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      CommentAuthorDreamTheater
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2016 edited
    It's unbelievable it's almost a YEAR ( shocked shame ) that we've lost this great composer. sad

    I've been enjoying a lot of his work since then and I've always found it interesting how James Horner was able to write these long cues that tell a little story in themselves. The way he structured them, combined with his thematic sensibilities are what IMO make them epic, and a huge part of my love for its score. I'm a big fan of his action music, so needless to say there's quite a few of them.

    One important note: an epic cue needs to be at least 8 minutes long.

    1. Star Trek III - Stealing the Enterprise
    Ever since I heard The Search for Spock, first in the film, then on the GNP Crescendo album, this cue has been an all-time favorite. For a long time I was convinced nothing could top it, and now sadly nothing ever will. It's his most spectacular action cue, the fanfares in the middle providing me with the kind of joy that made him my number one composer of movies. It's the one cue I would take with me to a desert island, if this was my only choice. And until I die it will likely remain the most loved action cue of all. Yes even more than 'Desert Chase' or 'The Battle of Hoth'.

    2. Legends of the Fall - Alfred, Tristan, The Colonel, The Legend
    One of his most powerful ending cues, the emotions that he was building up to are pooring out when the final standoff begins and the colonel and his two remaining sons find redemption and everything turns out for the best, despite all the tragedies the family has endured. It's the essense of film music IMO, grand, sweeping, getting under my skin and giving me goosebumps at regular intervals.

    3. Clear and Present Danger - Ambush
    Maybe the best action cue he has ever done purely seen as an exercise in building up steady momentum, rising excitement and explosive release at the end. It's fantastic. Too bad nothing else in the score comes close to the awesome onslaught of rhythm that this cue provides. It's such a cue that's immediately noticed in the film, and never again forgotten. At least by me.

    4. Krull - The Death of the Beast and the Destruction of the Black Forest
    Oh yeah... to write something so amazing so early in his career. I think Krull is brilliant from the first minute to the last (all 90 minutes). And to end the adventure with this mammoth finale is something I can never tire of. When I'm feeling down, I only have to play this cue, as loud as possible and I'm feeling all peachy again. Even more when it's followed by the Epilogue immediatly after. It's just a shame that Horner hasn't had the chance to write a trilogy, because I consider this to be his take on the very first Star Wars score.

    5. The Four Feathers - The Mahdi
    A score I wasn't too impressed with at first, but has grown much in my appreciation thanks to this standout track, terrific in its buildup and release of explosive music in its latter half. Truly excellent progression of Hornerisms cleverly disguised to make it sound really original. It really deserves such a high rank, because it essentially made me completely change my opinion of The Four Feathers, into something I now really love.

    6. The Mask of Zorro - "Leave No Witnesses..."
    This is the most kind of fun I can have at the movies, from a musical standpoint. The Mask of Zorro has always been my preferred of the two he did, if only for this super-exciting finale. 13 minutes of delight and constantly shifting rhythm and action to build to a great climax. And Horner absolutely nailed the lush spanish vibe, like he was born with it.

    7. Titanic - Death of Titanic
    The big action finale of the Titanic's demise. This is an absolutely riveting cue. Especially the novel way Horner did for putting its horrible sinking moments into musical terms, those last 90 seconds are just incredible. But how it all builds to those last moments is once again Horner of the top of his game. Brilliant film, brilliant score, brilliant album.

    8. Apollo 13 - “All Systems Go” – The Launch
    A big mighty building to a huge triumphant moment when the rocket launches and unleashes all the emotion that comes with such a moment. The scene is greatly aided by the music for being suspense and action for its first half, then becoming powerful and moving when the guys at NASA are witnesses to the wondrous moments happening to the three-man crew.

    9. Willow - Elora Danan
    The magic and wonder is present throughout the entire score, but the way he opens it, with this most magical beginning of all is too sublime to ignore. It effectively transports me into this magical world from its opening choral motif, evolving into something sinister later on, while remaining immensely beautiful at the same time. Horner could shift between these various states without breaking a sweat in the 80s. For Willow he pulled out all the stops.

    10. Aliens - Futile Escape
    Aliens is the one that started it all for me (why I turned into a member of this community) and this cue is one of the showstoppers. Awesome, brutal and completely satisfying from the moment it explodes after three minutes of tension building, this one along with 'Bishop's Countdown' is what turned me into a lifelong Horner fan.


