[Closed] Now Playing XLVII

NP: The Bourne Supremacy (2004) - John Powell

The spake to me words of wisdom and - behold - they were right. This one is even better.

Volker

The Bourne Ultimatum - John Powell

[spoiler]Damn[/spoiler] good.

He created ENGLAND ( or Engerland ) and kicked all you Norse horn heads out of the country so I guess it's not a great leap.

Well, Engern and Angeln were Saxons of course. They founded England defeating that little Celtic domain down south in Cornwall. Come to think of it England is basically a German colony. Fitting that House Hanover is ruling it.

Volker

I am not assigning any causality or influence to KING ARTHUR, merely emphasizing its significance as a signpost along the way. I thought we were talking about the history of ostinato usage and I was attempting to portray that while it may seem like "just another 90s Zimmer score" from the perspective of 2015, at the time it was a significant advancement in the usage of the device. Of course there is more to "the modern sound" than ostinato usage and there is no similar "vibe" between the two scores but after reading Pawel's comment I thought we were talking about the history of ostinato usage in general and those scores are both significant signposts albeit with completely different "vibes". I apologize if I misunderstood the conversation.

Britannia rules Jerusalem? Not since 1948.

Yeah, Sachsen-Coburg it is. Even more fitting even though modern day states of Saxony and Saxony-Anhalt have nothing to do with the old Saxons nor has House Sachsen-Coburg. The state of Lower-Saxony on the other side has. Combinded with Westphalia (which is essentially Upper-Saxony) it is the area where the old Saxons lived.

OK, ok. but realtions are still close, also to House Hanover.

I don't know about anyone else, but I've certainly not been talking about the 'history of ostinato usage' -- which is a weird thing to say in itself, since it basically means the history of repeating figures or rhythms. I've been trying to be FAR, FAR more specific than that, but it seems to be coming back to that reduction. Like an ostinato!

The history of ostinato usage in modern film music and the modern "sound". I'm talking about the recent history of the specific use of ostinato that you and Pawel have been discussing all week, and you know that. Do you have a better term for "ostinato as used in modern film music"? If you do, then I will certainly use it in the future.

I only got involved in the discussion because of what Pawel said about KING ARTHUR being of similar important to the development of the "modern sound" as Bourne. I'm sorry I am not technically advanced enough to use the exact right terms, I'll shut up now

Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia - Jerry Fielding

One of his best. Strident modernism blended with colourful Mexicana. Brilliant.

I clearly need to listen to KING ARTHUR again, because I'm not seeing or hearing what you guys are hearing here. It's always seemed like a late extension of his 90s stylings to me. Nothing more, nothing less. But if there is any "ostinato-based" influence (sigh!), then why couldn't it be attributed to BOURNE, which came out two years earlier? Why are you all so insistent on making Hans Zimmer immune to the BOURNE riff influence?

Of course it sounds different. That's because Zimmer does his "own spin" on the prevalent trend. That's my opinion and evaluation. Zimmer has always been very much in tune with what's happening in popular music and on the film score scene -- sometimes he's even the one who starts trends (like the power anthems in the 90s). So in this case he notices the influence of his former student John Powell, takes it into consideration and then develops it into the BOURNE RIFF STYLE VOL. 2 - THE ZIMMER VERSION -- starting primarily with BATMAN BEGINS.

If there had been any other score in Zimmer's oeuvre prior to BOURNE that was clearly a precedent for the BATMAN BEGINS sound, then yes, I would buy your argument. But there isn't, really. A little bit here and there, of course (Zimmer will always be Zimmer), but not enough to justify the 'leap'.

Even though he may seem like the God of film music at the moment, Hans is NOT immune to other influences. It would be interesting to hear his own take on this particular subject. Wish I had asked him that question at the Q&A in Krakow last year instead of the 'power anthem' one.

No it isn't, and you know it, and you're deliberately being obtuse because I have repeatedly given examples of the specific phenomena I am referring to. But if you really are not interested despite you having been discussing this exact thing with Pawel whether you know it or not, you literally have no idea what I've been talking about the entire time and that's quite depressing. I will stay away from these discussions in the future because I don't want to be reminded that I inhabit a different headspace than almost everybody else where things that are glaringly obvious to me, don't even exist to other people. There is a clear phenomena / musical device / "thing" that appeared in the early 2000s that I have watched develop over the past 15 years and been fascinated by it and I would like to be able to talk about it with fellow film music fans but you are deliberately or otherwise making it impossible for me to do so by obsessing over the definition rather than the thing itself, having pre-concluded that because I don't know the right words and definitions, I couldn't possibly have any interesting or meaningful thoughts to share. Very well then. Since you obviously have zero interest in what I am trying to communicate as anything but a thing to argue with, I will stay away next time someone mentions a film music subject I happen to be extremely knowledgeable about in a non-verbal way. Because obviously this is a message board that is about using words to talk about film music and if someone is in a disadvantage in that area, well why should he or she even try? It's just slowing the others down really. I would not want to do that.

</emotions>

Well, we won't know that unless we ask him ourselves, I guess. I doubt it, to be honest.

I don't think anyone expected the kind of impact Doug Liman's BOURNE IDENTITY would have on the mainstream Hollywood action movie, with gritty lighting, handheld cameras, realistic action setpieces and so on. Not to mention a contemporary, REAL view of European cities. Hollywood hadn't seen anything like it since they applied European arthouse sentiments to action films in the late 60s and early 70s (FRENCH CONNECTION etc.). Powell's score became part of that whole thing. So the influential aspect is partly the sound itself, but even more the sound as applied to that particular style.

I think Zimmer was as influenced by the Bourne riff as anyone else doing action films post-2002, but as opposed to the others, he did his own twist on things and developped it further into the BATMAN films, INCEPTION and so on.

I know we will probably never agree here, so better to agree to disagree.

I don't really seem to get what's going on here.