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  1. It's actually the same as yours for me then. My third album ever and first CD was Backdraft, actually!

    I was quite successful with introducing some friends, even inspiring at least two to get The Rock smile

    Other composers came gradually: John Williams in 1999, after a problematic introduction (I'm still not a huge fan) by Titanic, the combination of Enemy at the Gates and rediscovering Mask of Zorro on cassette got me to Horner, my first heard Jerry Goldsmith score was The Edge. It took me about 4-5 years to get to know more stuff.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    • CommentAuthorJoep
    • CommentTimeApr 8th 2020
    Something similar happened to me when I first heard The Rock, which I though was thrilling, but around the same time I also fell in love with Preiser´s Trois Couleurs Rouge, which at the time was a deepened, personal experience. I still don't know why this contradictio in terminus duo made me pursue the more popular scores similar to The Rock first, only to fully embrace the kind of scores in the veins of Preisner some years later.
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      CommentAuthorRalph Kruhm
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2020 edited
    The time around The Rock somehow started my personal second age of filmmusic experience.

    I'd started in the early 80s and came to love all the classics from that age; Williams, Goldsmith, Horner, you name them, I loved them. It was a time where vinyl was my only option, so I listened to full albums mostly and can still hum many of them track by track. Every new album was an experience.

    When I started listening to CDs, something changed. The ability to easily skip tracks and reprogram made me focus on more specific stuff, but I'd still play whole albums and enjoy them.

    About the time The Rock came out, you would sample the CDs onto your PC and start to put stuff together in playlists. The iPod and then Spotify and other possibilities followed. Many people claim that Zimmer & Co killed the classic scores, but I'd say easy track availability and shuffling did. You wouldn't enjoy one album as it was, you would easily do your own lists with ever-changing experiences. No album stayed the same, everything changed. The way we listened to music changed. Constant messaging started to appear. Multitasking was somewhat required. And it got only worse.

    I really can't remember when I sat down the last time to simply put on an album and just listen to it - without ANY other interference, any cell phone check or screen running at the side, screaming for attention.

    This summer, I'll try to get back to that.

    I really, really miss that.
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      CommentAuthorAtham
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2020
    That's so true Ralph. And same story for me also.
    This Easter I plan to listen to Goldsmith's The Swarm (2020 release) in its entirety, uninterrupted.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2020
    THE ROCK is to that generation of budding film music fans what STAR WARS was to the previous generation. Love the score myself, one of my alltime favs -- although I'm in the previous generation, strictly speaking.
    I am extremely serious.
  2. For me, except the Zimmer-written bits, the score is a guilty pleasure now. I think it was a period where a series of scores got people in the genre, and yes, from the early Media Ventures vein. It's actually fascinating if you consider the cult status of Mancina who was overlooked purely because Bad Boys didn't come out (except the opener) as a score album at the time.

    An interesting statistic to be found would be what brought more fans into the fray: The Rock or Crimson Tide. It seems to be widely accepted in the critical community that Crimson Tide is the revolutionary one, but I think the real deal is the combination of Crimson Tide, Bad Boys (unreleased till recently) and The Rock. Peacemaker was already evolving something else, so the pure unabashed Media Ventures style ended with Mancina doing Twister and the Speed sequel.

    I don't know about the sales numbers, but Broken Arrow was somewhat overlooked and, paradoxically, looking from a distance, for me it's the one that aged the best alongside Crimson Tide.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  3. Ralph Kruhm wrote
    I really can't remember when I sat down the last time to simply put on an album and just listen to it - without ANY other interference, any cell phone check or screen running at the side, screaming for attention.


    Agree! I remember the good 'ol days of saving up my allowance and buying a single CD soundtrack album, putting it into my disc-man and just laying on the floor with my headphones on or outside in the grass and JUST listen and absorb. So enjoyable!
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 9th 2020 edited
    PawelStroinski wrote
    An interesting statistic to be found would be what brought more fans into the fray: The Rock or Crimson Tide. It seems to be widely accepted in the critical community that Crimson Tide is the revolutionary one.


    I tend to say that, in terms of Zimmer's "power anthem history", the seeds were sown with BLACK RAIN, reached its full fruition in CRIMSON TIDE and was then widely popularized with THE ROCK. Those three, mainly. And then there were obviously several variations after that, by Zimmer and others.

    And then the prototype of all this, before Zimmer moved to the US, was Faltermeyer's TOP GUN. I'm fairly confident we would have had no power anthems without TOP GUN. Which makes it so fitting that both of them are working on the sequel.
    I am extremely serious.
  4. I am not sure I'd actually completely agree for a few reasons. First, I don't think that Faltermeyer's Top Gun fully qualifies as the kind of power anthem, also considering the fact that Faltermeyer's sense of structure is fairly rudimentary (and, somehow, always connected to his Tony Scott collaborations) and because what seems to be most anthemic is actually the emotional theme rather than the main title motif always repeated in victory. This doesn't necessarily have to be true for Hans' anthems. While used triumphantly in the finale, the Nick and Masa theme has a rather low-key presentation in the rest of the score and isn't necessarily tied to the budding friendship between the characters, it's more for Conklin himself. Crimson Tide is the closest to the usage to the way Faltermeyer did it in Top Gun.

