have an unappealing site but his product sells, he knows what he is talking about, and he is honest to a fault. Did you know he was a close friend to Tony Thomas, writer, record producer and a wealth of information. Did you know he was good friends with Ray Harryhausen? Ray helped him when he released Mighty Joe Young. When I was sent my review copy of MJY it came with Ray's autograph, pretty nice huh? He is a source of information. I can't tell you how much I learned about Hans Salter, the other Hans in the music business. I'm just disappointed that this site blew it.

    One other point 'D.' Aren't you happy that Steve Jobs ignored Bill Gates about how to run his business? If you read his biography you'll find out how smart he really was. I for one was impressed.
    Tom
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2012 edited
    This may well be a cultural divide.
    In general - and this is not something I made up, but a point stressed during cultural awareness sessions during my days at Shell - in general Americans take far less kindly to (perceived) criticism, *especially* when they consider themselves "experts" (even when the perveived criticism doesn't even vaguely pertain to the -real or assumed- expertise).

    If in Europe I'd present myself as a GREAT project manager, and then handed a new customer (who doesn't know my track record or reputation) a torn, dirty, crumpled business card, it's extremely likely I'd get some inquisitive remarks.

    To my mind, rightfully so: not only should -as a matter of principle- questions in almost all situations be encouraged, but ALSO because I'd MUCH rather have them ask questions NOW (at the moment that I have a chance to address them) than have them nod politely, move away and never, ever call me again.

    Presentation, after all, is a MAJOR part of negotiations and business.
    In America it may be that reputation (or stature) is more valued.

    There are pros and contras on either side of the ocean.

    Extrapolating, the unfortunate thing for MMM is that he did not actually *have* much of a reputation here, his business, products or market being largely unknown.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2012
    sdtom wrote
    Got an email from my friend David at MMM saying he was very unhappy with the site and he'll no longer post here. Why do you have to give advice when it is not asked for? I guess I don't get it but the bottom line is that this site loses.
    Tom


    rolleyes
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2012
    That said, I grow a little weary of the meta-subject.
    For all the sociological theorising, and all the great names MMM may have in his personal circles, the VERY simple fact of the matter is that it was MMM, at the end of the day, who wasn't able or willing to conduct a civilised discussion.

    I honestly hope and wish for him to do well, and I love that he's found a great niche and great customers, and it's great that he's happy doing what he does.

    But unless there is a new development, or we talk about the music MMM puts out, or the films connected to them, I am pretty much done with this particular subject (which seems to go round and round in circles anyway).
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2012
    sdtom wrote
    Oh how right you are Demetrius. David should have ignored the advice politely like I did. If I had listened to the marketing ideas of my customers I'd have gone bankrupt like most of my competition. David's mistake was reacting. I would do as I said above or just smile and thank the person for their input. David might have an unappealing site but his product sells, he knows what he is talking about, and he is honest to a fault. Did you know he was a close friend to Tony Thomas, writer, record producer and a wealth of information. Did you know he was good friends with Ray Harryhausen? Ray helped him when he released Mighty Joe Young. When I was sent my review copy of MJY it came with Ray's autograph, pretty nice huh? He is a source of information. I can't tell you how much I learned about Hans Salter, the other Hans in the music business. I'm just disappointed that this site blew it.

    One other point 'D.' Aren't you happy that Steve Jobs ignored Bill Gates about how to run his business? If you read his biography you'll find out how smart he really was. I for one was impressed.
    Tom


    This site didn't 'blow it'. David simply reacted badly. He blew it.