    My honorable mentions:

    Braveheart - "Freedom / The Execution / Bannockburn + End Credits"
    Casper - Descent to Lazarus
    Courage Under Fire - Al Bathra / Main Title
    Deep Impact - Our Best Hope...
    Deep Impact - Drawing Straws
    Deep Impact - Goodbye and Godspeed
    Field of Dreams - The Place Where Dreams Come True
    For Greater Glory - Cristeros
    For Greater Glory - Just Another Chapter of History (Closing Credits)
    The Four Feathers - A Coward No Longer
    The Land Before Time - Sharptooth and the Earthquake
    The Land Before Time - The Rescue / Discovery of the Great Valley
    The Legend of Zorro - The Train
    The Legend of Zorro - My Family Is My Life...
    Legends of the Fall - Samuel's Death
    Mighty Joe Young - Dedication and Windsong
    The Perfect Storm - Almost every cue ! smile
    The Spitfire Grill - Care of the Spitfire Grill
    Star Trek II - Battle in the Mutara Nebula
    Willow - Bavmorda's Spell Is Cast
    Willow - Willow the Sorcerer
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
  1. It's unbelievable it's almost a YEAR that we've lost this great composer
    waaaaaahhhhhhhh!!! Where's my nut? arrrghhhhhhh
  2. It's pretty hard for me to narrow the field to just 10 such cues. Horner was such a talent. He could write long epic cues like almost no one else. I am going to cheat a little. You said the cues have to be at least 8:00 min. long, but since that's kind of an arbitrary length, I'm going to change it to at 7:22 long so that I can include . . .

    1. "'Freedom'/The Execution/Bannockburn" from BRAVEHEART. This, in my opinion, is the most epic thing Horner ever composed, and since it nearly met your 8:00 min. requirement, I'm counting it smile I love this cue so much, the journey it takes you on - it's just so excellent. That moment when two of the themes are played simultaneously (the one by the full orchestra and the other by the pipes) is probably my favorite film music moment of all time. I can't say enough about my love for this cue.

    2. "The Place Where Dreams Come True" from FIELD OF DREAMS. I almost couldn't play this after Horner died, it brought up so many emotions. This is just a stunning composition. I love the slow build up and that big moment when you hear that main theme unleashed in its most sweeping variation on the album. That theme isn't even given what I would call a "sweeping" performance until this cue. Kudos to Horner for having such a dynamite theme and not fully revealing it's greatness until the film's emotional zenith. It's an emotional sucker punch that makes me tear up every time I watch that last scene.

    3. "Preparations for Battle" from GLORY. I'm cheating again, but if I will use a 7:22 min. cue then I can use this one, too, since it's a little longer than that. My feelings for this cue are wrapped up in the scene it accompanies in the film. The idea that this company of soldiers is about to charge a fort at the head of the army and sustain massive casualties is just gripping, the wistfulness of Colonel Shaw as he puts on his uniform and then when he lets his horse go and joins his men on foot, the multiple sweeping statements of the main theme (each more epic than the last), and the final moments of clanging bells and snare drums - it all adds up to movie magic as far as I'm concerned. It's an incredibly moving piece for me.

    4. "Alfred/Tristan/The Colonel/The Legend" from LEGENDS OF THE FALL. In a score that's full of epic sweep, this cue still stands out from the rest as the epic-sweepiest. The quieter parts at the end of the piece don't hurt it at all, in my opinion, but act as a wonderful denouement to the album. This whole cue is just the perfect finale to one of the greatest scores ever composed.

    5. "All is Lost" from THE NEW WORLD. This whole cue is fantastic, but the build up that starts at about 3:40 and goes and goes and just gets more glorious until the theme sweeps out in all it's glory around 5:19 makes for just an amazing listening experience. I don't feel like this cue gets the credit it deserves. It's stunning.

    6. "All Systems Go - The Launch" from APOLLO 13. I remember watching this film for the first time and being totally amazed at how great the music was during the launch. It was actually one of the formative moments of my love of film music. Every time I re-watch that scene, I'm filled with the same sense of wonder. It is one of the best marriages of film and score I'm aware of. And can you get any more noble than those horns at the beginning?

