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  1. Case in point: The Dark Knight... give me the goofy characters and general zaniness of the first two over this bloated spectacle any day of the week. I don't think the Batman creators had the feel and look of The Dark Knight in mind when they wrote the comics. Camp = good IMO.

    Another great example of a film not taking itself seriously: Big Trouble in Little China. How in the hell can one not be entertained by such a marvelously constructed bunch of campiness. beer
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2010
    You're not serious, right?
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2010
    You have terrible taste in films, Gilles. Terrible taste.
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      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2010
    biggrin
    Kazoo
  2. DreamTheater wrote
    Case in point: The Dark Knight... give me the goofy characters and general zaniness of the first two over this bloated spectacle any day of the week. I don't think the Batman creators had the feel and look of The Dark Knight in mind when they wrote the comics. Camp = good IMO.

    Another great example of a film not taking itself seriously: Big Trouble in Little China. How in the hell can one not be entertained by such a marvelously constructed bunch of campiness. beer


    Art Kane surely didn't. Frank Miller most probably did.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2010
    DreamTheater wrote
    Want I want is more movies not taking themselves seriously, poking a bit of fun with itself and the characters and such. There's too much of the seriousness and not enough of the other kind. When I grew up movies were about being entertained. Con Air does that in spades, if you put your mind in neutral that is.


    You said it, bro! Not every film needs to be Ingmar Bergman and not every score needs to be CITIZEN KANE.

    CON AIR is top quality popcorn entertainment, and the score is glorious Rabin power anthems, complete with his typical "dramatic", minor-major mode power anthems on el guitar!

    It rocks, plain and simply! (although I have to be in the mood for it....it's not something I play often).
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2010
    DreamTheater wrote
    Case in point: The Dark Knight... give me the goofy characters and general zaniness of the first two over this bloated spectacle any day of the week. I don't think the Batman creators had the feel and look of The Dark Knight in mind when they wrote the comics. Camp = good IMO.

    Another great example of a film not taking itself seriously: Big Trouble in Little China. How in the hell can one not be entertained by such a marvelously constructed bunch of campiness. beer


    Dark Knight - Disagree! This IS Batman, truly sublime.

    Big Trouble In Little China - Agree! A great fun film that never takes itself seriously.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  3. If it was simply better written (I am not talking orchestra writing here, I am just talking a better-rounded sound), then it would have been a guilty pleasure to me.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorMarselus
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2010
    Christodoulides wrote
    If the score is as good as Rambo IV i'm sold. DT will wet himself with the movie i am sure wink

    I'm already wet.
    Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2010
    Dt and Glorieux and Thor what a wacky company! dizzy beer
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  4. The way I see it: this planet is already FUBAR anyway so why not let me contribute to it by spouting weird and wacky comments.

    At least there's some truth in all of them. cheesy

    And Thor, thanks for the support !!! beer
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2010
    DreamTheater wrote
    Case in point: The Dark Knight... give me the goofy characters and general zaniness of the first two over this bloated spectacle any day of the week. I don't think the Batman creators had the feel and look of The Dark Knight in mind when they wrote the comics. Camp = good IMO.


    smile
    I can only conclude you really don't know the comics.
    This is EXACTLY the Batman original creator Bob Kane had in mind.
    The very original Batman was quite ruthless and certainly not above killing when it was necessary (although always with regret).

    The camp Batman you prefer is an incarnation of the fifties (where things got rather silly, with Batman traveling through time, fighting martians and dragons and changing colour due to space radiation), which was the template for the wonderful Batman TV series of the sixties, which is singlehandedly responsible for 'camp' becoming an acceptable (and highly enjoyable!) format.

    However in the seventies the (comics) Batman returned to a darker and more brooding place, much closer to Kane's original vision (though updated for a new, more socially and morally conscious era).

    Burton's Batman is a wonderful update of the more campy Batman (though with a dark twist, as is Burton's trademark).
    Batman 3 and 4, while TRYING to aim for that same feel, were just made in the "bigger is better" vein...which it really isn't! "Over the top" is not funny per se.

    That's why I laud and applaud the Batman reboot, which takes its cue and format NOT from the fifties and sixties, but from the forties and seventies.
    It's a different Batman, yet as valid as the previous take...and arguably more authentic.

    ------------------------
    On a broader note (films not taking themselves seriously): I don't know.
    I'm a bit fed up with irony having become the overwhelming flavour.

    The main reason is that it's too EASY and LAZY a style to employ.
    I prefer films or works of art to make a bold statement. To challenge me (in whatever way! This may easily be humorous in form!) with something to say!

    Not taking yourself too seriously seems to have become a cop-out: it's simply to hide a lcak of content or a cowardice in the face of box office approval. "Oh, you know, I'm making a political statement, but hey! You shouldn't take it, like, seriously, y'know!" ).

    I enjoy summer blockbusters as much as the next guy.
    And I also get rather annoyed with Great Film Makers making Major Points without the slightest bit of selfreflection (taking notes, mister Moore?).

