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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2017 edited
    I want to start a general discussion about the Wallace creation, how it was brought to the screen, the music, and the different films. I prefer he 1933 original but I've been told I have rocks in my head and the 2005 remake is the best. What do you think? Best score of the three films?
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2017
    The 1933 version all the way.
    Film, score, story. The whole rigmarole.

    I have a softspot for certain elements of the 1976 remake (mostly Barry's score and the modern "upgrade" to include the Twin Towers and helicopters) as well as the 2005 version (but mostly because of its very selfaware references to the thirties!), but at the end of the day they don't hold a candle to the original.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2017
    (Moved this to "Film" rather than "General" forums, by the way)
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  1. I do think Andy Serkis' performance as Kong in the 2005 version is quite wonderful, it "humanizes" the big guy in a way that 1933 effects simply weren't capable of (and indeed that wasn't really the aim of that film either, so it's apples and oranges).
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2017
    Serkis is excellent!

    But I've had never had any problems with empathising with the doll in the 1933 version. smile
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorCaliburn
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2017
    Serkis is very good in being apes :-)
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2017
    I think he simply Gollums his Kong to Snokes.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2017 edited
    The 1933 film is an important historical document (for special effects and music, in particular), but I've never been able to be engrossed in the narrative. More of an academic detachment.

    I have a nostalgic relationship to the 1976 version, because I rented the movie on VHS for a birthday in the 80s. I haven't seen it since.

    The 2005 film is by far the best in terms of engrossment, IMO. It has many overlooked virtues.

    The new film, KONG: SKULL ISLAND, was a very bland affair, not made better by the silly 4DX format I saw it in.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2017
    As far as the 2005 film is concerned I really couldn't get past Adrien Brody. I liked the score that JNH did and the special effects were good.

    For many reasons the 1933 film was special. It was the first to have a beginning to end score that was original. Willis O'Brien was special. It saved RKO from going bankrupt. The film made over a million dollars and please remember that we had a horrible depression was going on. This was a time when the dime they spent for admission could buy enough food to feed themselves for a day. How many other 1933 films can you name that have stood the test of time?
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2017
    sdtom wrote
    How many other 1933 films can you name that have stood the test of time?


    I agree on the film easily withstanding the test of time. But there are plenty from the early thirties that did as well, so that, I'd say, is not a accolade per se!
    Frankenstein, All Quiet On The Western Front, Chaplin's City Lights, Dracula, Die Blaue Engel, M - Eine Stadt Sucht Einen Mörder, A Night At The Opera...the list goes on and on!
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  2. Martijn wrote
    I think he simply Gollums his Kong to Snokes.


    One day there will be a film about the life of Serkis the mo-cap actor performed by a chimp in a suit. biggrin
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
  3. 1933: A landmark film in many respects and of course a ground breaking score by Steiner. While I find the story of the score fascinating it was never a personal favourite of mine.

    1976: This is my Kong really, which is mostly due to childhood nostalgia. Barry's score is tremendous. I love the cast. The ecological message was chasing the zeitgeist of course. Some of the special effects aren't so good, but the film ultimately succeeds.

    2005: There is a really good film hidden within this colossus. The film is much too long and needs trimming. In contrast to Tom my beef is not with Adrian Brody but with Jack Black. I just can't stand the guy. But here I also lay some blame on Jackson's concept of the character. The score by J. N. Howard is very good especially given the time restraint. I'd like to hear the material Shore recorded for the film. And who wouldn't? smile

    Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
  4. Never saw the original.

    May have seen the remake once (can't remember much).

