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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2019
    Thor wrote
    That's not it at all. Most of this bashing comes from reactionary film score fans who have no clue about Holkenborg and where he comes from. These "criticisms" are so transparent, it's ridiculous.


    False!

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorCaliburn
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2019
    Steven wrote
    There's a reason for that: He's not a very good composer and yet he continues getting high-end gigs. Film music fans tend to notice that sort of thing.


    I have the impression that he has quite an audience. I have also seen people on social media quite happy with their ALITA Cds. Apparently, the target group is not us.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2019 edited
    Caliburn wrote
    I have the impression that he has quite an audience. I have also seen people on social media quite happy with their ALITA Cds. Apparently, the target group is not us.


    Well, I am certainly in it. I tell you, sometimes I'm embarassed to be a 'film music fan' when I read the kind of ignorant, dismissive cheap shots on display in film music forums in relation to JXL. One would think we fans were smart people able to contextualize, or at the very least provide constructive criticism, but experience has proven otherwise.
    I am extremely serious.
  1. I am not quite sure that it's about not understanding where he comes from. It's more like people don't really care about it and if anything it actually works against him in terms of the more orchestral stuff he is slated to do.

    While that score didn't get noticed too much, I haven't heard anyone saying bad stuff about Distance between Dreams or however that surfing film was called. People complain about Tomb Raider and the more action-based stuff. Mad Max Fury Road also had a warmer reception when people saw the film and its gritty setting.

    So what exactly do you think is not contextualized? Even considering his EDM background, the things he mostly does are closer to blockbuster/epic writing, where he is given the ensemble you would expect from the more traditional scores of this type. Also criticized is his mix, where everything gets buried under compression and limiters. What has his background got to do with that?
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  2. after reading this exchange of thoughts I now took to actually listen to Alita: Battle Angle. I don't have the faintest idea about the film this score was written for. All I can say is, that I liked what I heard. Modernized Vangelis if you so want. A fine blend of symphonic a electronic elements.

    smile Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
  3. My review of ALITA: BATTLE ANGEL, for anyone who's interested:

    https://moviemusicuk.us/2019/03/19/alit … olkenborg/

    Jon
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2019
    PawelStroinski wroteWhile that score didn't get noticed too much, I haven't heard anyone saying bad stuff about Distance between Dreams or however that surfing film was called.


    That's exactly my point. It's his best score so far, but few have heard it (or bothered to check it out), being more content to slag off the louder stuff (which in some cases is actually called for and very well done).
    I am extremely serious.
  4. Thor wrote
    Steven wrote
    There's a reason for that: He's not a very good composer and yet he continues getting high-end gigs. Film music fans tend to notice that sort of thing.


    That's not it at all. Most of this bashing comes from reactionary film score fans who have no clue about Holkenborg and where he comes from. These "criticisms" are so transparent, it's ridiculous.

    Except that very much is it. We don't give a flying fuck where he comes from. It doesn't matter. All that matters is the quality of the film scores he write, which has been below par for the most part. Sure, there are the occasional flashes of something decent and maybe he can eventually develop into a middling-to-okay composer in 10 years' time. And I honestly don't mind him working on stuff like Distance Between Dreams. But in the meanwhile there are guys like Don Davis or Edward Shearmur or Joel McNeely or Christopher Young or David Arnold who are sitting on top of ten times the talent JXL will ever have but between the five of them haven't gotten as many good assignments in the last 20 years as JXL has gotten in the last 5. Just imagine a film like Mad Max Fury Road in the hands of someone who can actually write high-quality, aggressive, intelligent action music instead of just endless pounding.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2019
    Thor wrote
    Caliburn wrote
    I have the impression that he has quite an audience. I have also seen people on social media quite happy with their ALITA Cds. Apparently, the target group is not us.


    Well, I am certainly in it. I tell you, sometimes I'm embarassed to be a 'film music fan' when I read the kind of ignorant, dismissive cheap shots on display in film music forums in relation to JXL. One would think we fans were smart people able to contextualize, or at the very least provide constructive criticism, but experience has proven otherwise.


    Oh boo hoo, a crappy but highly successful composer is getting criticism from a niche area of the Internet. Cry me a river.
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      CommentAuthorCaliburn
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2019
    Extremely funny to have Jon's quite positive review in the middle of this discussion :D
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      CommentAuthorRalph Kruhm
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2019 edited
    I found Fury Road to be a relentless, terrific experience because of the endless pounding. It felt as if all senses were under fire, constantly. It was an exhausting, but immense fun ride. My daughter felt the same. My wife, however, didn't care for the whole movie at all, music included. I've decided to ignore her judgement.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2019 edited
    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    I found Fury Road to be a relentless, terrific experience because of the endless pounding. It felt as if all senses were under fire, constantly. It was an exhausting, but immense fun ride. My daughter felt the same. My wife, however, didn't care for the whole movie at all, music included. I've decided to ignore her judgement.


