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  1. Get off your high horse Demetris. In one specific aspect I make a point of highlighting an aspect of the scores I find similar. Not exactly the same.

    Sometimes your expression of you opinions goes way overboard, bordering on the melodramatic. Chill out.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
  2. Erik Woods wrote
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    And any score that features over two dozen themes, no matter what your personal opinions on it, is resolutely not mediocre.


    And on the flip side two dozens themes doesn't make a score the greatest thing on the planet. Just because a film score has themes and/or melody doesn't automatically mean those themes are good or that the score surrounding those themes are any good.

    I agree...but to describe what is easily the thematically richest score of the year as "mediocre" just feels, to borrow your phrasing, plain ole wrong to me. I don't demand that everybody love or even like the score (and if D thinks it's a "snoozefest," then fine, his loss), but I do expect people to at least acknowledge the depth and thought put into it, and give Shore the respect he deserves for continuing to weave a thematic tapestry at a level that is completely beyond anything else heard in film music. That score is not mediocre.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2014
    Demetris wrote
    As for Gravity, it IS sfx, no matter how you present it;


    No. It just isn't.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2014
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    And any score that features over two dozen themes, no matter what your personal opinions on it, is resolutely not mediocre.


    And on the flip side two dozens themes doesn't make a score the greatest thing on the planet. Just because a film score has themes and/or melody doesn't automatically mean those themes are good or that the score surrounding those themes are any good.

    I agree...but to describe what is easily the thematically richest score of the year as "mediocre" just feels, to borrow your phrasing, plain ole wrong to me. I don't demand that everybody love or even like the score (and if D thinks it's a "snoozefest," then fine, his loss), but I do expect people to at least acknowledge the depth and thought put into it, and give Shore the respect he deserves for continuing to weave a thematic tapestry at a level that is completely beyond anything else heard in film music. That score is not mediocre.


    For the most part I agree with you.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2014
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    And any score that features over two dozen themes, no matter what your personal opinions on it, is resolutely not mediocre.


    And on the flip side two dozens themes doesn't make a score the greatest thing on the planet. Just because a film score has themes and/or melody doesn't automatically mean those themes are good or that the score surrounding those themes are any good.

    I agree...but to describe what is easily the thematically richest score of the year as "mediocre" just feels, to borrow your phrasing, plain ole wrong to me. I don't demand that everybody love or even like the score (and if D thinks it's a "snoozefest," then fine, his loss), but I do expect people to at least acknowledge the depth and thought put into it, and give Shore the respect he deserves for continuing to weave a thematic tapestry at a level that is completely beyond anything else heard in film music. That score is not mediocre.


    I think you can only judge something on how it turns out, not on the process that went into creating it. Of course I can respect someone's hard work, but if the end result is mediocre, then it doesn't really matter how hard they worked, I'd have thought.

    (I'm saying this in general, not specifically saying I think Desolation of Smaug is mediocre. Mediocre seems quite kind a word. wink)
  3. But it did turn out with an astonishing amount of thematic development. I'm not saying that hard work automatically makes a score good (that would be a cheap David/Yonathan Vargas argument), but there are just so many plainly evident intricacies in that score. Denying that they exist is churlish and false.

    Southall wrote
    Mediocre seems quite kind a word. wink

    rolleyes
    •  
      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2014
    I think Gravity would be my favourite. Of course the music is picked because of the movie but also because it plays such a prominent role. I don't understand why it is sfx only? There's quite a nice main theme that especially in the last 5 tracks gets the focus. Or does that not count. I don't know. Anyhow, I would like to hear Her too. Saving Mr Banks is not one of Newman's finest. A bit auto pilot but then it's no sfx.

    SFX for the win! punk
    Kazoo
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2014
    I rather like Newman's score. I may be its only fan around here.*

    *Shameless, shameless fishing
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2014
    Erik Woods wrote
    Demetris wrote
    As for Gravity, it IS sfx, no matter how you present it;


    You are correct. The score does stand in as the sound design of the picture but it is also VERY musical. It's a proper film score and to say that it isn't is just plain ole wrong.

    Now is the score good or not... well, that's all a matter of opinion.

    -Erik-


    I don't doubt that, indeed; it's whole hype that is killing it off for me, whilst 2013 has seen some amazingly good scores.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2014 edited
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    And any score that features over two dozen themes, no matter what your personal opinions on it, is resolutely not mediocre.


    And on the flip side two dozens themes doesn't make a score the greatest thing on the planet. Just because a film score has themes and/or melody doesn't automatically mean those themes are good or that the score surrounding those themes are any good.

    I agree...but to describe what is easily the thematically richest score of the year as "mediocre" just feels, to borrow your phrasing, plain ole wrong to me. I don't demand that everybody love or even like the score (and if D thinks it's a "snoozefest," then fine, his loss), but I do expect people to at least acknowledge the depth and thought put into it, and give Shore the respect he deserves for continuing to weave a thematic tapestry at a level that is completely beyond anything else heard in film music. That score is not mediocre.


