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    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2013
    Scribe wrote
    Thor wrote
    A John Williams tone poem for violin, written in 2000 for violinist Gil Shaham. I think it's a beautiful piece myself, and don't understand what issue Scribe has with it.


    I would enjoy Treesong if it was written by some random composer.
    But it's John Williams writing to appease idiots (those in the classical music world who don't like his film compositions) rather than being himself. The man is capable of writing something that would make Copland's Appalachian Spring look like a student project, but no one will support or encourage him in such a project because it's just not cool to write uplifting music anymore.


    What utter nonsense. Where are your facts?
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2013 edited
    Why would you think that a discussion about what John Williams is potentially capable of composing has anything to do with "facts"?

    I'm sorry if I have too high an opinion of John Williams' talent. How dare I.
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2013
    What makes you think John Williams is writing concert works to appease "idiots"?

    How do you know they don't like his film compositions?

    Who are you to say John Williams isn't being himself?

    It's not cool to write uplifting music anymore. Says who?
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  1. Timmer wrote
    What makes you think John Williams is writing concert works to appease "idiots"?

    How do you know they don't like his film compositions?

    Who are you to say John Williams isn't being himself?

    It's not cool to write uplifting music anymore. Says who?


    Perfectly in agreement.
    Film music is program music. It's not l'art pour l'art. In no way does this diminish the artistic relevance of film music. Some of the finest classical music ever writter is program music. But it means, that composers work in different contexts when wiriting film music or concert music. John Williams makes a clear distinction here, as does Morricone, as did Herrmann, as did Goldsmith, Rozsa and many onthers. Goldenthal brought contemporary aestetics into his film scoring, see what it earned him! The same goes for Don Davis.
    When Williams writes for the concert hall, he sets himself into the context of contemporary orchestral music. One does not necessarily have to like that, although to judge music on the basis its accessibility and its emidiate emotional impact only does not seem to be sufficiant to me. That might sound elitist but - sorry - so is art.
    I admire Williams for his multifacetness. I makes him an extraordinary artist.
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2013 edited
    What makes you think John Williams is writing concert works to appease "idiots"?

    How do you know they don't like his film compositions?


    I was under the impression that this was general knowledge. I'm sorry I don't have source articles, unlike everyone else does when they state things about composers on this forum.

    Who are you to say John Williams isn't being himself?


    Just an opinion. If I had the power to brighten people's entire lives by writing things like War Horse, I wouldn't be wasting my time writing emotionally impotent concert works.


    It's not cool to write uplifting music anymore. Says who?


    Say the legions of people who seem to be perfectly content with the fact that 90% of both film music and popular music as a whole is monochromatically dark and depressing.

    Sorry, I am having a bad day and I want John Williams to write a real forest symphony.
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2013 edited
    Captain Future wrote
    Timmer wrote
    What makes you think John Williams is writing concert works to appease "idiots"?

    How do you know they don't like his film compositions?

    Who are you to say John Williams isn't being himself?

    It's not cool to write uplifting music anymore. Says who?


    Perfectly in agreement.
    Film music is program music. It's not l'art pour l'art. In no way does this diminish the artistic relevance of film music. Some of the finest classical music ever writter is program music. But it means, that composers work in different contexts when wiriting film music or concert music. John Williams makes a clear distinction here, as does Morricone, as did Herrmann, as did Goldsmith, Rozsa and many onthers. Goldenthal brought contemporary aestetics into his film scoring, see what it earned him! The same goes for Don Davis.
    When Williams writes for the concert hall, he sets himself into the context of contemporary orchestral music. One does not necessarily have to like that, although to judge music on the basis its accessibility and its emidiate emotional impact only does not seem to be sufficiant to me. That might sound elitist but - sorry - so is art.
    I admire Williams for his multifacetness. I makes him an extraordinary artist.


    I agree with this. I find his concert work endlessly fascinating -- especially now that I'm so familiar with his style that I can recognize some of his trademarks even in an idiom that is quite far removed from his film work. Even a very avantgarde piece like the flute concerto.