    Love the re-remake. Brilliant tour de force film-making.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2017
    That is like the rewrites novelists have done on their books. The only way we'll ever her the Shore material is if he knows enough copies will be sold. Our tiny community couldn't buy enough copies.
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2017
    42nd Street, Directed by Lloyd Bacon, starring Dick Powell, Ruby Keeler, Ginger Rogers
    Adorable, directed by William Dieterle, starring Janet Gaynor
    Don Quixote, directed by G.W. Pabst, starring Feodor Chaliapin - (France/GB)
    After Tonight, starring Constance Bennett
    Alice in Wonderland, starring Charlotte Henry and virtually every Paramount star at the time
    Baby Face, starring Barbara Stanwyck and George Brent
    Beauty for Sale, starring Madge Evans and Alice Brady
    Bed of Roses, starring Constance Bennett and Joel McCrea
    A Bedtime Story, starring Maurice Chevalier
    Berkeley Square
    Bitter Sweet, starring Anna Neagle - (GB)
    The Bitter Tea of General Yen, starring Barbara Stanwyck
    Blood Money, starring George Bancroft
    Bombshell, starring Jean Harlow
    The Bowery, starring Wallace Beery and George Raft
    Bureau of Missing Persons, starring Bette Davis and Pat O'Brien
    By Candlelight, directed by James Whale
    Cash, directed by Zoltan Korda, starring Robert Donat - (GB)
    Cavalcade, starring Diana Wynyard, Clive Brook, Una O'Connor and Herbert Mundin
    Der Choral von Leuthen (The Hymn of Leuthen), directed by Carl Froelich - (Germany)
    Counsellor at Law, starring John Barrymore and Bebe Daniels
    Dancing Lady, starring Joan Crawford and Clark Gable
    Daybreak (Tiānmíng) - (China)
    Deluge, starring Sidney Blackmer
    The Deserter - (U.S.S.R.)
    Design for Living, starring Fredric March, Gary Cooper and Miriam Hopkins
    The Devil's Brother, starring Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardy
    Dick Turpin, directed by Victor Hanbury, starring Victor McLaglen (GB)
    Dinner at Eight, directed by George Cukor and featuring an all-star cast
    Doctor Bull, starring Will Rogers
    Dora's Dunking Doughnuts, starring Shirley Temple
    Dragnet Girl (Hijosen no onna), starring Kinuyo Tanaka, directed by Yasujirō Ozu - (Japan)
    Duck Soup, directed by Leo McCarey, starring the Marx Brothers
    The Eagle and the Hawk, starring Fredric March, Cary Grant, Carole Lombard
    Ecstasy, starring Hedy Lamarr - (Czechoslovakia)
    The Emperor Jones, starring Paul Robeson
    Employees' Entrance, starring Warren William and Loretta Young
    Ever in My Heart, starring Barbara Stanwyck
    Ex-Lady, starring Bette Davis
    Fast Workers, starring John Gilbert and Mae Clarke
    The Flower of Hawaii (Die Blume von Hawaii), directed by Richard Oswald - (Germany)
    Flüchtlinge (Refugees) - (Germany)
    Flying Down to Rio, starring Dolores del Río and Gene Raymond. Also starring Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers in their first of 10 films together
    Footlight Parade, starring James Cagney, Joan Blondell and Ruby Keeler
    Friday the Thirteenth, directed by Victor Saville, starring Jessie Matthews - (GB)
    Gabriel Over the White House, directed by Gregory La Cava, starring Walter Huston, Produced by William Randolph Hearst
    Ganga Bruta, directed by Humberto Mauro, starring Durval Bellini and Déa Selva (Brazil)
    The Ghoul, starring Boris Karloff, Cedric Hardwicke and Ernest Thesiger - (GB)
    The Ghost Camera, directed by Bernard Vorhaus, starring Ida Lupino, John Mills - (GB)
    Going Hollywood, starring Marion Davies, Bing Crosby, Patsy Kelly, Fifi D'Orsay, and Sterling Holloway
    Gold Diggers of 1933, directed by Mervyn LeRoy, starring Joan Blondell, Ruby Keeler, Dick Powell, Ginger Rogers and Warren William
    The Good Companions, directed by Victor Saville, starring Jessie Matthews, Edmund Gwenn and John Gielgud - (GB)
    Goodbye Again, starring Joan Blondell and Warren William
    Hallelujah, I'm a Bum, starring Al Jolson
    Hard to Handle, starring James Cagney
    Heroes for Sale, starring Loretta Young and Richard Barthelmess
    Hold Your Man, starring Jean Harlow and Clark Gable
    The House on 56th Street, starring Kay Francis
    The House of Dora Green, directed by Henrik Galeen, starring Mady Christians - (Germany)
    I'm No Angel, starring Mae West and Cary Grant. West also wrote the story and screenplay.
    In the Wake of the Bounty, starring Errol Flynn as Fletcher Christian - (Australia)
    International House, starring W. C. Fields, George Burns, Gracie Allen
    The Invisible Man, starring Claude Rains in the title role with Gloria Stuart
    It's Great to Be Alive, directed by Alfred L. Werker and starring Raul Roulien and Gloria Stuart
    Każdemu wolno kochać (Anybody Can Love), by Mieczysław Krawicz - (Poland)
    King Kong, starring Fay Wray and Robert Armstrong
    Ladies They Talk About, starring Barbara Stanwyck
    Lady for a Day, directed by Frank Capra, starring Warren William and May Robson
    Lady Killer, starring James Cagney
    Liebelei, directed by Max Ophüls - (Germany)
    Life Is a Dog (Život je pes), directed by Martin Frič - (Czechoslovakia)
    Little Toys (Xiáo wǎnyì), directed by Sun Yu - (China)
    Little Women, directed by George Cukor, starring Katharine Hepburn and Joan Bennett