    You mean Conrad Pope wink

    And a note regarding a couple of touchy individuals around here that i will say once and never again 'cause it's getting really tiring for me:

    It's funny how some of you people tell me to chill out and get off my high horse whilst the only thing i said it's that an a. score is mediocre (which it is, no matter how differently you'd like to think) and a b. score is mainly sfx (which again it's true, be it musical or not). Now, you can do whatever you want with my posts, ignore or get aroused like some of you folks seem to do, but please refrain from telling me how to express myself. I don't tell you how to and why you jizz your pants over the scores you like so please don't tell me how to word my opinions. If you're as easily aroused with a word like mediocre, then please go elsewhere or feel free to ignore me and my posts completely. I left the forum for a while 'cause i was getting tired of touchy fanboys around here but i won't do you the favor. There's a lot of people in here i admire, respect and appreciate hugely, people whom i feel like my extended family. And there are a lot of touchy bitches as well, like the real world. I love this place and i won't do you the favor of leaving. So, grow up.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2014
    Thankfully the hype surrounding Gravity hasn't put me off it at all, quite the contrary. I would have dismissed this as a noisy ambient score were it not for the praise that it's received, and I'm looking forward to hearing it in the movie! (I'm still at the stage where I can't really enjoy it as an album, but hopefully after seeing the film I'll appreciate it as a score.)
  4. Demetris wrote
    a. score is mediocre (which it is, no matter how differently you'd like to think)

    Forgive me; I wasn't aware that your opinion is the Final Word On Everything. Next time I won't dare to formulate my own thoughts on a score unless they line up perfectly with those issued from Mt. Olympus.

    Look, I agree with your other points and I'll try not and be as touchy in the future; but when someone comes in and tells me that discussing the music I love is somehow "sad" then just how exactly do you expect me to react?
  5. Steven wrote
    I rather like Newman's score. I may be its only fan around here.*

    *Shameless, shameless fishing

    Yes. I want it to win just to mindfuck everyone here. rolleyes
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2014
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Demetris wrote
    a. score is mediocre (which it is, no matter how differently you'd like to think)

    Forgive me; I wasn't aware that your opinion is the Final Word On Everything.


    You should have learned that by now!
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2014 edited
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Demetris wrote
    a. score is mediocre (which it is, no matter how differently you'd like to think)

    Forgive me; I wasn't aware that your opinion is the Final Word On Everything. Next time I won't dare to formulate my own thoughts on a score unless they line up perfectly with those issued from Mt. Olympus.

    Look, I agree with your other points and I'll try not and be as touchy in the future; but when someone comes in and tells me that discussing the music I love is somehow "sad" then just how exactly do you expect me to react?


    Well, i don't know, something lighter perhaps? Like "fuck you and your opinions, i fucking love it, and this is why : argument 1) 2) 3)".

    I'd welcome that with a beer

    It's the aroused posts that put me off, the ones where people get everything as directed to THEM, everything as personal and insulting to THEM, well it isn't, let go, lighten up.

    As for the facts you say, everything in music is subjective, but still some things are clear cut.

    I'll give you an example:

    For instance, i know and feel that MAN OF STEEL is by all means musically mediocre and pretty bad as a score in the film, but i fucking LOVE IT! Do you see me bitching when people diss it? No.

    Here's another example, Smaug, in the long and not so good sequel, and by all comparisons to the previous scores and especially LOTR and what SHORE (who wasn't really there for Smaug from what i hear) really is capable of, doesn't hold a candle. Do you love it? GREAT! End of discussion.

    Why do you people have to take everything personally and reply with huge rants verging on fanboyisms instead of cool, lighter pub-like discussions grown-ups normally have? It's a fucking hobby, nobody makes money out of this, this is why i'd personally love it if we could have less bitching and more actual discussion around here.

    I promise i'll try to tone down my wording which i'd rather not do 'cause it's the way i am, but since i see a lot of you get easily turned on on some subjects, i will try harder. But please, try to lighten up a bit, for Cheesus' sake. wink
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  6. Demetris wrote
    Here's another example, Smaug, in the long and not so good sequel, and by all comparisons to the previous scores and especially LOTR and what SHORE (who wasn't really there for Smaug from what i hear) really is capable of, doesn't hold a candle. Do you love it? GREAT! End of discussion.

    I still don't quite understand why you say this. What makes you think he "wasn't really there?" Why, to you, does it not hold a candle? To me, DoS is just as intelligently composed as the previous scores. I can hear just as much going on in there as I could in LotR. You still have yet to give me concrete arguments as to why you think it's inferior. What does this score not have that made Man of Steel work for you?