    Some of his concert works are more accessible and closer to the film work, though -- like the tuba concerto.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2013
    Thor wrote
    I agree with this. I find his concert work endlessly fascinating -- especially now that I'm so familiar with his style that I can recognize some of his trademarks even in an idiom that is quite far removed from his film work. Even a very avantgarde piece like the flute concerto.


    I do find it enjoyable on that level.
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2013
    Varese is putting together a 'best of' for Doyle.

    http://www.varesesarabande.com/servlet/ … -Of/Detail
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  2. Demetris wrote
    Varese is putting together a 'best of' for Doyle.

    http://www.varesesarabande.com/servlet/ … -Of/Detail


    Sorry, but that is not a best-of:

    http://www.classical-music.com/article/patrick-doyle wink

    Great release, surely. Thanks for the heads-up!

    Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2013 edited
    Demetris wrote
    Varese is putting together a 'best of' for Doyle.

    http://www.varesesarabande.com/servlet/ … -Of/Detail


    It's not a 'best of', it's a new concept album -- a symphonic tone poem about the US. I'm quite excited about it.

    [Edit: I see Volker beat me to it]
    I am extremely serious.
  3. Thor wrote
    Demetris wrote
    Varese is putting together a 'best of' for Doyle.

    http://www.varesesarabande.com/servlet/ … -Of/Detail


    It's not a 'best of', it's a new concept album -- a symphonic tone poem about the US. I'm quite excited about it.

    [Edit: I see Volker beat me to it]


    The concept seems to remind me a bit of John Williams' "American Journey". It will be interesting to compare both works.
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2013
    Thanks for the correction guys!
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMar 25th 2013 edited
    Love the cover on this release...

    IMPRESSIONS OF AMERICA

    Want! cool

    p.s. please do not bore me with replies that this has already been posted, i have just looked at earlier posts and am embarrased enough, thank you very much.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 25th 2013
    Nice! I think we're all getting this album.
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorBasilB
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2013
    New clips from his impressiv and colorful "Impressions of America":
    http://www.cinemamusica.de/1777/ein-mus … of-america

    Enjoy!
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2013
    ^ Great album!

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2013
    In a parallel universe wink I found it unbearably simplistic and monotonous.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2013
    I'm on D's side on this. While listening to it, I thought to myself: "My God, when are all these undulating strings having a rest? Enough already!". It's not bad, but it grates a bit eventually. That's how it is with Doyle and me....I think some of his stuff is absolutely brilliant, while other things grate on me a bit.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeApr 24th 2013
    Same here. It's either absolutely beautiful and top notch, or completely childish and draft, with Doyle and me.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 28th 2013 edited
    As I'm now listening to the wonderful EAST-WEST, it strikes me yet again how 'on/off' Doyle is to me.

    I mean, these are some fantastic scores:

    EAST-WEST
    HENRY V
    SHIPWRECKED
    INTO THE WEST
    NEEDFUL THINGS
    MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING

    And then these leave me quite cold and/or actually grating:

    FRANKENSTEIN
    HAMLET
    EXIT TO EDEN
    THOR
    RISE OF THE PLANET OF THE APES
    IMPRESSIONS OF AMERICA

    I can hardly think of any other composer for whom I have this wide adore/dislike spectrum. Morricone, maybe.
    I am extremely serious.
  4. Thor wrote
    As I'm now listening to the wonderful EAST-WEST, it strikes me yet again how 'on/off' Doyle is to me.

    I mean, these are some fantastic scores:

    EAST-WEST
    HENRY V
    SHIPWRECKED
    INTO THE WEST
    NEEDFUL THINGS
    MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING

    And then these leave me quite cold and/or actually grating:

    FRANKENSTEIN
    HAMLET
    THOR
    RISE OF THE PLANET OF THE APES
    IMPRESSIONS OF AMERICA

    I can hardly think of any other composer for whom I have this wide adore/dislike spectrum. Morricone, maybe.



