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  1. I've spent the last few days really getting into Goransson's BLACK PANTHER. I started with Erik's playlist, which made it more manageable. Then I read Jon Broxton's review and played through all the parts of the cues he highlighted to make sure I knew the thematic content. I highly recommend this to anyone. His review is just excellent. After playing through it all for the last couple days I've really come to appreciate how brilliant it is. I thought I'd try putting together a shorter playlist as well, but my first attempt was still 70 minutes long! I made some hard cuts and got it down to 50 minutes. If any of you are more incline to try a 50 minute playlist for it, give this one a listen:

    Royal Talon Fighter
    Wakanda
    Waterfall Fight
    Ancestral Plane
    Phambili
    Killmonger vs. T'Challa
    Burn it All
    The Great Mound Battle
    Glory to Bast
    The Jabari Pt II
    A King's Sunset
    Spaceship Bugatti
    United Nations/End Titles

    Cutting it down this much means you'll miss the introduction and repetition of some of the major themes/motifs/sonic palettes, but I think they're still all covered at some point in this playlist.
  2. My Star Trek playlist, which I have posted here before, but what the heck?

    1. Into the Final Frontier - Narrated by Leonard Nemoy
    2. Star Trek TOS Main Theme (Courage)
    3. TMP The Enterprise (Goldsmith)
    4. TMP Elia's Theme
    5. TWOK Main Title (Horner)
    6. TWOK Genesis Countdown
    7. TSFS Klingons
    8. TSFS Stealing the Enterprise
    9. TSFS The Katra Ritual
    10. TFF Life Is a Dream (Goldsmith)
    11. TUC Sign Off (Eidelman)
    12 TUC End Credits Suite
    13 TNG Best of Both Worlds: Captain Borg (Ron Jones)
    14 Generations End Titles / Overture (Dennis McCarthy)
    15 Deep Space Nine Main Theme
    16 FC Flight of the Phoenix (Joel Goldsmith)
    17 Voyager Main Theme (Goldsmith)
    18 Insurrection: Growing Up
    19 STB Night on the Yorktown (Giacchino)
    20 ST End Credits

    smile Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2018
    christopher wrote
    I've spent the last few days really getting into Goransson's BLACK PANTHER. I started with Erik's playlist, which made it more manageable. Then I read Jon Broxton's review and played through all the parts of the cues he highlighted to make sure I knew the thematic content. I highly recommend this to anyone. His review is just excellent. After playing through it all for the last couple days I've really come to appreciate how brilliant it is. I thought I'd try putting together a shorter playlist as well, but my first attempt was still 70 minutes long! I made some hard cuts and got it down to 50 minutes. If any of you are more incline to try a 50 minute playlist for it, give this one a listen:

    Royal Talon Fighter
    Wakanda
    Waterfall Fight
    Ancestral Plane
    Phambili
    Killmonger vs. T'Challa
    Burn it All
    The Great Mound Battle
    Glory to Bast
    The Jabari Pt II
    A King's Sunset
    Spaceship Bugatti
    United Nations/End Titles

    Cutting it down this much means you'll miss the introduction and repetition of some of the major themes/motifs/sonic palettes, but I think they're still all covered at some point in this playlist.


    thanks christopher, I'll be using your playlist.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2018
    in my opinion Black Panther is up with Horner's Amazing Spiderman and Beltrami's Fantastic Four as one of the best modern superhero scores.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
    • CommentAuthorjb1234
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2018
    Yeah, dramatically condensing the score down has finally made me realize what other people see in it.
  3. I've loved every minute of it from Day One.
  4. Even e.g. the last minute of "Warrior Falls"? That should have been trimmed for sure. Among other things.
  5. In general the album really needed some tightening...and I'm not (only) referring to the overall length. It seems to me like quite a few tracks fade out and back in again...almost like they're shorter cues that have been unlovingly slapped together. It's especially noticeable in "Glory to Bast" towards the end of the score...a big action cue like that really shouldn't slam to a halt only to start again ten seconds later, it absolutely kills the momentum. A bit of judicious editing to crossfade moments like that has really helped get the most out of those cues, but it should have been done by a professional, not me in Audacity. slant

    Also, the main theme is really reminding me of a song, but I can't put my finger on which. I think it's some sort of cheesy 80s song.

    Edit: Figured it out! It's a-ha's Take On Me! I kept expecting Göransson's African percussion to do that 8-beat-to-16-beat switch thing. biggrin
  6. Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Even e.g. the last minute of "Warrior Falls"? That should have been trimmed for sure. Among other things.

    I could name you several minutes you could cut from Aliens for the same reason. Point is, I wouldn't, on neither of these scores. Sometimes, suspenseful silence with occasional low profile textures is part of a good score.

