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    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    Steven wrote
    I'm surprised they're still making WW2 films more than anything.


    I say bring on more as long as they're good and not full of bullshit lies. ( like the dafty U-571 )
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    Erik Woods wrote
    I just want to be clear, since I was the one that mentioned that Price's score for FURY wasn't appropriate for the time period, that I don't think a big sweeping symphonic score is the RIGHT way to score every film. I'm totally open to different scoring approaches but when I hear drum loops and stuff that sounds like it's out of sci-fi film (or a modern day Bruckheimer blockbuster) in a score that is meant for the 1945 time period, I'm a little thrown off and TURNED off.

    Admittedly, I haven't seen the film and maybe Price's more mechanical, edgy approach works with soldiers driving tanks and blowing shit up in World War II but to these ears I can't listen to FURY and say yeah, that seems appropriate. Just a personal observation.

    -Erik-


    Entirely reasonable! I also haven't seen the film, but I am really getting a hell of a lot out of the album. Absolutely not going to be for everyone though.
  1. Sometimes it's not the score's purpose to affirmatively support and enhance the cinmatic narrative. Sometimes the score is a critical annotation. I doesn't suck the viewer into the film on an emotional level. In the German tradition we call this "Entfremdung", a technique derived from the theatre theory of Bertolt Brecht.
    I haven't seen the film nor have I listened to the score. Yet I can imagine that an electronic abstract score might help the recipient to realise that is not a mere action fantasy but something that really happened and took the lives of 60 millions.
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014 edited
    Captain Future wrote
    Sometimes it's not the score's purpose to affirmatively support and enhance the cinmatic narrative. Sometimes the score is a critical annotation. I doesn't suck the viewer into the film on an emotional level. In the German tradition we call this "Entfremdung", a technique derived from the theatre theory of Bertolt Brecht.
    I haven't seen the film nor have I listened to the score. Yet I can imagine that an electronic abstract score might help the recipient to realise that is not a mere action fantasy but something that really happened and took the lives of 60 millions.


    I've always learned that the term is called 'verfremdung', but maybe it's used interchangeably with 'entfremdung' in Germany.

    In this case, though, I doubt that's its purpose. Rather the opposite, with the WW2 stuff channeled through a more contemporary film language -- clanging metal and explosions go hand in hand with the low-base, ostinato-driven music. I'll find out when I see the film. Right now, we're all just going by conjecture.
    I am extremely serious.
  2. shame Oops! It's "Verfremdung" of course. My bad!
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    Dracula Untold - Djawadi

    Insipid. Hilarious rip-offs from Kilar's score mix with entirely generic synthy rumblings and Man of Steel percussion.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    Thor wrote
    clanging metal and explosions go hand in hand with the low-base, ostinato-driven music.


    sleep
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    Southall wrote
    You're putting music over something where music doesn't naturally belong,


    What do you mean exactly? Cinema? No way you mean that music doesn't naturally belong on film in cinema. You mean something else i believe that i don't understand.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    It was a possibly inelegant way of stating the obvious (i.e. a tank battle doesn't actually have music playing over it in real life). I can't remember what my point was now.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014 edited
    As for Price, guys, my main problem is not a general, philosophical debate on how you should score ww2 films or any films in general or if music belongs on film in the first place. I am making a much simpler point: i don't like Price. I find his scoring one-dimensional (the fact that fury is gravity 2.0 should alarm more people than it does and i am stunned that nobody even questions this same approach for two wholly different films) and i think he's one of those cases that are now fashionable and will either 1) mature and change his whatever style will prove to be in the near future as he gets more gigs, or 2) vanish. Overrated as f*ck imo. It's the Santaolalla of 2013 (although Santaolalla later on proved to be a very good composer, when he started scoring films differently, evolved his style, wrote actual film scores that fit the films instead of the standard guitar plinky-plonky scores he used to do right at the very beginning regardless of different film styles).
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    Southall wrote
    It was a possibly inelegant way of stating the obvious (i.e. a tank battle doesn't actually have music playing over it in real life). I can't remember what my point was now.


    Of course it doesn't in real life. Drama, and cinematic narrative though, do have music playing ontop. In 1942, there was actual music being written, performed and heard by people: Classical and romantic era. It's not like scoring the Dinosaur age or a sci-fi set in the future. It's a ww2 period film. Yes you can take different directions but when you used the same lazy approach you did for a sci-fi film set in space, the last thing i'd expect is seasoned film music critics celebrating that very lazy approach of yours.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014 edited
    Demetris wrote
    As for Price, guys, my main problem is not a general, philosophical debate on how you should score ww2 films or any films in general or if music belongs on film in the first place. I am making a much simpler point: i don't like Price. I find his scoring one-dimensional (the fact that fury is gravity 2.0 should alarm more people than it does and i am stunned that nobody even questions this same approach for two wholly different films) and i think he's one of those cases that are now fashionable and will either 1) mature and change his whatever style will prove to be in the near future as he gets more gigs, or 2) vanish. Overrated as f*ck imo. It's the Santaolalla of 2013 (although Santaolalla later on proved to be a very good composer, when he started scoring films differently, evolved his style, wrote actual film scores that fit the films instead of the standard guitar plinky-plonky scores he used to do right at the very beginning regardless of different film styles).


    You may have mentioned this before! smile As you know I'm at completely the opposite end. The more composers like him doing something that's personal to him, even if it's not perfect, that means less films scored by talentless non-entities like Djawadi and Jablonsky doing something so unpersonal. I don't get the comparison with Santaolalla. He're more like Reznor I would suggest, someone who doesn't really know how to write film music so just writes music that then gets placed into films by filmmakers. I never thought he was deserving of all the hatred he got (and neither does Reznor) - probably an overreaction against the (unjustified) praise they get from the mainstream rather than a genuine disgust at what they're doing.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    Demetris wrote
    Southall wrote
    It was a possibly inelegant way of stating the obvious (i.e. a tank battle doesn't actually have music playing over it in real life). I can't remember what my point was now.


