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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2016 edited
    I guess this is one of those "event films" that needs its own thread.

    Came back from the film now. The first 2/3rds are quite good, the last third is rather poor -- interchangeable with any given Marvel extravaganza of the last decade. Throughout the film, there are weaknesses and strenghts. The strenghts are where Snyder is allowed room to really do his stuff -- like the gorgeous dream sequences. The weaknesses are in predictable plotting, over-acting by Jesse Eisenberg and some of the run-of-mill, grating 'noise' (both visually and aurally).

    Unlike most others, I like several elements in the score -- especially the references to MAN OF STEEL, the guitar stuff for Wonder Woman and the SHERLOCK HOLMES-like theme for Lex Luthor, which pans out as the chord progressions underlying a slow 90s power anthem. Also some of the Wagnerian choral music is fine. But the intense drumming was done much better in MAD MAX and the onslaught of action music is also "standard" and nothing to write home about.

    Overall, a very uneven experience. 3 out of 6.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2016 edited
    Nothing in comparison to Nolan's films, i am sure, right? Also isn't Jesse Eisenberg's all types of acting, merely the same thing, don't you find? smile
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2016 edited
    This should have gone in the Zimmer thread. Or in the recent viewing thread. Or at least in the film category.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2016
    Yes, I don't think this film warrants its own thread really.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2016 edited
    Really? People are talking about this film left and right, and more comments are bound to come in when it premieres widely, so it seems like a separate thread is better than clogging up those other threads. It's an "event film", as far as I'm concerned.

    Demetris wrote
    Nothing in comparison to Nolan's films, i am sure, right? Also isn't Jesse Eisenberg's all types of acting, merely the same thing, don't you find? smile


    While Nolan produced this, it can't compare to his BATMAN films. They're on a whole other level. But the disappointing thing here is that it didn't even live up to Snyder's auteur standard. At least not consistently throughout -- there are individual sequences that are stunning and exactly what I hoped for!

    Eisenberg showed his limitations as an actor in this, I think. He fits well in indie cinema, where he gets to be gloomy or quirky or apathetic, but he's not a very good villain.
    I am extremely serious.
  1. Thor wrote
    Snyder's auteur standard.

    lol
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2016
    You can laugh all you want, but he is most definitely that. Whether you like his style is of course an entirely different discussion.
    I am extremely serious.
  2. Can you, please, (perhaps again) say what are the makings of Snyder's auteur style? I wonder what I seriously (except the script material, I know it's a Hollywood film, but stating a point, repeatedly, on average every 5 minutes during an hour is a bit too much even for Americans, I think) disliked about Man of Steel.

    Actually, to the point that I was invited to a pre-screening of Batman v. Superman in an IMAX cinema (probably a press screening) and I don't know what to do as after Man of Steel I vowed never to see a Zack Snyder film again. And yes, I've been good at boycotting 300 even if it's on TV averagely two-three times a year! (there my issue is what Hollywood does with history rather than Zack Snyder being the director, but anyway).
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2016
    <changed the category>
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2016 edited
    PawelStroinski wrote

    there my issue is what Hollywood does with history


    I've always had a problem with Hollywood v History. I'm geeky on that shit and am not as easily mollified by Hollywood treatments as some of my friends.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  3. It would be good if all the hyperbole for this film was gathered together in one topic.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2016
    Martijn wrote
    <changed the category>


    Why? It's about the film AND the music.
    I am extremely serious.
  4. This film is a non-event.

    Man of Steel put me off of ever watching a sequel / spinoff of that wretched travesty.

    Normally I like Snyder's films. I think Watchmen is an stylish, intelligent and unconventional take on superheroes. It took me a couple of watches to fully appreciate but I'll never do that with Man of Steel, because it lost me after half an hour and by the end of the film I was rolling with my eyes and swearing at the makers of completely missing the point of the character of Superman. And the CGI overload made me vomit... crazy
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2016 edited
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Can you, please, (perhaps again) say what are the makings of Snyder's auteur style?


    Stylistic, for example:

    * An "excess in setpieces" -- meaning that one leads into the other, and even within one, he puts layer upon layer of causality (it's not enough that a superhero throws a train through the air; it's also thrown back!)

    * dream sequences (usually slow -- with "Ridley Scott"-ian elements in the air, large fields, ruins, a 'fantasy'-like lighting)

    * collision of styles

    * "grain" (a photographic element)

    * abrupt, but overall constant flowing tempo changes

    Thematic, for example:

    * Physicality vs. spirituality

    * the individual vs. the collective

    * Mix of classical myth and pop culture (like the problematization of 'kitch art')
    I am extremely serious.
  5. Man of Steel employed quite a bit of hand-held camera work (including a rather nonsensical shot when Superman is first captured by Zod, the only thing I recognized was a shocked military officer, because the camera finally decided to linger on something for more than a frame), is that a norm of his?
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2016
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Man of Steel employed quite a bit of hand-held camera work (including a rather nonsensical shot when Superman is first captured by Zod, the only thing I recognized was a shocked military officer, because the camera finally decided to linger on something for more than a frame), is that a norm of his?