    I'm truly amazed how many of you suddenly follow Thor's philosophy. The facts are still the same: You can always trim down a long score to get the exact version you want (which will be slightly different for each listener). The trimming process will even help you to go deeper into the score and cherish its structure, and finding a new one that suits your own taste better will also create a more personal bond between yourself and the score. You rob yourself of that experience if you let another person decide for you what should and what shouldn't be included in a score album. Yes, finding a good edit is an artform in itself, and I admire well edited scores, but I remember the vinyl times when all we got was a short representation of what was available, always missing bits you'd have loved to get with the release. These days, you get a lot more material, and can finally enjoy it all. But as usual with certain crowds, getting more is seen as something negative, somehow. That you don't always have the time to trim a score down is not the score's fault. I appreciate the opportunity to do so.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2018
    A badly produced 90-minute score album can be an awful first impression no matter how good the score is and that can taint future listening experiences.

    On top of that, I personally don't have the time to listen to these 90-minute albums anymore. I just don't. I receive dozens upon dozens of albums a month now and I'd rather reach for a good 40-50 minute presentation then spend over an hour and a half trying to evaluate a score. On top of that, I try to listen to each score at least 3 times before giving my final verdict. With Black Panther, I now have to dedicate four and a half hours to just one score. On top of that, I know have to try and filter that down to a reasonable listening experience as well?
    Yeah... I'm not interested in that especially when I have other albums to review.

    But hey, if you have the time to do all of the above and love doing it more power to you. But as I get older and as my free time to listen to soundtracks gets shorter and shorter every year, I find myself listening to shorter and shorter presentations. For instance, no matter how AMAZING the new La La Land Records release of E.T. is, I prefer to listen to the original album presentation, which is 40 minutes of pure gold!

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2018 edited
    Ralph Kruhm wrote
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    Even e.g. the last minute of "Warrior Falls"? That should have been trimmed for sure. Among other things.

    I could name you several minutes you could cut from Aliens for the same reason. Point is, I wouldn't, on neither of these scores. Sometimes, suspenseful silence with occasional low profile textures is part of a good score.

    I'm truly amazed how many of you suddenly follow Thor's philosophy. The facts are still the same: You can always trim down a long score to get the exact version you want (which will be slightly different for each listener). The trimming process will even help you to go deeper into the score and cherish its structure, and finding a new one that suits your own taste better will also create a more personal bond between yourself and the score. You rob yourself of that experience if you let another person decide for you what should and what shouldn't be included in a score album. Yes, finding a good edit is an artform in itself, and I admire well edited scores, but I remember the vinyl times when all we got was a short representation of what was available, always missing bits you'd have loved to get with the release. These days, you get a lot more material, and can finally enjoy it all. But as usual with certain crowds, getting more is seen as something negative, somehow. That you don't always have the time to trim a score down is not the score's fault. I appreciate the opportunity to do so.


    But it's not a matter of whether it's the score's fault; if you don't have the time or inclination to trim a long album down, let alone edit individual tracks, then a barage of lengthy releases does diminish the experience. What is an opportunity to you is a nuisance for most. I think we can assume that many of us follow Thor's "philosophy" in principle -- we want a well-produced album that highlights the best bits of the score and, in addition to Thor's philosophy, keeps some sort of narrative flow. (Thor just seems to stick to his guns like a republican, which is why he comes off as a little nutty.)

    It is a bit of an art, but it isn't impossible. Just time consuming. In other words, it shouldn't be beyond most professional album producers to come up with a decent album that should satisfy most people. I suppose the solution is simple: release a shortened album along with a lengthier version?
  7. Ralph, I don't, nor will I ever, subscribe to Thor's philosophy. tongue

    In fact I heartily agree with almost everything you said. I actually enjoy the process of boiling a mammoth C&C presentation down to the core playlist version that then becomes what I return to most of the time. It feels like the best way to really get to know and evaluate a score. And just because that last minute of "Warrior Falls" didn't make the cut for me doesn't mean I wish it hadn't been released, quite the opposite, I'm glad it was and that I was able to make that decision. Perhaps I misspoke then when I said "should have been cut". "Should be cut" would be more accurate, at least from my perspective.

    However, I also sympathize with those who don't have the time or inclination to edit albums themselves. I enjoy doing that, but it's also rather time consuming and ultimately means I never listen to as much music as I would like. For the average layperson/consumer, the Black Panther release is not ideal. It listens like a complete score. I appreciate that for the purposes of immersing myself in the score. But a lot of people don't want to take the time to immerse or analyze, they just want to listen and be entertained.