    And here is where it becomes complex: we have completely ignored Backdraft and Drop Zone, where the anthemic like motif appears only once in the score and film (and foreshadows a lot of things, from Broken Arrow to even Pirates) and it's a heroic action motif for a desperate rescue. Except Crimson Tide, where the main thematic material appears only in triumphant settings (and once during the fire in the galley sequence, wheree it underscores the action), that one has fairly low-key dignified themes for the characters, which aren't really anthemic (the Mozart-inspired Ramsey theme and a trumpet motif for Hunter). The Mancina scores have action themes, but the closest thing to a real anthem would be perhaps Twister and that one slightly goes into Americana territory which the power anthem is kinda designed as an alternative to (right after his Oscar Hans complained about there being too much Copland in film music). The Rock? There is an anthem but it's almost used in tragic settings, except the finale, where, however, while full of pathos, it's not exactly heroic. Hans also, on that one, wrote the low-key tragic trumpet motif for Hummel. Broken Arrow's anthem for Hale is a riff on Drop Zone and not many people remember anything else than the cool-spaghetti-western-lite theme for Travolta's Deakins

    The complexity of the whole power anthem thing is that they aren't always meant to be that powerful. As I said, Faltermeyer uses his themes with a rudimentary sense of structure, and that if the director tells him to (Tony Scott did on both Top Gun and Beverly Hills Cop II). Hans' use of thematic material is more nuanced and while he can "arrive" at an anthemic performance (Nick and Masa!), I wouldn't call that theme an anthem precisely because it always denotes the character and often with a sense of melancholy, if not outward tragedy (Charlie Loses His Head). Perhaps Peacemaker comes close too, indeed, as there is a bunch of heroic-only themes, but there's only that.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2020 edited
    I am not sure I'd actually completely agree for a few reasons. First, I don't think that Faltermeyer's Top Gun fully qualifies as the kind of power anthem, also considering the fact that Faltermeyer's sense of structure is fairly rudimentary


    That's why I said 'prototype'. It's a rather different sound than Zimmer's power anthem, but it's most definitely a form of power anthem that paved the way for a lot of stuff.

    While used triumphantly in the finale, the Nick and Masa theme has a rather low-key presentation in the rest of the score and isn't necessarily tied to the budding friendship between the characters, it's more for Conklin himself. Crimson Tide is the closest to the usage to the way Faltermeyer did it in Top Gun.


    It has less to do with application and more to do with sound. The main theme -- even featured as an 80s power ballad in "I'll Be Moving On" -- is really the first time Zimmer utilized this particular sound, that way.

    And here is where it becomes complex: we have completely ignored Backdraft and Drop Zone,


    No, I'm well aware of them, but I consider them stepping stones in the evolution of the sound.

    I stick with the three I mentioned earlier as the three cornerstones, and the PIRATES score as the sound's "last huzzah" before Powell redefined everything with the first BOURNE as far as action scores are concerned.
    I am extremely serious.
  5. Hmm, I'd say King Arthur. The whole evolution of the Pirates sound (except part 4, but that was... a difficult one) was about gradually walking away from the sound, to the point that due to some of the thematic material, I wouldn't call it a staple of the power anthem style anymore.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  6. I wouldn't really underestimate Drop Zone either, It's more of a rock-infused action score than most of what came before including Black Rain. A point also has to be made, really, about Mark Mancina's contribution to the sound. Speed, Bad Boys and Twister can't be ignored here. Same for Nick Glennie-Smith. In fact, while I have no way of confirming it, I have a sense that it was his additional cues for Bad Boys that gave him The Rock gig (Hans' was a saving job and, from what I have heard, HGW was on the score before Hans came to rescue Glennie-Smith from the wrath).

    I also disconnect Batman Begins and the Bourne sound, while you seem to claim that the later Zimmer ostinato sound is an expansion of Powell's style. Different kind of ostinati and approach, I would say, it's a complex thing, but generally the "Nolanesque sound" and its impact on certain scores and the Bourne-wannabes aren't the same mold.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2020 edited
    All of the titles you mention play a part in it, but the task is not to list all representatives, but the cornerstones. And they need to be as few as possible in order to be cornerstones. Four corners of a house, four cornerstone representatives, in my opinion: BLACK RAIN (first), CRIMSON TIDE (fruition), THE ROCK (widest popularity) and PIRATES (last huzzah).

    Nobody remembers KING ARTHUR anymore. The Jack Sparrow theme was really the last time the power anthem had any kind of impact and popularity, before it waned almost completely.