    Other than that, I can agree on all your points. I'll try not and be so touchy in the future...but I can't promise not to break out into the occasional fanboy rant (although I prefer the term "impassioned defense," myself) in the future. wink beer
  7. Steven wrote
    I rather like Newman's score. I may be its only fan around here.*

    *Shameless, shameless fishing


    I haven't heard it outside of the film, but it's great in it. Proof as ever that Newman can score anything.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2014 edited
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    I'll try not and be so touchy in the future...but I can't promise not to break out into the occasional fanboy rant (although I prefer the term "impassioned defense," myself) in the future. wink beer


    Well we don't want to bore ourselves up with monotony, do we? wink beer

    As for Smaug, it's some stuff i heard from insiders, i hope it's not true; but i am afraid it echoes on the actual music itself. Anyway beer
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2014
    franz_conrad wrote
    Steven wrote
    I rather like Newman's score. I may be its only fan around here.*

    *Shameless, shameless fishing


    I haven't heard it outside of the film, but it's great in it. Proof as ever that Newman can score anything.


    I have heard it in both mediums. You're both absolutely right. I think Newman is, along with Williams, one of the last few older and absolutely great film composers out there; they really get the medium, what it needs, what film music really is; every film they have ever scored.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2014
    Oh, I think there are still quite a few of them. What I think really impresses about Newman is a step further even than Michael mentioned above - "proof that Newman can score anything" - this is true and he manages to do it in "his way" - lots of great composers around working in film with distinctive styles but few who can so stick to their musical guns, not compromise a single natural musical instinct, and still feel at home in any film.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2014
    Newman is, indeed, teh awesums.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2014 edited
    *maybe i wasn't clear enough, i meant from within the older generation of film composers, not everyone. In the youngsters, and especially from the Spanish area, there are MANY of them who really get what film music really is too! smile
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2014
    I thought Saving Mr Banks was a bit "ordinary" by his standards though (away from the film).
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2014 edited
    Demetris wrote
    *maybe i wasn't clear enough, i meant from within the older generation of film composers, not everyone. In the youngsters, and especially from the Spanish area, there are MANY of them who really get what film music really is too! smile


    I always get in trouble when I say it, but I'm not sure Williams's dramatic instincts are quite up there with his compositional brilliance. I don't think he could/can quite "do anything" the way some could/can.
  8. WHY ARE WE WHISPERING?
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2014 edited
    Well i too agree that he feels a bit numb during the last decade, but maybe you mean more generally? As in his wider work, older scores included?
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2014
    I did. Only occasionally, though. For the most part he was quite skilful at avoiding the ones he wouldn't be at home in.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2014 edited
    I personally believe he's such a great composer, who is capable of such higher stuff than what the schmaltzy luke-wark films they're frequently given to him, actually demand from him as a composer. I think he feels somewhat disappointed and does the minimum, standard-procedure for many of these films. Spielberg isn't at the top of his game either during the last few years, he doesn't challenge him as composer, like he used to do. What's your view?
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2014
    Timmer wrote
    I'm very surprised to see that 12 YEARS A SLAVE isn't in the nominations. "worthy" films near as always get an Oscar nom for score regardless of the music quality.

    As for the song noms I vote Pharrell Williams for the win. Brilliant and catchy song. Love it!!


    Tim, what did you think of the 12 years a slave score? There's a score only promo circulating around too which is basically variations (or rather repetitions) on the Solomon track and a brilliant piece of sound design / Aleatoric music that surprised me greatly, if actually composed by Zimmer.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2014 edited
    Demetris wrote
    I personally believe he's such a great composer, who is capable of such higher stuff than what the schmaltzy luke-wark films they're frequently given to him, actually demand from him as a composer. I think he feels somewhat disappointed and does the minimum, standard-procedure for many of these films. Spielberg isn't at the top of his game either during the last few years, he doesn't challenge him as composer, like he used to do. What's your view?


    I agree, though now he's in his 80s I can't argue with that and it almost feels like Spielberg might be making these Americana-drenched films just so he can get Williams doing the "Copland Mk 2" stuff he evidently loves and feels so comfortable doing. (Even film music's great innovators, Goldsmith and Morricone for example, retreated into safer territory when they reached a certain age - though there's still a creative sparkle to some of Morricone's latter-day output.)

    I was more thinking of earlier in his career to be honest - not sure he ever did "straight drama" that well - he could do things like Sleepers or the Oliver Stone films so well because there's such a flair to the filmmaking that he could latch onto with flair in the music - but the Presumed Innocent school, I'm not sure that was really for him (and he rarely did anything like that, which I'm sure is because he recognised it himself). And at times when a lighter touch was needed, I don't think he could quite ever get that - he could do lighter moments in heavier films but I'm not sure he ever did a "light film" that well.