    Too much music is definitely better than too little. But in the end I'll fall back on what I always say: why not both? Why not a well-produced album, and a deluxe edition for the completists? For example on a few of Elfman's recent scores he has followed up the main album program with a bunch of bonus cues. That's great (the only quibble is that it's then out of chronological order, but you can fairly easily look that up online). I wish we saw more of that.
  8. For me these mammoth releases are a big problem and usually stop me from buying the album. I remember enjoying the score to ‘IT’ when I saw the film, went to order the album and immediately changed my mind when I saw the length. I really enjoyed the ‘Black Panther’ score in context but I almost didn’t buy it when I saw the length. Surprisingly I enjoy the whole album and have already listened to it three times this week but long term I know I’ll return to it a lot less. It feels like the art of album production has been lost now that people can just release the whole thing with no time constraint digitally. Yes some scores stand up to the complete treatment but for most modern scores it stops me from enjoying them at all.
    •  
      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2018 edited
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    For example on a few of Elfman's recent scores he has followed up the main album program with a bunch of bonus cues. That's great (the only quibble is that it's then out of chronological order, but you can fairly easily look that up online). I wish we saw more of that.


    Yes, this, to me, is the most ideal release that could be followed by any record label. I can imagine releasing two versions (regular and DeLuxe) of a score might be costlier than one, which might prevent them from doing so, but if you present a produced listening experience and follow it with additional tracks for completists (like Justice League) it's for me immediately clear what the shortened and most ideal first listening experience is, and completists can then invest their time to put all of it in a playlist for complete listening pleasure.

    As is with albums like IT and Black Panther, I think the problem is that those who want a 'regular' duration are the ones who don't have enough time on their hands, and now they are the ones who need to invest their time to compile a shortened version, while those that do have the time to enjoy their scores in complete form and analyse it, don't have to do anything and can just hit play. That logic seems off.
  9. I remember one of the Game of Thrones CDs provided you with a download code for additional cues. That seems to be a good solution.

    Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeFeb 25th 2018 edited
    I think we can assume that many of us follow Thor's "philosophy" in principle -- we want a well-produced album that highlights the best bits of the score and, in addition to Thor's philosophy, keeps some sort of narrative flow. (Thor just seems to stick to his guns like a republican, which is why he comes off as a little nutty.)


    I'm rather offended by this analogy, as 'Republican' is the furthest away from my political ideology as humanly possible. All I require is that the composer or producer puts some thought into reconceptulazing the score for maximum listening pleasure.

    Incidentally, I've not checked out BLACK PANTHER yet. It's not a type of film I'm particularly interested in, nor the score. I probably will at some point, but with extremely low expectations (both the music and the presentation sounds like something directly adverse to my taste at the present time).
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorjb1234
    • CommentTimeFeb 25th 2018
    I agree that the recent Elfman approach is the way to go.

    Star Trek: Nemesis - Jerry Goldsmith

    Far, far better than I remember it, even in complete form. The film didn't deserve this music but I'm glad Goldsmith was his usual professional self.
  10. Captain Future wrote
    I remember one of the Game of Thrones CDs provided you with a download code for additional cues. That seems to be a good solution.

    Yup, another great example.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeFeb 25th 2018
    Thor wrote
    I think we can assume that many of us follow Thor's "philosophy" in principle -- we want a well-produced album that highlights the best bits of the score and, in addition to Thor's philosophy, keeps some sort of narrative flow. (Thor just seems to stick to his guns like a republican, which is why he comes off as a little nutty.)


    I'm rather offended by this analogy, as 'Republican' is the furthest away from my political ideology as humanly possible.


    At least you can still take a joke though...
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeFeb 25th 2018
    Rather offensive tone of a joke, I would say.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeFeb 25th 2018
    Offense is taken, not given wink
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2018
    NP: BLACK PANTHER (Ludwig Göransson)

    Had to hear what all the fuss was about. Well, it's pretty darn 'meh' so far. Somewhat as expected.
    I am extremely serious.
  11. Yeah, I'm not sure that's gonna be a score for you, Thor. Definitely not an album for you.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2018
    Some of the calmer bits were alright. And I like bits and pieces of the percussive elements. But I don't think I'll be able to make a sustainable playlist out of this.
    I am extremely serious.
  12. Have you tried the Christopher list? I'm listening either to the whole shebang or to, actually, a Spotify playlist Christopher made out of Erik's "album".
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2018
    No. I presume the existing playlists are heavier on the action material?
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2018 edited
    Thor wrote
    No. I presume the existing playlists are heavier on the action material?


    It's an action-adventure score... of course there's going to be a lot of action-adventure material. You can't best represent (or review) a score like this without a heavy dose of action music. Yeesh. rolleyes

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  13. Didn't you hear? Action music should be abolished!
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2018
    Especially in an action-adventure comic book film!

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  14. Yeah. You know what the big fight between Killmonger and Black Panther needed? Low-key drones and textures. That would have really ramped up the excitement! What were they thinking with all those drums and themes and brass and stuff?