    Looking Forward, directed by Clarence Brown, starring Lionel Barrymore
    Lot in Sodom, starring Friedrich Haak
    Loyalties, starring Basil Rathbone - (GB)
    Man's Castle, starring Spencer Tracy and Loretta Young
    The Mayor of Hell, starring James Cagney
    Men Must Fight, starring Diana Wynyard
    Midnight Club, starring George Raft and Clive Brook
    Midnight Mary, directed by William A. Wellman, starring Loretta Young
    The Midnight Patrol, starring Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardy
    Money for Speed, directed by Bernard Vorhaus, starring John Loder and Ida Lupino - (GB)
    The Monkey's Paw, directed by Ernest B. Schoedsack
    Morning Glory, starring Katharine Hepburn and Douglas Fairbanks Jr.
    Mystery of the Wax Museum, starring Lionel Atwill and Fay Wray
    Okraina (The Outskirts) - (U.S.S.R.)
    One Sunday Afternoon, starring Gary Cooper and Fay Wray
    Only Yesterday, starring Margaret Sullavan
    Our Betters, starring Constance Bennett, Gilbert Roland, and Anita Louise
    Parachute Jumper, starring Douglas Fairbanks Jr., Bette Davis, and Frank McHugh
    Passing Fancy (Dekigokoro), directed by Yasujirō Ozu - (Japan)
    Peg o' My Heart, starring Marion Davies, Onslow Stevens, and J. Farrell MacDonald
    Penthouse, starring Warner Baxter and Myrna Loy
    Perfect Understanding, starring Gloria Swanson and Laurence Olivier - (GB)
    Pick-Up, starring Sylvia Sydney and George Raft
    Picture Snatcher, starring James Cagney
    Pilgrimage, directed by John Ford
    The Power and the Glory, starring Spencer Tracy
    The Private Life of Henry VIII, directed by Alexander Korda, starring Charles Laughton - (GB)
    The Prizefighter and the Lady, starring Max Baer, Myrna Loy, Primo Carnera and Jack Dempsey
    Professional Sweetheart, starring Ginger Rogers
    Queen Christina, directed by Rouben Mamoulian, starring Greta Garbo and John Gilbert
    Roman Scandals, starring Eddie Cantor, Ruth Etting, Gloria Stuart
    S.O.S Iceberg (S.O.S. Eisberg), starring Leni Riefenstahl - (Germany)
    Secret of the Blue Room, starring Paul Lukas, Gloria Stuart and Lionel Atwill
    Secrets, starring Mary Pickford in her last film
    She Done Him Wrong, starring Mae West and Cary Grant in his first notable film role
    She Had to Say Yes, starring Loretta Young and Lyle Talbot, directed by Busby Berkeley and George Amy
    The Son of Kong, starring Robert Armstrong and Helen Mack
    Sons of the Desert, starring Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardy
    A Southern Maid, starring Bebe Daniels and Clifford Mollison - (GB)
    'Spring Silkworms (Chung Can) - (China)
    State Fair, starring Janet Gaynor, Will Rogers and Lew Ayres
    The Story of Temple Drake, starring Miriam Hopkins and Jack La Rue
    The Stranger's Return, starring Miriam Hopkins and Lionel Barrymore
    A Study in Scarlet, starring Reginald Owen
    Supernatural, starring Carole Lombard, Alan Dinehart, Vivienne Osborne and Randolph Scott
    The Testament of Dr. Mabuse, directed by Fritz Lang, starring Otto Wernicke - (Germany)
    This Day and Age, Cecil B. Demille's now cult-favorite, starring Richard Cromwell and featuring then-teenager: Baby Peggy.
    This Week of Grace' directed by Maurice Elvey, starring Gracie Fields - (Britain)
    Three-Cornered Moon, starring Claudette Colbert and Richard Arlen
    Three Little Pigs, an animated short
    Tillie and Gus, starring Alison Skipworth and W. C. Fields
    Today We Live, starring Joan Crawford and Gary Cooper
    Tonight Is Ours, starring Fredric March and Claudette Colbert
    Topaze, starring John Barrymore and Myrna Loy
    Torch Singer, starring Claudette Colbert
    Tugboat Annie, starring Marie Dressler and Wallace Beery
    Turn Back the Clock, starring Lee Tracy and Mae Clarke
    The Vampire Bat, starring Lionel Atwill and Fay Wray
    Viktor und Viktoria - (Germany)
    Voltaire, starring George Arliss
    When Ladies Meet, starring Ann Harding, Robert Montgomery and Myrna Loy
    The World Changes, starring Mary Astor and Paul Muni
    Wild Boys of the Road, starring Frankie Darro and Edwin Phillips
    The Working Man, starring George Arliss and Bette Davis
    You Made Me Love You starring Stanley Lupino and Thelma Todd - (GB)
    Zero for Conduct (Zéro de conduite), directed by Jean Vigo - (France)
    listen to more classical music!
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2017
    Those are movies, yes.
    I am extremely serious.
  5. What the heck happened there, Tom? lol
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2017
    Look! A list!
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2017
    those are the movies from 1933
    listen to more classical music!
  6. And to your point above, I only recognize about five of those movies. KONG was a seminal film. There can be no doubt of its impact on cinema. I've only seen parts of it, though. Never the whole thing. Same with the 1976 KONG. I enjoyed the 2005 film, though the middle was long and pretty pointless.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2017
    christopher wrote
    And to your point above, I only recognize about five of those movies. KONG was a seminal film. There can be no doubt of its impact on cinema. I've only seen parts of it, though. Never the whole thing. Same with the 1976 KONG. I enjoyed the 2005 film, though the middle was long and pretty pointless.