    HENRY V
    MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING
    FRANKENSTEIN
    HAMLET
    THOR
    RISE OF THE PLANET OF THE APES

    These scores I find good or even great, the others I am not familiar with. I never found anything by Morricone that I actually disliked.
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
  5. Haven't heard a Doyle score yet that I haven't at least liked, if not loved. I do think he can get a little bit grating though with his extremely bright major-key tonality at times ("The Golden Egg" from Goblet of Fire has a few too many bright cymbal crashes for example), but for the most part I admire a composer who doesn't shy away from the major key in this day and age. And I absolutely adore his lush melodic touch. Even the much-derided Thor has its moments in that regard ("Thor Kills the Destroyer").

    Although I wasn't a huge fan of his Impressions of America. Felt a touch too restrained; if you want, you can read my review over at Tracksounds.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeMay 29th 2013
    Thanks Edmund! Interestingly i didn't like impressions at all, either.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 29th 2013
    What puts me off his music in the scores above is what I call his 'chord-stop' effect, i.e. building up a chord, then stopping, then pausing and then beginning all over again. Ad nauseum. It gets very intense after a while. In the case of AMERICA, this philosophy was transcribed to an endless series of flickering strings.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeMay 29th 2013
    I call it 'draft', 'messy', perhaps without enough musical coherence.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  6. Thor wrote
    What puts me off his music in the scores above is what I call his 'chord-stop' effect, i.e. building up a chord, then stopping, then pausing and then beginning all over again. Ad nauseum. It gets very intense after a while. In the case of AMERICA, this philosophy was transcribed to an endless series of flickering strings.

    Can you give a couple more specific examples (cues, preferably)? I'm not sure I quite follow...
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 29th 2013
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Thor wrote
    What puts me off his music in the scores above is what I call his 'chord-stop' effect, i.e. building up a chord, then stopping, then pausing and then beginning all over again. Ad nauseum. It gets very intense after a while. In the case of AMERICA, this philosophy was transcribed to an endless series of flickering strings.

    Can you give a couple more specific examples (cues, preferably)? I'm not sure I quite follow...


    Sure. Listen to the track "There's an Answer" from FRANKENSTEIN, for example -- a string or brass chord is introduced, crescendos, then halts, bit of silence, then repeat. Doyle can write a beautiful melody, but he often resorts to this 'cluster' approach that eventually grates over the course of an album. Herrmann did some of the same, which is why I've never connected to a score like VERTIGO, for example.

    So the Doyle albums that are less reliant on this, I usually love.
    I am extremely serious.
  7. Thor wrote
    Sure. Listen to the track "There's an Answer" from FRANKENSTEIN, for example -- a string or brass chord is introduced, crescendos, then halts, bit of silence, then repeat. Doyle can write a beautiful melody, but he often resorts to this 'cluster' approach that eventually grates over the course of an album. Herrmann did some of the same, which is why I've never connected to a score like VERTIGO, for example.

    Ah, I see. It's kind of similar to the "breathing chords" trick that Howard Shore uses in his Tolkien scores. It doesn't bother me as much as dubstep. wink

    Interesting about Vertigo. Nice to hear I'm not the only one who's 100% in love with that score. It has astounding highlights, for sure, but listening to it from beginning to end is rather tiresome, I find. That goes for most of the Herrmann/Hitchcocks, actually.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMay 29th 2013
    Could you or Thor give me an example of what's not to like in Vertigo? I'm not 100% sure I understand you?
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 29th 2013
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Ah, I see. It's kind of similar to the "breathing chords" trick that Howard Shore uses in his Tolkien scores. It doesn't bother me as much as dubstep. wink


    Yes, exactly, Shore does that all the time too.

    As for VERTIGO, it's the same thing as we talk about here, the "breathing style". Introduce a chord, crescendo it, wind down (or put in silence altogether), then repeat. It's in the main theme, even. Or tracks like "The Forest". This isn't only prevalent in VERTIGO, but many other Herrmann scores as well (CITIZEN KANE, for example). I've gotten more accustomed to it over the years, but it can still grate a bit.
    I am extremely serious.