    My claim isn't that the BOURNE ostinato and the Zimmer/Nolan ostinati are the same (they aren't), but that Powell ushered in a whole new APPROACH to action films, away from power anthems. A regular beat, and slight harmonic variations on top that just stayed through a scene without paying too much attention to split-second timings. This cemented itself in the genre over the next couple of years (a hilariously close example is Zanelli's HITMAN), so by the time Zimmer did his first Nolan, he had to adher to this. And he did so by doing his own twist on the self-same approach (darker, lusher, heavier).
    I am extremely serious.
  7. Paradoxically, I think Hans' "middle-man" to the Batman sound was King Arthur, which foreshadows his ostinato-based style, though actually the full development of that style led to Chevaliers de Sangreal rather than, of course, Batman Begins, which was rough around the edges.

    Zanelli's Hitman is one thing (he's not the most original composer ever by any means, after all), but what sealed the fact that the Bourne style was here to stay was informed by how James Newton Howard applied it in scores like The Interpreter and Salt.

    And I still think that Drop Zone and Speed (first non-Hans Zimmer score in that vein, too!) could be regarded as cornerstones.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2020
    PawelStroinski wrote
    And I still think that Drop Zone and Speed (first non-Hans Zimmer score in that vein, too!) could be regarded as cornerstones.


    I think they are the result of a sound, a part of the development at the time. But I wouldn't call them cornerstones. But certainly great to hear Mancina doing his own riff on the sound, in his own unique way, with SPEED. A classic in its own right.
    I am extremely serious.
  8. Actually, when he gets a chance to score a film, he still writes in the oldschool MV way! Shooter is a notable exception, but on the other hand, that one actually harkens a bit at the conspiracy thrillers of yesteryear.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2020 edited
    Yes, he's refreshingly oldfashioned that way. Not thrilled with the new BAD BOYS (for the most part), but love MOANA. Although calling it "MV-style" is a stretch, it's far more traditional orchestral. So there are probably better examples recently.
    I am extremely serious.
  9. The new Bad Boys was scored by Balfe. And the Mancina themes and short album make it just about tolerable.

    Gareth Coker - Ori and the Will of the Wisps

    This... is not a short album. Beautiful music - heartfelt, thematic, orchestral and choral, very atmospheric at the same time. But it's over 3 hours long...

    Everyone should try at least a couple of tracks though.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorLSH
    • CommentTimeApr 28th 2020
    ^

    My discovery of the year. Gorgeous stuff.

    Loved the first score and had no idea a sequel was in the works... so nice surprise.
  10. Ori and the Blind Forest

    Also beautiful and fantastic. Where have I been for the last few years?! I think I listened to it once because I chatted with the vocal soloist a few times, but somewhat it went over my head. I think I'll listen to most of the guy's oeuvre.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 1st 2020
    I just don't get the love for the Coker stuff, but I'm used to being the odd one out. smile
    I am extremely serious.
  11. I'd have thought, actually, that this kind of new-age'y stuff would be to your liking!
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 1st 2020
    Nah. It just 'sits there' without doing much, IMO. Neither melodically or texturally interesting. It's not bad or anything, but it doesn't do anything for me either.
    I am extremely serious.
  12. The atmosphere itself is compelling, even if it's not the most original stuff around. I'd like to find more about this particular sound and its roots, too.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  13. Thor wrote
    It just 'sits there' without doing much, IMO.

    Considering some of the stuff you champion, this is a very odd criticism indeed.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 1st 2020
    Ha, ha...yeah, probably. But there's texture, and then there's TEXTURE.
    I am extremely serious.
  14. The compelling aspect of something like Ori is that the texture creates a certain fuzzy and warm atmosphere. I can't really put a finger on why it works, but it just somehow does.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2020
    NP: THE BIG COUNTRY - Jerome Moross


    Been a long time since I listened to this masterpiece.

    How you all doing in these exceptionally strange and testing times? Any threads I should take a look at you can recommend?
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2020
    Maintitles is basically dead now, Tim. Very low activity -- but in your case, I guess there's a lot of unread material. I'm just flabbergasted by your whole journey. I remember about a year ago or so, when you said you'd be travelling for a few months, but now you've basically moved permanently abroad. I don't know how you're managing (are you working anywhere, to provide income?), but impressed nonetheless.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2020 edited
    Hi Tim! wave

    In what big country are you now?

    Like Thor said, your trip is massive. Hope all is well for you. You've been satying a long time in Nepal and region I think? Ever returning to Bristol?


    NP: BRIMSTONE & GLORY - dan romer and ben zeithlin

    One of my favourite scores of 2019. Fireworks! A festive score with awe and joyous music. Not for everyone I think. Lots of percussion, a fine main theme, and the last piece contains that heartfelt music that you may have heard in Beasts of the Southern Wild.
    Kazoo