    The middle is the best part of the movie, especially the bug sequence.
    I am extremely serious.
  7. That part is an annoyingly pointless CGI fest.
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2017 edited
    No, it's incredibly intense, fresh and original. Love how they draw out the suspense, with no music except a low hum. An impending sense of doom. In fact, it may very well be one of my favourite "action setpieces" in the last 12 years.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2017
    No, it's REALLY a rather interminable CGI fest.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2017 edited
    It couldn't be further from that. It's a sleak, envelopping, elegant use of CGI to completely absorb the audience. I've often used it in lectures to emphasize how effective a suspense/action sequence can be, even without traditional music.
    I am extremely serious.
  8. It provides you with a good opportunity to go to the toilet and get another beer from the fridge.
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2017
    He, he...it's thrilling to disagree so completely and utterly on something, like in this case.
    I am extremely serious.
  9. Thor wrote
    No, it's incredibly intense, fresh and original. Love how they draw out the suspense, with no music except a low hum. An impending sense of doom. In fact, it may very well be one of my favourite "action setpieces" in the last 12 years.


    I know exactly what you mean. It's meant to unsettle, especially having no music whatsoever and whenever I watch that sequence, it gives me the creeps. freezing
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2017
    Thor wrote
    It couldn't be further from that. It's a sleak, envelopping, elegant use of CGI to completely absorb the audience. I've often used it in lectures to emphasize how effective a suspense/action sequence can be, even without traditional music.


    While I agree with you on the use of music in that scene which made it creepier and more sinister I think you'd have been better off demonstrating to your students how this bloated film is a great example of how more is less.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2017
    Nah. There are too many great sequences and moments in the film for that. Not everything works equally well. I also have issues with Jack Black in this type of role, some of the last segment in NY felt "off" to me and a couple of the jungle sequences midway could have been edited down or omitted. But otherwise -- a fine, fine film with some great, trademark Jackson riffs to boot (love the introduction to the Skull island village, for example -- it's like leftovers from Mordor).
    I am extremely serious.