    Yes, indeed! That is exactly the point. If one is not able to see the purpose of this musical approach in a film like MAD MAX: FURY ROAD -- basically one long heavy metal car chase -- well, then one is not really able to contextualize. Furthermore, it also puts into relieff the moments where he really takes it down for total contrast, like the gorgeous, melancholic, orchestral theme "Many Mothers".
    I am extremely serious.
  5. OK, but what does that have to do with him keeping essentially THE SAME sound for Tomb Raider or The Dark Tower for example? You just say that people who dislike Holkenborg can't contextualize and frankly, considering my experience of hearing the guy in the films he scored, I would rather say he's incapable of that.

    Where is exactly the huge skill set, outside of Mad Max Fury Road and Distance Between Dreams (which is in his pre-film scoring comfort zone anyway and that's why it's nice)? What makes him the talent you think he is?

    The proof is actually on you in this case. I think it'd be fairly easy to criticize his orchestra-based scores on technical terms, whether it's the orchestration itself or the mix.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2019 edited
    PawelStroinski wrote
    OK, but what does that have to do with him keeping essentially THE SAME sound for Tomb Raider or The Dark Tower for example?


    Neither of those are personal favourites, but the scores are perfectly suited for the type of saturated action extravaganzas that they are (I think TOMB RAIDER is underrated as a film, btw, while THE DARK TOWER was a disappointment). I also don't think they're that similar to MAD MAX. That score is, literally, a beast of its own.

    Where is exactly the huge skill set, outside of Mad Max Fury Road and Distance Between Dreams (which is in his pre-film scoring comfort zone anyway and that's why it's nice)? What makes him the talent you think he is?


    I've gone into this many times before. I first of all admire his immense versatility. He can do the loud RC-isms easily and better than most, but he can also do superb, thematic orchestral passages and -- for obvious reasons -- brilliant electronica. It's in those last two areas I've been particularly impressed. His work is not flawless, but when he's on, he's really on -- and certainly one of the most talented film composers out there right now.
    I am extremely serious.
  6. Ralph Kruhm wrote
    I found Fury Road to be a relentless, terrific experience because of the endless pounding. It felt as if all senses were under fire, constantly. It was an exhausting, but immense fun ride. My daughter felt the same. My wife, however, didn't care for the whole movie at all, music included. I've decided to ignore her judgement.

    I don't mind endless pounding. Just make it good endless pounding. I feel like this sentence could be taken out of context
  7. should*

    Thor wrote
    PawelStroinski wrote
    OK, but what does that have to do with him keeping essentially THE SAME sound for Tomb Raider or The Dark Tower for example?


    Neither of those are personal favourites, but the scores are perfectly suited for the type of saturated action extravaganzas that they are (I think TOMB RAIDER is underrated as a film, btw, while THE DARK TOWER was a disappointment). I also don't think they're that similar to MAD MAX. That score is, literally, a beast of its own.

    Where is exactly the huge skill set, outside of Mad Max Fury Road and Distance Between Dreams (which is in his pre-film scoring comfort zone anyway and that's why it's nice)? What makes him the talent you think he is?


    I've gone into this many times before. I first of all admire his immense versatility. He can do the loud RC-isms easily and better than most, but he can also do superb, thematic orchestral passages and -- for obvious reasons -- brilliant electronica. It's in those last two areas I've been particularly impressed. His work is not flawless, but when he's on, he's really on -- and certainly one of the most talented film composers out there right now.


    Well, to me, for one, except Brimstone and Distance he's been doing the same endless pounding all the time. There is no subtlety, no nuance to it. Just lots of drums.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 21st 2019
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Well, to me, for one, except Brimstone and Distance he's been doing the same endless pounding all the time. There is no subtlety, no nuance to it. Just lots of drums.


    Well, then I think you should set aside time to properly explore his work.
    I am extremely serious.
  8. Well, what I heard is not promising enough for me.

    And what you call versatile is a certain pattern he went into. However, the biggest complaint I hear about his music is about the way he mixes it.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorCaliburn
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2019
    Alita has fewer drums though. That is a fact :-)