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  1. I think it's quite well structured, myself.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 26th 2017 edited
    I'm sure it's all logical and makes sense, but the impression it makes when you're listening to it is one of chaos (a little bit of that theme there, a little bit of this theme there, copy and paste). In many ways, it's the 'cliché' or stereotype of what film music sounds like to those who have no connection to it.
    I am extremely serious.
  2. Interestingly your critique reflects some of the vitriol Richard Wagner sometimes receives in regard to Götterdämmerung, the final entry of the Ring-Tetralogy.
    Well, it is the 8th score in a series of formulaic films. You cannot expect Williams to reinvent Star Wars film music at this stage especially when the film itself does not offer a basis for that. Since you obviously did not like Giacchino's take on the musical heritage, my question would be, what do you imagine Star Wars film music (and films) to be like, given, that this is - and must remain - mainstream popcorn cinema that appeals to the masses?

    smile Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 27th 2017 edited
    Big fan of all the first six STAR WARS scores (for the prequels, he reinvented himself somewhat while at the same time keeping the setpieces/suite-like approach to the score).

    But my personal theory is that he lost some of that ability (or lost interest in it) after 2005. When he returned to film scoring 3 years later, with INDY IV (2008), suddenly it was all more anonymous. Lots of rhythmic figures, rather weak themes (that were more motif in style) and compositions jumping all over the place. It's been like that ever since (or he's just channeled standard Americana, which is something that has always come easy to him). The one that's come the closest to previous glory is WAR HORSE, but even that is uneven.

    THE POST, for me, was a rather comforting reminder that the NIXON/JFK/ACCIDENTAL TOURIST stylings are not altogether gone. THE LAST JEDI, on the other hand, is just a shoulder shrug -- although I'll probably give it a nod as 'honourable mention' when I sum up the year.
    I am extremely serious.
  3. The Prequel Trilogy set - for better or worse - a distinctly different tone compared to the Original Trilogy, thus giving licence to explore new musical ways. One also has to admit that choral music was very trendy back then in general. The Sequels very much try to emulate the atmosphere of the OT, so there is much less room to maneuver for Williams this time.
    Still not sure I quite follow you with that -all-over-the-place theory.

    smile Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 27th 2017 edited
    Captain Future wrote
    Still not sure I quite follow you with that -all-over-the-place theory.r


    It's not really that difficult.

    Example: In the OT, Williams composed almost a self-sufficient, standalone setpiece for the Tie Fighter Attack ("Here They Come"). And that's just one example. While there is certainly 'filler' material here too, the whole score feels like a symphony with individual movements or suites or setpieces that could be their own composition. In the sequels, this rarely happens. "Rey's Theme" and "March of the Resistance", perhaps, but that's about it.

    I don't think it's accidental that they've tracked in "Here They Come" on a few occasions in LAST JEDI. It's not only to do with narrative bridging, but also a fairly easy "copy/paste" job because Williams isn't really able to compose that way anymore. When it's not referencing old themes, the majority of TFA and TLJ consists of a multide of rhythmic figures, brass flurries, STAR WARSy chord leaps and things that SOUND like STAR WARS, but doesn't have the melodic movement that is needed.

    The same criticism can be levelled at any Williams score since 2005 (THE BOOK THIEF being the worst offender), but it becomes particularly obvious when he's trying to emulate his trademark sounds of franchises we already know.

    Whimsical, scatterbrained, chaotic, all-over-the-place...there are many words I could use to describe this.
    I am extremely serious.
  4. Thor wrote
    Captain Future wrote
    Still not sure I quite follow you with that -all-over-the-place theory.r


    I don't think it's accidental that they've tracked in "Here They Come" on a few occasions in LAST JEDI. It's not only to do with narrative bridging, but also a fairly easy "copy/paste" job because Williams isn't really able to compose that way anymore.


    That's a bold claim really. It's more likely the film was temp tracked that way and Williams was asked to keep it that way.
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 27th 2017
    If the nature of the music was unique to TLJ, I would possibly go along with the 'blaming the filmmaker' argument, which you seem to support. As is happens, though, this is nothing unique. It's a thread throughout all of his work in the last decade.
    I am extremely serious.
  5. Thor wrote
    Perhaps the word means something different in English than in Norwegian ('vimsete'), but it connotes a form of 'scatterbrain' that is all over the place, rarely settling into something coherent or something that is rigidly structural.

    I'd certainly agree that there's certainly a 'scatterbrained' feel to the score, in the sense that the music rarely settles down to an extended exploration of a specific musical idea/theme. The majority of the score sounds like a series of half-ideas that are gone almost as quickly as they are stated.

    Without having seen the film yet, I have assumed that the editing in the film is also a bit 'scatterbrained' with rapid edits forcing Williams to follow this style.
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeDec 27th 2017 edited
    I recognize what Thor says (although I’d definitely not describe it as “whimsical”, but that might be a language thing), but I actually think it has a lot to do with the construction of albums nowadays and may not be the result of Williams’ years gap.

