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Vanilla 1.1.4 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

 
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      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2014 edited
    I'll admit I don't have the most sparklingly clean morality when it comes to obtaining music without paying for it, but I hate the idea of taking music from small labels like MovieScore Media. After the sterling reviews on the new "Coliseum" score in the Now Playing thread, I went looking for a copy of it, not realizing who the release label was, and unexpectedly found a familiar face on a certain piracy forum. I present the brief exchange from that forum because the gently sarcastic takedown of the would-be pirate was most amusing!

    Pirate wrote
    Does anybody have this score ? COLISEUM by Marc Timon Barcelo.
    The samples (iTunes + Amazon) are epic and very god.
    Thanks for the Help !


    Mikael Carlsson wrote
    Happy you like the score. It's available to buy on iTunes and Amazon, and you can stream it on Spotify. The CD is coming soon via Screen Archives. If you like the music, it would be much appreciated if you would like to pay for it. Perhaps a novel idea.

    Coliseum (Marc Timón Barceló)

    Thanks,

    mc


    biggrin
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2014
    a) what were you doing in a piracy forum? and b) who was the 'familiar face' in question?
    I am extremely serious.
  1. Mikael was the familiar face. And Scribe admitted not having exactly "clean morality" already smile
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2014 edited
    Yeah, apologies if this is considered inappropriate, if so feel free to remove it, I won't whine. Just thought it might make some people smile. "Perhaps a novel idea." smile
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2014
    Nothing wrong with your post. Thanks for sharing your story.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2014
    Indeed, very nice answer by Mikael!
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2014
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Mikael was the familiar face. And Scribe admitted not having exactly "clean morality" already smile


    Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I thought the familiar face was the pirate in some way.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2014
    smile
    It's good to see Mikael actively involved and reaching out to his (potential) fan base....even though I'm not sure the sarcastic last line will make him many friends (as much as I understand it).
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthormoviescore
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2014
    Martijn wrote
    smile
    It's good to see Mikael actively involved and reaching out to his (potential) fan base....even though I'm not sure the sarcastic last line will make him many friends (as much as I understand it).


    People who steal my music do not deserve my friendship.

    mc
  2. They certainly don't.
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
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      CommentAuthormoviescore
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2014
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2014 edited
    moviescore wrote
    People who steal my music do not deserve my friendship.


    Honestly interested: would you not rather convert these people into paying customers rather than alienate them?
    Don't you think it's more likely they purchase your issues when you point them in the right direction with a comment like "and you know what? It's not even expensive! Plus it's legal!" rather than sarcasm?

    Heck, I don't know. Maybe MSM is doing well enough (I most sincerely hope so!) for you to blow off a little steam from time to time.



    Well, that argument just goes around and around and around, so is exceedingly unlikely to convince anyone (those entrenched in their points of view will just cherrypick those arguments pertinent to their aldready held beliefs).

    Hence my interest in the personal approach.
    It would be very interesting to see if more customers can be won in the "bowels of the internet" once they see how easy and relatively inexpensive just getting the actual product online now is.

    (Oh, to be sure, it's still not entirely 'one-click', as I myself have noticed, but I honestly think we're getting there!)
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2014
    I think his comment was appropriate having spent a good part of my life in retail. If customers had their way I would have to pay them to take the merchandise.
    Tom
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2014
    Customers must be SUCH a burden to an entrepreneur!
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  3. Who's being sarcastic now? biggrin
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2014
    biggrin
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2014
    Piracy is another problem which needs to be addressed. Is the answer with Spotify Mikael?
    Tom
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthormoviescore
    • CommentTimeOct 25th 2014
    I don't know if Spotify is the answer, to be honest. It's legal, and they distribute royalties, but for small labels and artists the revenues generated by streaming are of a symbolic value and nothing more.

    Martijn, to me, your argument is a bit provocative. It is clear that these people want the music, but they don't want to pay for it. However, absurdly, many of them seem to pay for the filesharing service used for the illegal distribution of the music, so they're clearly not unfamiliar with the concept of buying and paying.

    If you want some candy and enter a candy store, you don't get any candy unless you can pay for it. But these people eat candy anyway. And they don't understand that if they continue to do that, at the end of the day there will be no more candy. The people who make candy can't do it for free, they need their expenses covered and to make a living.