    7. "Care of the Spitfire Grill" from THE SPITFIRE GRILL. Here's another case where Horner has a wonderful theme that he doesn't allow to soar until the climax of the film. In this case, it's a theme that doesn't even appear until halfway through the score, and then only briefly and in light-hearted variations. It's not until this finale that he really opens it up. It's not the most majestic theme he composed, but the emotional payoff is substantial. There's so much to be said for music that takes you on a journey. It seems like so many themes are presented the same way throughout a score, and lately it seems like those themes are often presented in the most epic way possible every time they appear, even from the beginning of the film. This score is dynamic, and as a result, you feel and experience things, all culminating in this gorgeous cue.

    8. "Return to the Wild" from WOLF TOTEM. I'm so grateful that Horner could give us this wonderful score before we lost him. This cue is one of the greatest things he ever composed. When that theme comes out around 4:30 and just builds and builds - oh man. It's heavenly. But its the presentation of the theme at about the 7:30 mark that is the emotional sucker-punch for me. I already really liked this cue, but when that moment hits (as short as it is) it elevated it for me into the upper echelons of Horner's most magnificent output.

    9. "Epilogue/End Title" (with Spock dialogue!) from STAR TREK II: THE WRATH OF KHAN. This piece, for me, is the best of Horner's compositions for his Star Trek films. I love the flow of it, I love Spock's voice-over, I love presentations of the themes. I admit that this is probably a better composition and more "classic" or vintage Horner than some of the pieces I've ranked above it. Those only beat this one out because of the emotional connection I had with them.

    10. "Airport Goodbye" from THE PELICAN BRIEF. And speaking of emotional connection, this is another of those cues that had a serious emotional effect upon me while watching the film. What was happening in the film wasn't even that moving, really, but the MUSIC was so glorious I just had to close my eyes and let it wash over me. Immediately after I saw the scene I went to the piano and figure out how to play the melody. And you've got two great themes in this piece. There's Darby's theme in the first half (which is the one I was immediately impressed by), but I also really like the theme in the second half of the cue, which has some nobility to it.

    Runners up:

    "A Kingdom of Oil" from BLACK GOLD
    "The Train" from LEGEND OF ZORRO
    "Dedication and Windsong" from MIGHTY JOE YOUNG
    "Coming Home from the Sea" from THE PERFECT STORM
    "Cristeros" from FOR GREATER GLORY
    "Re-Entry & Splashdown" from APOLLO 13
    "My Family is My Life from THE LEGEND OF ZORRO
    "Plaza of Execution" from THE MASK OF ZORRO
    "Part 7" from IRIS
  3. Post of the day! beer

    but "The Train" is too low
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2016
    Indeed. Yet another topic about lists elevated with descriptions and justifications. The OP could learn a thing or two.
  4. Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Post of the day! beer

    but "The Train" is too low


    Thanks!

    And I had the same thought as you when I saw Gilles put "The Train" in his list of runners up: surely that belongs in the top ten. But then I made a list of all of my favorites and gave them a listen and to my surprise, I didn't have room for it in my top 10! Post your own favorites Edmund. Then you can put it where it belongs smile
  5. Thomas Glorieux wrote
    It's unbelievable it's almost a YEAR that we've lost this great composer


    Thanks dude.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
  6. Steven wrote
    Indeed. Yet another topic about lists elevated with descriptions and justifications. The OP could learn a thing or two.


    Sure, because you know best huh? I don't see the harm in it. rolleyes


    @christopher: I'll have to make time to read your list, but that's awesome... And about The Train, Mask easily beats Legend, that finale cue of Mask is way more fun for me personally.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
  7. They're both great, but I find "The Train" a bit more consistently-flowing than "Leave No Witnesses", and I adore how it gets all John Williamsy towards the end.
  8. christopher wrote
    Post your own favorites Edmund. Then you can put it where it belongs smile

    I might, but I fear my knowledge of Horner is insufficient to do the task justice!
  9. Edmund Meinerts wrote
    They're both great, but I find "The Train" a bit more consistently-flowing than "Leave No Witnesses", and I adore how it gets all John Williamsy towards the end.


    It's the opposite for me.

    Isn't that strange?

    You like something more than I.

    And vice versa.

    Is a weird little thing called taste.

    Has been around since mankind grew a brain.

    beer
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
  10. For the record, I would definitely have added Braveheart, but it just fell short... Or I should've put Freedom + End Credits together, seeing as it's just meant to be one big cue, like in the film.

    Oh man, now I should revise my top 10, but I won't. I'll put it in the other list.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorchristopher
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2016 edited
    Yeah, I cheated on that one. I just love it too much not to include it.