    I don’t think John Williams’ method of scoring has changed, as his suites used to be a result of the care and effort that were taken with the soundtrack releases that is now gone. Take for example the Ultimate Edition (i.e. the film version) of The Phantom Menace - even Duel of the Fates was all over the place. The reason that cue is so well remembered is because of the suite arrangement for the album, which was done after the film recordings. It was those suites that gave the CD presentations its moments of structure, as is the case with a large part of the other suite arrangements Williams used to do for his scores.

    Were The Phantom Menace released nowadays, the exact same score, we wouldn’t have had this suite arrangement either, nor the Anakin’s Theme suite. Nor would we have gotten the Across the Stars suite, because it wasn’t needed in that way for the film. Nowadays he may simply not be afforded the luxury to preprare these. Had The Last Jedi been released back then, we might’ve gotten a concert suite of Rose’s Theme, not used in the film.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeDec 27th 2017
    yeah

    Rose's theme is crying out for a concert arrangement. It's great.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeDec 27th 2017
    Truth!
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  6. Rebellion is Reborn is the concert suite and it intertwines both new themes,
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 27th 2017
    BobdH wrote
    I don’t think John Williams’ method of scoring has changed, as his suites used to be a result of the care and effort that were taken with the soundtrack releases that is now gone.


    Well, I'm not only talking about the way soundtracks are produced, but the very way the music is composed for film. Surely, it's fairly obvious that the self-contained, setpiece tracks Williams composed for the OT is very rarely to be found in the new films? And I don't buy the argument that it's all about the editing and so forth; there are plenty of stretches in TFA and TLJ that would call for a similar treatment, had Williams still had that skill (or interest).
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 28th 2017 edited
    BobdH wrote
    The reason that cue is so well remembered is because of the suite arrangement for the album, which was done after the film recordings.


    Actually, Duel of the Fates and Anakin's Theme were recorded for the end credits of the film.

    PawelStroinski wrote
    Rebellion is Reborn is the concert suite and it intertwines both new themes,


    yeah

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorLSH
    • CommentTimeDec 29th 2017 edited
    NP: My THOMAS NEWMAN Bedtime Playlist

    A selective pick of Newman's most tender and dreamy cues, all in one playlist. After more than a few glasses of port.

    Bliss.

    sleep
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2017
    could Shore's HUGO be the most underrated score of the past 10 years?

    probably not. but its a good score.
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJan 2nd 2018
    The Post JW

    Struggle to see what's got some people so excited, but the ten-minute finale is very good indeed.
  7. REBEL IN THE RYE - Bear McCreary

    One of the my favorite scores of the year. "Innocence" is an absolutely gorgeous piece.
  8. NP: The Last Jedi (2017) - John Williams

    What really appeals to me is the incorporation of themes from the Prequel films, something that the Sequel films themselves so far refused to do.

    Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
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      CommentAuthorRalph Kruhm
    • CommentTimeJan 6th 2018 edited
    The Prequels? Damn, I really need to sit down and listen to this thing! I wanted to give it the proper listening treatment instead of the running it in the background one, but it hasn't happened yet.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJan 6th 2018
    Apart from the temp-track carryover hints at Battle of the Heroes, I'm not sure which prequels themes Volker is referring to.
  9. "Escape" incorporates "Battle of the Heroes" in the most elegant and decidedly non-temp-tracky way. The choral part of "The Last Jedi" (cue) subtly indicates the funeral theme from The Phantom Menace. (at 1:00) That at least is my perception.

    smile Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
  10. I think that's pure temp-track, really. Using Battle of the Heroes in that moment makes no leitmotivic sense whatsoever.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  11. I can't really put it against the film, having seen it only once. But yeah, that early in the film it does seem to make little sense. As pure music thought I love it.
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
  12. NP: The Last Unicorn (1982) - Jimmy Webb; America

    This film - maybe lesser known in other parts - is regarded as a cult classic here in Germany. And so is the score.

    Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2018
    PawelStroinski wrote
    I think that's pure temp-track, really. Using Battle of the Heroes in that moment makes no leitmotivic sense whatsoever.


    yeah
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorAidabaida
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2018
    Casper's Lullaby...
    Bach's music is heartless and robotic.
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      CommentAuthorchristopher
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018 edited
    Aidabaida wrote
    Casper's Lullaby...


    ...is always lovely.

    NP: MULLY - Benjamin Wallfisch

    This score came out of nowhere for me. I had no idea he had yet another score come out in 2017. I'm not done listening to it yet, but it will probably end up being my favorite of his from last year. It's really lovely. "Father to the Fatherless," "The Art of Empathy," and "Finding Water" are totally gorgeous.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018
    christopher wrote
    NP: MULLY - Benjamin Wallfisch

    This score came out of nowhere for me. I had no idea he had yet another score come out in 2017. I'm not done listening to it yet, but it will probably end up being my favorite of his from last year. It's really lovely.


    It's merely 'OK', in my opinion. It's far outshined by BLADE RUNNER 2049 and especially BITTER HARVEST.
    I am extremely serious.