    For some reason, in the past ten years there has been a development where any product carrying intellectual property - film, music, games - is more and more considered something people should be able to consume for free. Are you saying it's because these people are not informed and needs to be educated? I highly doubt that they don't know they "should" pay for it.

    mc
  4. moviescore wrote
    (...)
    For some reason, in the past ten years there has been a development where any product carrying intellectual property - film, music, games - is more and more considered something people should be able to consume for free. Are you saying it's because these people are not informed and needs to be educated? I highly doubt that they don't know they "should" pay for it.

    mc


    I agree. Just allow the following remark: This is not a development of the past ten years. This discussion is going on since the introduction of the compact cassette as a music storing device in the early 1970s. I just read an old article from the German magazine DER SPIEGEL from 1975 dealing with complaints of the music industry how mixed tapes, recorded from radio shows, will destroy the trade.
    I remember when I was a teenager, whenever one of the guys had a new LP - or later CD - it was tranferred several times to cassette.
    Of course the problem really became serious with the introduction of CDR, mp3 and broadband internet. There is no denying that. All I want to say is that the attitude towards free music isn't altogether new.

    Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeOct 25th 2014 edited
    moviescore wrote
    Martijn, to me, your argument is a bit provocative. It is clear that these people want the music, but they don't want to pay for it. However, absurdly, many of them seem to pay for the filesharing service used for the illegal distribution of the music, so they're clearly not unfamiliar with the concept of buying and paying.


    Well, of course.
    I think "education" or "awareness" on piracy and IP are stages long since past.
    Everyone knows what they're doing.

    The only argument I proposed (and it wasn't even really meant as an argument, but rather a question. A ponderance, if you will.) was that showing those who want the music that you are a nice guy, trying to make a living, and actually personally connected to the product you put out as well as clearly taking an interest in a potential customer base, might work a lot better and gain you a great deal of goodwill.

    Of course in your response on the pirate site you only used the slightest bit of irony, so I doubt you have alienated anyone or changed anyone's mind. So the point is an abstract one, I'll readily admit.

    It just seems to me generally that more flies are caught with honey than with vinegar.

    I most specifically did NOT make any kind of argument fore or against current and recent developments in intellectual property. It wasn't and isn't my point to argue the law here. The links I put in my earlier post refer to articles that respectively show evidence that
    - small artists are very much hurt by piracy
    - piracy actually increases revenue
    - It really makes absolutely no difference to revenue

    So clearly there's nothing conclusive at all.
    That's why I staid away from it as a base argument fore or against approaching potential customers on an "underground" forum.

    However, the issue that the data is contradictory, coupled with the fact that especially in the US, IP protection has gone WAY beyond its original intent (the "Bono Act" just being one deeply selfserving and cynical example), has -I feel- installed an image with most people benefitting from piracy of "evil faceless corporations" who "deserve to be robbed blind anyway".

    So my ponderance was that to counter that image with a "nice guy" attitude might actually help a mind shift. Especially since many "pirates" only download because it's so easy (man is a creature of habit).

    Again, I am not an entrepreneur, and Mikael was hardly as acidic or outright offensive as certain record producers I have sometimes seen posting on certain other film forums, so my thoughts are just that: a personal consideration.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeOct 25th 2014
    I had an experience to share, but typing on an iPad has somehow lost me half of my post, so I'll get back to that later on. Maybe.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeOct 25th 2014
    Did you press the undo button?
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      CommentAuthormoviescore
    • CommentTimeNov 3rd 2014 edited
    Just an update on the subject. My COLISEUM album (by Marc Timon Barcelo) was shared on this site a few days ago, by someone who had the guts to end his post with the following line:

    Please don't steal my posts and claim them as your own!

    Hypocricy defined!

    The upload is a Spotify rip (!) and I am sorry, Martijn, to disappoint you but my answer on this is probably more on the "acidic" side...

    mc
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeNov 3rd 2014
    I have no stake in the MSM business, so how could I be disappointed?

    The only think I ever wondered was whether in your professional opinion it would not be better to catch flies with honey than with vinegar.

    If not, fair enough.
    It's YOUR livelihood, so you know best.

    (On the incident you describe above: maybe it says something about my world view that I continue to be amazed far too often by the the truly staggering cognitive dissonance that allows such people to miss the rampant irony in their statements and actions.)
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  5. The fight against music piracy isn't helped by regional release of music rather than simultaneous worldwide release.

    Mikael, I'm assuming that the timing for the digital and CD release of Daniel Pemberton's score for The Game:

    Release date (digital, USA and Canada only): November 4, 2014
    Release date (digital, rest of world): February, 2015
    Release date (CD): February, 2015

    ...wasn't your idea?
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeNov 4th 2014
    Oh, I didn't realize I had started something, sorry shame
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeNov 4th 2014
    No you're not.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeNov 4th 2014
    You have a LOT to answer for, young man.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2014
    It's a most intriguing problem especially for the smaller releases. Perhaps I could help you Mikael by trying the technique that Kritzerland does. Feel free to PM me.
    Tom
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2014
    A lot of promoting on the websites and using ebay could work.
    Tom
    listen to more classical music!