    Btw, this is a fun thread. I had a great time listening to all of my favorite long Horner cues again. Thanks for starting it!
  11. Back in the day, 9 out of 10 times when the man included one or more of his long cues and I had yet to buy the score, my interest in obtaining it skyrocketed, and only rarely I've been disappointed by one of his epics. He had a knack for writing them, and sort of putting all the emotion, or excitement that he built up into them, in this totally shameless way. He wanted the music to be heard and how he fitted them in these long sequences was a real artistic endeavor. Not too many composers nowadays can pull that off effectively.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
  12. Agreed. And before we turn this into another debate about film music today vs. yesteryear, I don't believe many (if any) composers from the 80s or 90s could do that as well as Horner could.
  13. That's also true. As we all know, the man wrote his soul and if he felt in his heart that a 15 minute cue couldn't be cut up, and had to appear in the film as is, who are we to argue with that. It helped that he worked on films and with directors that were not against that approach either. Next to the danger motif it became sort of his trademark to make sequences stand out with these long and emotionally resonating cues, or just all out action / excitement up the wazoo. He was and still is my number one composer. This thread is my way of showing respect. smile
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
  14. Ok, Christopher's lengthy post inspired me to do the same. It was fun putting it all into words.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
  15. Cool! Thanks for doing that, Gilles. Although I think you're bending the length cutoff a wee much with "Futile Escape", no? wink
  16. Haha, without the brooding suspense it amounts to 5.26 or something. cheesy

    But, and this is a huge but: Those 3 minutes are essential. He INTENDED it that way and I NEED it that way.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
  17. DreamTheater wrote
    Ok, Christopher's lengthy post inspired me to do the same. It was fun putting it all into words.


    Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You and I appreciate different sides of Horner, generally. You seem to prefer 80s Horner and his more action-centered pieces. I lean toward his 90s output and less action-y material. That's seems to be true even from our first exposures to his music - ALIENS was the one that "started it all" for you and BRAVEHEART was that score for me. smile What year was it (approximately) when you discovered James Horner?
  18. Yes, I've been in love with his output since the awesomeness of Aliens was recorded into my brain (around 1991 when I first saw the film I think). It has always remained my most-watched and fave film too. smile

    Oh and believe me that his softer side is highly appreciated by me as well. He continued to be in top form all the way throughout the 90s.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
  19. I discovered Horner in 1995. He was in full scale 90s mode by then. All the first scores I got from him were from that era (other than GLORY, but 1989 is pretty close, right?). Glad to hear you like the softer stuff, too. I'm afraid I've never learned to like action music too much, from Horner or anyone else. There's some that I like, but it's got to be pretty special for me to like it.
  20. To be completely honest, much of the action music he wrote after 2005 didn't have that energy, or relentless drive that his 80s or 90s output had. A good example of this is the 'War' cue from Avatar. Granted, it's a good cue overall in one of his better scores of the 00s, but compared to the long drawn out battle cues he has done in the past it's pretty repetitive and is definitely lacking in power and energy. Maybe it's an orchestration thing or has to do with how the cue is mixed, I'm not very knowledgeable about those things.

    I happen to adore the time when Greig McRitchie was his orchestrator. The action music from Willow or Honey I Shrunk the Kids for instance sounds superb, full of energy and creativity. I'm a sucker for that sound, which I don't hear anymore in today's music.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
  21. I do really love the "War" cue from Avatar in how it combines Horner's mannerisms with modern action music tropes (the percussion, chanting choir, some ostinatos here and there, and the bit about 7 minutes in has always reminded me a bit of Hans Zimmer) and you can even hear some of Nicholas Dodd's orchestrations shine through in the slurring brass writing at e.g. 5:27. That makes it kind of a fascinating combination of elements for me. But it is very much removed from his vivacious action voice of the 80s, so I can see where you might have some hangups. Then again, that 80s style makes a glorious cameo in the unreleased "Quaritch Down"!
  22. Nah, not that glorious to my ears. Very watered down in fact. But hey, if you love it Edmund, that's what matters...
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
  23. I don't know how you can call any nine-minute action sequence with a giant choir and big brass themes all over the place "watered down", but oh well. dizzy

    And there's nothing watered down about "Quaritch Down"!
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2016
    I'll have to think a bit about this. My head is in a completely different place right now. So much to choose from.
    I am extremely serious.