    And for the second time, it wasn't advice. It was a suggestion. Again, for the umpteenth time, a friendly suggestion (more of a question really!). Whether he has contacts or is experienced does not stop the fact that improving the website is, in all likeliness, a positive thing (depending on costs that it might incur). Listening to bad advice is one thing, listening to common sense is another. This is not at all like advising him on how to run his business as you seem to suggest, nor does a bad hunch Bill Gates might have had once mean all suggestions should be ignored. dizzy

    That said, you are right about one thing: if he wasn't interested in updating the website, then simply ignoring or politely describing his disinterest in the suggestion without getting defensive would have shown himself (and by extension, his business) in a far better light. But alas this was not the case.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2012 edited
    sdtom wrote
    Oh how right you are Demetrius. David should have ignored the advice politely like I did. If I had listened to the marketing ideas of my customers I'd have gone bankrupt like most of my competition. David's mistake was reacting. I would do as I said above or just smile and thank the person for their input. David might have an unappealing site but his product sells, he knows what he is talking about, and he is honest to a fault. Did you know he was a close friend to Tony Thomas, writer, record producer and a wealth of information. Did you know he was good friends with Ray Harryhausen? Ray helped him when he released Mighty Joe Young. When I was sent my review copy of MJY it came with Ray's autograph, pretty nice huh? He is a source of information. I can't tell you how much I learned about Hans Salter, the other Hans in the music business. I'm just disappointed that this site blew it.

    One other point 'D.' Aren't you happy that Steve Jobs ignored Bill Gates about how to run his business? If you read his biography you'll find out how smart he really was. I for one was impressed.
    Tom


    If only a dated, old-fashioned and amateurish (at parts) sites were at the level of Bill Gates' work so they wouldn't account for any constructive criticism;)
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  1. Can we just lock this topic now?
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2012
    No reason, Alan.
    We'll just wait until the sound and fury dies down -which you know it will- and then we can talk turkey again. smile
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2012
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    Can we just lock this topic now?


    Seems a might drastic.
  2. I hope that you are not being critical of my suggestion, Steven? Because, you do have a bit of a reputation... wink
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2012
    •  
      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2012
    Are people so upset it has to be locked? I don't think so. I think some very valuable information was exchanged over this. I for one learned a lot and I thank Steven, 'D', and Martijn. If nothing else I became a little smarter. David reacted over something he probably shouldn't have. It is a shame that there will be little or no talk about Rocketship X-M. I'll try once I complete my review.
    Tom
    listen to more classical music!
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2012
    sdtom wrote
    It is a shame that there will be little or no talk about Rocketship X-M. I'll try once I complete my review.
    Tom


    And I for one am looking very much forward to that, Tom! smile
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2012
    thanks Martijn
    listen to more classical music!
  3. Not upset Tom. The current discussion just seems to be grinding to a halt - until the talk gets back to the label's output.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2012
    We don't lock topics here, except under extreme circumstances. That's what I love about this place.

    I, for one, would love David Schecther to return. I do think he overreacted to a very simple, friendly suggestion, but I think he could add some valuable insights to our discussions. We need some more industry professionals here. I also think he, in return, would come to appreciate the mood here -- especially in discussions beyond his personal products.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2012
    Thor wrote


    I, for one, would love David Schecther to return. I do think he overreacted to a very simple, friendly suggestion, but I think he could add some valuable insights to our discussions. We need some more industry professionals here. I also think he, in return, would come to appreciate the mood here -- especially in discussions beyond his personal products.


    Couldn't agree more Thor smile especially if he was willing to talk about film music. For all the responses to a thread about his company no one chose to talk about the releases other than Steven who said golden age sucks. For the few sheckles Grofe was given he did a good job with this one. Yes it is mono and a small orchestra but his use of the theremin enhances the soundtrack.
    Tom
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2012
    sdtom wrote
    ...other than Steven who said golden age sucks.


    He was being facetious, Tom.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2012
    A wee bit, yes. wink
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeMar 29th 2012
    http://sdtom.wordpress.com/2012/03/29/r … -x-mgrofe/

    A review of the music.
    Tom
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2012
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    Can we just lock this topic now?


    I'm glad we didn't lock the topic because MMM has four new releases

    1... Destination Moon
    2... The Brain from Planet Arous
    3... Missile to the Moon
    4... The Last Man on Earth

    So far I've listened to Destination Moon/Leith Stevens and found it satisfying.
    Tom
    listen to more classical music!
    •  
      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2013
    http://sdtom.wordpress.com/2013/06/09/3062/
    A review of the film The Lost Continent
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2013
    http://sdtom.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/hellgatedunlap/

    A review of Hellgate
    Tom
    listen to more classical music!