    Of course it doesn't in real life. Drama, and cinematic narrative though, do have music playing ontop. In 1942, there was actual music being written, performed and heard by people: Classical and romantic era. It's not like scoring the Dinosaur age or a sci-fi set in the future. It's a ww2 period film. Yes you can take different directions but when you used the same lazy approach you did for a sci-fi film set in space, the last thing i'd expect is seasoned film music critics celebrating that very lazy approach of yours.


    Lazy? I can't imagine the effort that goes into crafting something as elaborate as Fury. There is so much going on. I know you hate it, but it's not lazy.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014 edited
    Santaolalla, not in the way that their music is any similar, or their approach, but the fact that he too scored his first couple of big gigs, with the same simplistic, repetitive music and same style, regardless being different films with different needs. Later on, his style matured and managed to incorporate his trademarked musical devices into wholly coherent scores, fitting each new film he scored later on accordingly.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    Southall wrote
    Demetris wrote
    Southall wrote
    It was a possibly inelegant way of stating the obvious (i.e. a tank battle doesn't actually have music playing over it in real life). I can't remember what my point was now.


    Of course it doesn't in real life. Drama, and cinematic narrative though, do have music playing ontop. In 1942, there was actual music being written, performed and heard by people: Classical and romantic era. It's not like scoring the Dinosaur age or a sci-fi set in the future. It's a ww2 period film. Yes you can take different directions but when you used the same lazy approach you did for a sci-fi film set in space, the last thing i'd expect is seasoned film music critics celebrating that very lazy approach of yours.


    Lazy? I can't imagine the effort that goes into crafting something as elaborate as Fury. There is so much going on. I know you hate it, but it's not lazy.


    It is to my ears, sorry. When it's basically expansions on the previous hit you scored last year, a sci-fi film, and this new ww2 filmscore you just put out now, still sounds like expanded ideas on some music that was previously left out of your last year sci-fi, it does sound lazy to my ears.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    Has anyone seen FURY?
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  3. Southall wrote
    Dracula Untold - Djawadi

    Insipid. Hilarious rip-offs from Kilar's score mix with entirely generic synthy rumblings and Man of Steel percussion.

    One of the most enjoyable scores of the year. Just shows how fucked up I really am.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    Southall wrote
    Dracula Untold - Djawadi

    Insipid. Hilarious rip-offs from Kilar's score mix with entirely generic synthy rumblings and Man of Steel percussion.

    One of the most enjoyable scores of the year. Just shows how fucked up I really am.


    It's fucked up to be entertained by things that are designed for no other purpose than to be entertaining?
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    Demetris wrote
    the fact that fury is gravity 2.0 should alarm more people than it does and i am stunned that nobody even questions this same approach for two wholly different films


    Although I understand your trepidation, the 'same approach' to 'two wholly different films' (a word I advise you copyright) can and often does work. There's always going to be parallels between two very different subject matters. Perhaps he was hired because of his work on Gravity, and was asked to provide something similar?

    It may not sound nice to hear out of its context (and this I would agree with you on), but it can be a very effective way of scoring. Dave Porter's music for Breaking Bad is a particularly good example of 'bad music on album' but incredibly effective music in context.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    Timmer wrote
    Has anyone seen FURY?


    I've been in various relationships, so yes.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    FalkirkBairn wrote
    Southall wrote
    Dracula Untold - Djawadi

    Insipid. Hilarious rip-offs from Kilar's score mix with entirely generic synthy rumblings and Man of Steel percussion.

    One of the most enjoyable scores of the year. Just shows how fucked up I really am.


    I imagine a lot more people will agree with you than with me. I don't think it's completely awful, I have to say, especially by its composer's usual standards.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    Timmer wrote
    Has anyone seen FURY?


    I don't think so. That's what makes this discussion so futile. Why don't we return to this when we've all seen it and can make our judgements about how it works in context accordingly?
    I am extremely serious.
  4. Good idea! Shall we have beer in the meantime? beer
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    YES!!! beer
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    NP: MALEFICENT (James Newton Howard)

    This is excellent! JNH comes awfully close to old heights here (although the album is a bit too long).
    I am extremely serious.
  5. Demetris wrote
    Southall wrote
    You're putting music over something where music doesn't naturally belong,


    What do you mean exactly? Cinema? No way you mean that music doesn't naturally belong on film in cinema. You mean something else i believe that i don't understand.


    Underscore is a more formalist element in cinema. It tends to work against the impression of mimesis (seeing something really happen) in favour of diegesis (a story is being told to us).
    Which is why films that seek that verite feel (eg cloverfield,
    a separation) struggle to find much room for score.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    Cheers guys! beer

    Probably a bit early for you Michael wink
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  6. Timmer wrote
    Has anyone seen FURY?


    Don't we spend most of our time here talking about music we haven't heard for films we haven't yet seen? I thought this was things worked here. wink (Despite all the greatness we could be luxuriating in.)

    To be honest the film looks boring. It's hard to find an action film that wouldn't play much better if they didnt cut all the action in half and rewrite everything else in between. This just looks like the same old bunch of archetypal soldiers riding around in tanks. Great. :/
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014 edited
    I think it looks great and exciting, if juding only by the trailers (a sort of Hollywood version of the Russian film WHITE TIGER from 2012?). But as I said -- I'll chime in when I've seen it.
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2014
    Timmer wrote
    Has anyone seen FURY?


    I was only asking. not saying anyone can't comment without seeing the film. wink
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt