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  1. Aidabaida wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Ready Player One is phenomenal!

    -Erik-


    Ok I get that opinions differ and that everything is subjective.... but really? has the bar fallen so low that the thirty thousandth iteration of stop start, minor third chopping, brass puttering, drum thumping, unceasingly dissonant and loud “action music” is considered phenomenal?


    Yes, really. And what do you mean to say? That everything is subjective but that your opinion really isn't?
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2018 edited
    Aidabaida wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Ready Player One is phenomenal!

    -Erik-


    Ok I get that opinions differ and that everything is subjective.... but really? has the bar fallen so low that the thirty thousandth iteration of stop start, minor third chopping, brass puttering, drum thumping, unceasingly dissonant and loud “action music” is considered phenomenal?


    I feel for you if that’s all you are paying attention to in the score.

    There is so much more going on in this score. Beautiful melodies, heroic fanfares, dynamic and exciting action, excellent usage of electronics, heart pounding suspense, wonderful call backs not only to Silvestri’s own scores and style but wonderful references to others. The Godzilla reference mixed with Silvestri’s distinctive style is flawless and masterful. Its a great score, IMO.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  2. Yes. One of the great qualities of this score is how elegantly Silvestri integrates referenced music into his own framework without turning it into a revue.
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2018
    yeah
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2018
    Aidabaida wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Ready Player One is phenomenal!

    -Erik-


    Ok I get that opinions differ and that everything is subjective.... but really? has the bar fallen so low that the thirty thousandth iteration of stop start, minor third chopping, brass puttering, drum thumping, unceasingly dissonant and loud “action music” is considered phenomenal?


    The bar’s fallen so low that even Ramin Djawadi doesn’t seem that bad, so when Alan Silvestri writes a big, bright thematic scifi score you can bet your bottom dollar that people like me and Erik are going to be all over it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2018
    Southall wrote
    Aidabaida wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Ready Player One is phenomenal!

    -Erik-


    Ok I get that opinions differ and that everything is subjective.... but really? has the bar fallen so low that the thirty thousandth iteration of stop start, minor third chopping, brass puttering, drum thumping, unceasingly dissonant and loud “action music” is considered phenomenal?


    The bar’s fallen so low that even Ramin Djawadi doesn’t seem that bad, so when Alan Silvestri writes a big, bright thematic scifi score you can bet your bottom dollar that people like me and Erik are going to be all over it.


    Fair enough, I guess. It’s listenable. There is indeed what appears to be a melodic theme using a proper amount of major and minor chords. Some cues are louder than others, some feature melodies from much better scores. It’s perfectly competent and inoffensive. And sure if you find the millionth dissonant string run over electronic drums to be “heart pounding”, then who am I to tell you that’s wrong? But can’t we all agree that it’s all been done better elsewhere? I don’t know, I’m probably taking this all far too seriously
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2018
    Opinions, opinions... mine is that of course it’s been done better before but certainly not in 2018 it hasn’t. A joy to have a score like this in this film.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2018
    Aidabaida wrote
    Fair enough, I guess. It’s listenable. There is indeed what appears to be a melodic theme using a proper amount of major and minor chords.


    Proper? According to who? Are there rules when it comes down to writing a theme?

    Aidabaida wrote
    Some cues are louder than others, some feature melodies from much better scores.


    Yup... that's how dynamics work.

    Aidabaida wrote
    It’s perfectly competent and inoffensive. And sure if you find the millionth dissonant string run over electronic drums to be “heart pounding”, then who am I to tell you that’s wrong?


    I'm not wrong. And those cues work splendidly in the film. They aren't just functional cues. They play a significant part of the film's narrative and highten the drama in those particular scenes! That's great film music!

    Aidabaida wrote
    But can’t we all agree that it’s all been done better elsewhere? I don’t know, I’m probably taking this all far too seriously


    Yes, of course, it's been done better before... Back To The Future... but no composer is ever going to live up to their earlier masterpieces.... not even John Williams.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2018
    Southall wrote
    Opinions, opinions... mine is that of course it’s been done better before but certainly not in 2018 it hasn’t. A joy to have a score like this in this film.


    That’s fair enough.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
    •  
      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2018
    Erik Woods wrote

    Proper? According to who? Are there rules when it comes down to writing a theme?


    Well that’s my point. There shouldn’t be rules for writing a theme. But stereotypes have of course developed, and that’s what frustrates me about Silvestri’s theme. Almost every note is derivative of a theme by Williams or Horner. You can literally name which score each section of the theme is imitating. The same people who criticize Zimmers ghostwriters for being unoriginal are praising sections of Silvestri’s score for being “right out of Jurassic Park!”
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2018
    Aidabaida wrote
    Erik Woods wrote

    Proper? According to who? Are there rules when it comes down to writing a theme?


    Well that’s my point. There shouldn’t be rules for writing a theme. But stereotypes have of course developed, and that’s what frustrates me about Silvestri’s theme. Almost every note is derivative of a theme by Williams or Horner. You can literally name which score each section of the theme is imitating.


    Ok. Literally, tell me which part of the theme is ripping off something by Williams or Horner. Hilarious that you brought up Horner, BTW, in a conversation about derivative themes!

    lol

    Also, this is a movie that is oozing with 80's nostalgia. I can forgive Silvestri for dipping into the 80's Williams/Horner well for inspiration.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2018 edited
    Erik Woods wrote

    Ok. Literally, tell me which part of the theme is ripping off something by Williams or Horner. Hilarious that you brought up Horner, BTW, in a conversation about derivative themes!

    lol

    Also, this is a movie that is oozing with 80's nostalgia. I can forgive Silvestri for dipping into the 80's Williams/Horner well for inspiration.

    -Erik-



    From just a brief perusal, looking at the main title, at 1:31, Silvestri imitates Horner's "rumbling piano", and the main theme itself is essentially a progression from The Rocketeer to Independence Day to Jurassic Park. At 2:09, the staggered timpani hits are a common Williams trademark. The Rocketeer also dominates the opening strings.

    I think the difference between this and Horner is that Horner's re-use of themes was done completely seriously, with as much passion in the re-use as there was in the original. This theme to me feels anonymous, vanilla, like something written for a parody aping without plagiarizing a different composer. Horner wasn't ashamed of his re-use, didn't try to hide it.

    If you look at something like the Back to the Future theme, Silvestri certainly drew upon a tradition of grand orchestral themes, but he wasn't directly imitating certain styles that are not his own. The intrusions of clear Horner-isms and Williams trademarks in this theme is jarring, and seems the result not of artistry but corporate cynicism calculated to appeal to a certain demographic. I guess if I'd grown up with the 80s and 90s scores, I might enjoy it more, but it seems awfully forced to me, something not composed but engineered.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2018
    Interesting thoughts. I don't necessarily agree with you on your stance on the theme being something forced.

    I'm not sure how familiar you are with Silvestri's entire catalog of film music but the theme sound 100% Silvestri to me especially if you are familiar with his warm, positive, uplifting themes from his romantic comedy and children's film scoring. Stuff like Stuart Little, Father of the Bride, Grumpy Old Men, Lilo & Stitch, Fools Rush In, Mac and Me... even Forest Gump.

    I have zero issues with rumbling pianos. BTW, you should listen to Sgt. Bilko or Siegfried and Roy. Silvestri used rumbling pianos with timpani in those scores. And the march from that score... hell, even the triumph music in Siegfried & Roy, could easily be inserted into Ready Player One!

    BTW, Williams doesn't own the patent on staggering timpani hits, which can be found in any swashbuckling cue Alan Silvestri has ever written. I'm sure you'd say that Silvestri was ripping off Williams with his fanfare from Outrageous Fortune.

    IMO, Ready Player One is one of the most ambitious, impressive, imaginative, creative score Silvestri has written in years! It's an utter delight! Spielberg really does bring out the best in his composers!

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2018
    Erik Woods wrote
    Interesting thoughts. I don't necessarily agree with you on your stance on the theme being something forced.

    I'm not sure how familiar you are with Silvestri's entire catalog of film music but the theme sound 100% Silvestri to me especially if you are familiar with his warm, positive, uplifting themes from his romantic comedy and children's film scoring. Stuff like Stuart Little, Father of the Bride, Grumpy Old Men, Lilo & Stitch, Fools Rush In, Mac and Me... even Forest Gump.

    I have zero issues with rumbling pianos. BTW, you should listen to Sgt. Bilko or Siegfried and Roy. Silvestri used rumbling pianos with timpani in those scores. And the march from that score... hell, even the triumph music in Siegfried & Roy, could easily be inserted into Ready Player One!

    BTW, Williams doesn't own the patent on staggering timpani hits, which can be found in any swashbuckling cue Alan Silvestri has ever written. I'm sure you'd say that Silvestri was ripping off Williams with his fanfare from Outrageous Fortune.

    IMO, Ready Player One is one of the most ambitious, impressive, imaginative, creative score Silvestri has written in years! It's an utter delight! Spielberg really does bring out the best in his composers!

    -Erik-



    yeah you're definitely more well versed in Silvestri's oeuvre than I am. I'm glad you like the main theme! I'd say it's definitely the best part of the score, and I'll take any melodic theme, no matter how derivative, over flailing action music. I guess that's just going to be subjective. I've never been able to enjoy the frenetic action music Silvestri utilizes... I much prefer action that does not mickey-mouse the action, and I really just don't understand how such music is enjoyable apart from the movie.

    Thanks for the comment anyway, you have a broad depth of knowledge in this subject!
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2018 edited
    I think there's a fair bit of Horner á la AVATAR in "The Oasis".

    Most of the action cues sound like classic Silvestri to my ears, but with a few nods to Williams -- like the 1941-ish-sounding motif in "Orb Meeting" and the action scherzo style with those fluttering strings in "Arty on the Inside".
    I am extremely serious.
  3. Thor wrote
    I think there's a fair bit of Horner á la AVATAR in "The Oasis".

    All I hear is Karl Jenkins!
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2018 edited
    Yes, but you could argue that Horner popularized that sound for a 'digital world' with AVATAR. Just as Zimmer did with the wailing, Arabic woman for GLADIATOR.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2018
    Listening to the short score Lacrimosa
    listen to more classical music!
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2018
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    All I hear is Karl Jenkins!


    yeah
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  4. Aidabaida wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Ready Player One is phenomenal!

    -Erik-


    Ok I get that opinions differ and that everything is subjective.... but really? has the bar fallen so low that the thirty thousandth iteration of stop start, minor third chopping, brass puttering, drum thumping, unceasingly dissonant and loud “action music” is considered phenomenal?


    Unceasingly dissonant? I don't think the score is all that dissonant. I mean, if Ready Player One is "unceasingly dissonant" (and some dissonance in an action score is just bound to appear if you want to evoke any tension), then what would you say about Elliot Goldenthal or Don Davis?
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  5. Erik Woods wrote
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    All I hear is Karl Jenkins!


    yeah


    yeah
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2018 edited
    PawelStroinski wrote

    Unceasingly dissonant? I don't think the score is all that dissonant. I mean, if Ready Player One is "unceasingly dissonant" (and some dissonance in an action score is just bound to appear if you want to evoke any tension), then what would you say about Elliot Goldenthal or Don Davis?


    I don't like listening to loud, frenetic, dissonant action music that mickey-mouses what's happening on screen. If it works in the film, that's fine, but I don't find any value in listening to frenzied strings over stabs of brass shrieks... I've steered pretty much clear of Eliot Goldenthal and Don Davis for that reason.

    One of my favorite action scores is Alexandre Desplat's "Godzilla". In that score, Desplat will utilize dissonance in search of a catharsis. In a cue like Golden Gate Bridge, he'll built an almost Ligeti like choir into monumental pronouncements of harmonic doom. I find that much more satisfying than yet another attack of ceaseless shrieking woodwinds and minor third chopping. I'd also point to the recent cue "The Escape" from Shape of Water for more terrific action by Desplat that doesn't resort to mindless chaos.

    That's why I just can't enjoy much music by Korngold as well... I find mickey-mousing the action to be anathema to enjoying a score. As one person said, it sounds like "Exploding Circus" music. And it's depressing to open up a score hailed as "the best of 2018" and find more anonymous, workmanlike, quasi-dissonant chopping identical to that of Giacchino, Jackman, Tyler, etc.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2018 edited
    No doubt Karl Jenkins pioneered that sound (later modulated by the likes of Era, Enigma and so on), but there's no way in Hell they would have used that approach for the scene unless Horner popularized it for AVATAR.

    By the way, a shame it was never used again in the film, because I love that track.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2018
    Paycheck John Powell

    A testament to Powell's expertise in blending electronics with orchestra, given how well this holds up in 2018.
  6. Aidabaida wrote
    PawelStroinski wrote

    Unceasingly dissonant? I don't think the score is all that dissonant. I mean, if Ready Player One is "unceasingly dissonant" (and some dissonance in an action score is just bound to appear if you want to evoke any tension), then what would you say about Elliot Goldenthal or Don Davis?


    I don't like listening to loud, frenetic, dissonant action music that mickey-mouses what's happening on screen. If it works in the film, that's fine, but I don't find any value in listening to frenzied strings over stabs of brass shrieks... I've steered pretty much clear of Eliot Goldenthal and Don Davis for that reason.

    One of my favorite action scores is Alexandre Desplat's "Godzilla". In that score, Desplat will utilize dissonance in search of a catharsis. In a cue like Golden Gate Bridge, he'll built an almost Ligeti like choir into monumental pronouncements of harmonic doom. I find that much more satisfying than yet another attack of ceaseless shrieking woodwinds and minor third chopping. I'd also point to the recent cue "The Escape" from Shape of Water for more terrific action by Desplat that doesn't resort to mindless chaos.

    That's why I just can't enjoy much music by Korngold as well... I find mickey-mousing the action to be anathema to enjoying a score. As one person said, it sounds like "Exploding Circus" music. And it's depressing to open up a score hailed as "the best of 2018" and find more anonymous, workmanlike, quasi-dissonant chopping identical to that of Giacchino, Jackman, Tyler, etc.


    Still, even if it was the way you described (which I disagree with), dissonance is not it defining characteristics. It utilizes dissonance, but is not dissonant that much. It's not atonal either, for sure, but it's not as dissonant as parts of, I don't know, Zimmer's Peacemaker or Gladiator's The Battle. It's fairly tame for my standards of "dissonant action", which I agree, in modern athematic scores makes the music meander even more. It's fairly melodic and harmonious.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2018 edited
    PawelStroinski wrote

    Still, even if it was the way you described (which I disagree with), dissonance is not it defining characteristics. It utilizes dissonance, but is not dissonant that much. It's not atonal either, for sure, but it's not as dissonant as parts of, I don't know, Zimmer's Peacemaker or Gladiator's The Battle. It's fairly tame for my standards of "dissonant action", which I agree, in modern athematic scores makes the music meander even more. It's fairly melodic and harmonious.


    I'm actually a big fan of Zimmer's "The Battle", primarily because, although dissonant, it tries something in the waltz quite original, at least as far as film scores go. I can tolerate dissonance for the sake of something clearly ingenious, which is to say I don't think any tools are off limits to a composer. But when music is not just unpleasant to listen to but also anonymous, almost identical to the action music of any other major Hollywood composer, I question what one could find enjoyable. I suppose, enjoyment of frenetic mickey-mouse music may be subjective, but I don't think it's a matter of opinion that it is really just doing the same thing as almost every orchestral action track of the last 20 years. One might make a compilation of the "action music" of Giacchino, Silvestri, and Tyler, and I don't think there would be any telling them apart.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
  7. Oh, oh, oh, no love for Korngold, Davis, Goldenthal and Giacchino. Our boats swim in different waters. smile

    Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    •  
      CommentAuthorLSH
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2018
    Steven wrote
    Paycheck John Powell

    A testament to Powell's expertise in blending electronics with orchestra, given how well this holds up in 2018.


    Jesus, 15 years old already. You're right though, it has aged well. And that brass writing! cool
    •  
      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2018
    Captain Future wrote
    Oh, oh, oh, no love for Korngold, Davis, Goldenthal and Giacchino. Our boats swim in different waters. smile

    Volker


    I like Giacchino's non-action writing a lot, same for Don Davis.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
  8. Aidabaida wrote
    One might make a compilation of the "action music" of Giacchino, Silvestri, and Tyler, and I don't think there would be any telling them apart.

    Any halfway seasoned film music fan ought to have no problem telling them apart.