    I wouldn't say that steadicam is a 'feature' of his auteurship in and of itself, but he often employs it as one out of many elements. In fact, it's the very segue from one mode to the other that defines his work (and the way he weaves it seamlessly together with editing to create constant tempo changes).
    I am extremely serious.
  6. I don't mean steadicam, as steadicam implies a somewhat smooth movement. Man of Steel uses lots of hand-held camera work, almost to the Bourne level.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2016
    OK. But the same still applies.
    I am extremely serious.
  7. I prefer my Hollywood blockbuster Dogma free.
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2016 edited
    Captain Future wrote
    I prefer my Hollywood blockbuster Dogma free.


    Not sure what you mean with 'dogma', but I prefer my Hollywood blockbusters to offer something "more" than just the superficial (I can enjoy that too, of course, but the best ones have one extra gear).
    I am extremely serious.
  8. Lars van Trier's 1995 "Dogma Rules" that contained the use of shaky cams. I quickly became a trademark of progressive film making, eventually even in Hollywood. So much so that it has become a cliché.
    It's basically a "Verfremdungseffekt" al la Bertolt Brecht. It gives the film a documentary feel. You are breaking the fourth wall. The cherry on the cake is drops of blood on the camera lens.
    OK, I just don't like that style.

    Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2016 edited
    I agree that there are examples of hand-held being over-used (CLOVERFIELD almost made me throw up!), but it's a great tool in the right hands. There wouldn't be any SAVING PRIVATE RYAN or BOURNE or legendary documentaries without it! (I also like the Danish Dogma films for what they are, btw).

    In Snyder's case, he uses it as one of many tools to "shake things up", so to speak. But it's not something that defines his work in itself.
    I am extremely serious.
  9. Actually, I think that the Hollywood hand-held galore is the effect of the popularity of Saving Private Ryan and, later, Gladiator and Black Hawk Down (itself referencing Ryan in its style) rather than Dogme 95. But hand-held camera itself I'd say is an invention of the Nouvelle Vague and later adapted to Hollywood by means of William Friedkin (whose French Connection was inspired by Costa-Gavras' Z, a film I have to see and, probably Battle of Algiers, which I also have to see) and was a huge element of the visual style of the 1970s along with zoom lenses (the best reference to them is Spielberg's own Munich). For Spielberg, while it was a throwback to the original battlefield documentaries/reportages of World War II, it was also an extension of Schindler's List, where indeed it was a documentary-style choice.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  10. I'm glad that Dogme 95 thing didn't catch on more than it did. The whole no-scores thing alone would have been a major bummer. wink
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 22nd 2016
    Some of my favourite films have no music at all.
    I am extremely serious.
  11. In fact I'd like to hear less music in modern film in general. There is too much wall-to-wall scoring and mickey mousing going on in today's films imo. Both in Hollywood and Europe. Some of my favourite films have relatively little music, such as Leone's westerns. Less music but applied to great effect.
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
  12. That's true. Films are overscored today. Even if we look at a classic like First Blood, can you imagine an unscored car chase today? (yes, you can, if you saw Jack Reacher, but anyway).

    Music doesn't have the semantic impact it could anymore.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  13. I'm all for careful spotting but, keeping in mind my bias as a film score fan, I simply don't like the thought of films that are unscored entirely. I mean, it worked for The Birds, but I'm sure if that film had a classic Herrmann score nobody would even think of taking the score away from it (and who knows if it would have worked better or worse?).

    Ghost Protocol had an unscored car chase as well, in Morocco. Is that a Christopher McQuarrie trademark or something? tongue
  14. Rogue Nation, that is?

    McQuarrie is just pretty old-school in his approach. Jack Reacher largely plays as a 1970s conspiracy thriller, doesn't it? smile

    One wishes that that approach also was used in Winter Soldier (though the first act was quite sparsely scored for today's standards) as well. And if you even watch films from the 1980s, the old approach also works. Hoosiers has very little score until reaching about the midpoint. Then Goldsmith carefully uses more music and, of course, ends up with a completely scored finale. I think that's quite the best approach to the issue - use quite little in the beginning, especialyl be VERY careful with big dialogue scenes (even these that are very relevant to the characterization) and unleash everything at the end (same thing happened, though not exactly as planned by Williams, in Black Sunday).

    An entirely unscored film can work, depending on the film itself. As long as there is something in the end credits, really. If they're long, I'd leave immediately.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  15. PawelStroinski wrote
    Rogue Nation, that is?

    Yep. I confuse those two incessantly. rolleyes