    But I wouldn't say there is too much seriousness going on.
    Quite the opposite. There's a LOT of escapism, one-dimesionality, over-the-topness and "irony" going on, and very few film makers indeed that dare to stick their necks out and really come out and SAY something.
    It's one of the reasons I was thoroughly impressed with the new Batman franchise: it's a blockbuster, but it pulls no punches whatsoever on issues like morality, social cohesion and evil. Now THESE are statements -whether you agree with them or not- that are worth naking and discussing, and these have led to bigger and broader discussions between me and friends and family than any other aspect of the films.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2010 edited
    Poor DT's mind is burned from watching and listening to too much Hollywood crap all these years :shrug:
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  5. I do agree with Martijn, to a point. I mean, if you are supposed to be serious with a message, then make a serious movie. DO add comic relief to get rid of tension and not to get over the top (autoirony is a good way to fight bathos off and that's hugely possible).

    What I mean is yes, one-dimensional, over the top, escapism is dominating these days. The pain is that, no, Martijn, I don't agree that there is too much irony in it. I think it's painful when you get the movie you just described (I merely used your words here!) which takes itself with so much self-importance like you just watched Hamlet and what you've seen is yet another dumb action movie without even likable characters!
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2010
    PawelStroinski wrote
    The pain is that, no, Martijn, I don't agree that there is too much irony in it. I think it's painful when you get the movie you just described (I merely used your words here!) which takes itself with so much self-importance like you just watched Hamlet and what you've seen is yet another dumb action movie without even likable characters!


    I think we're actually saying the same thing: it's so bad these days people -not even the makers- aren't able to discern the difference.

    We do get these insanely stupid, one-dimensional, lookit-me-being-important kind of films, and -stupid as they are- they can't even identify whether they're to be taken seriously or not! And that is the ultimate irony. Popcorn or nonsense being suggested to us as "having a message", "meaning something", or "having an impact" after all.

    I would agree that the times of clear internal irony -thankfully- are behind us: you know: the films where the hero makes a quick quip after a particularly gruesome discovery or battle. And that's fine. I'm sick to death of these utterly unnatyural dialogues and behavioral attitudes (sadly these seem now to have crossed over into TV, which is only one of ther easons I have always loathed that pathetic excuse for a sitcom Friends where every singly line was written and performed with such inherent and blatant irony that nothing even resembling a natural reaction could be discerned.

    In that same vein I'm not the biggest fan of auto-irony (meaning, I take it, that a particularly sad or dramatic situation is offset by an ironic comment. "Yo Schindler, I'm even gladder to be on your list than on Santa's!"). The main reason is that in real life situations, people generally do not react with a quip or a bon mot, offsetting the situation.
    Comic relief is fine.
    Necessary, even!
    But when you look at the classic form of comic relief, you'll find it's generally external, situational.

    Anyway, not to say irony should be routed out.
    Quite the contrary. As so many, I employ it a lot (a sign of the times, probably).
    But it's losing its sting.

    In film we've seen the "stark" (it's just there) approach (twenties film making) the "clean" (just ignore what is too painful or gruesome) approach (thirties through fifties) , the hyper-realistic (do not shy away, show the details) approach (sixties and seventies), and the ironic approach (eighties to ...?).

    To my mind it's time for something else. The only way to re-impress human nature in the face of adversity may be to reinvent the format of drama surrounding it.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  6. Christodoulides wrote
    Poor DT's mind is burned from watching and listening to too much Hollywood crap all these years :shrug:


    I guess that must be it. But I'm making no excuses that I enjoy 'dumb & loud' blockbusters quite a lot. The louder the better.

    Martijn, your explaining skills put my rants to shame. I have never read the Batman comics, I always thought that was the way he was portrayed.

    But it doesn't take away the fact I simply can't enjoy TDK for being too convoluted.

    And to get the ball rolling again:

    I enjoy Friends, it's easy to get into and I love the humor. tongue
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2010
    My solution to the naysayers that "all films are bad and stupid nowadays" is easy - LOOK OUTSIDE HOLLYWOOD! There's a WORLD out there (literally) of great and serious films to your liking that eschew many, if not all "Hollywood gimmicks".

    Again, if you want Ingmar Bergman, don't go look for it in TRANSFORMERS! The trick is to view something on its OWN terms.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2010
    Where did you see any naysayers? confused
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2010
    Martijn wrote
    Where did you see any naysayers? confused


    I don't know...the last few posts mostly seemed to be about how crap Hollywood is, and a call for more thought-provoking films. Did I miss something?
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2010
    I dunno. confused I certainly seem to have missed those posts.

    But then I can be a little singleminded. smile
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  7. The last couple of posts were yours M? dizzy
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2010
    Quite.
    But I can't remember saying anything about how crap Hollywood is (which would have been rather odd, as I don't think it is at all).
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  8. Well you said quite a lot, maybe you just forgot. tongue

    To get back on topic again, I don't think Jerry had problems whether Hollywood is crap or not. The man just wrote masterpieces for any kind of film (good or bad). Even bad films would get somewhat good with this man overseeing the musical side.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJun 11th 2010
    Yeap, exactly. More of this approach please.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
  9. Steven wrote
    You have terrible taste in films, Gilles. Terrible taste.


    in fact, he has excellent taste

    Big Trouble in Little China is one of the many 80's films that holds a personal campy style that most movies can't even create nowadays, that's why I have high hopes for The A-Team film, which looks like to produce the same A quality total goofy entertaining non serious action camp that most of those 80's films continued to deliver

    I love 80's films punk

    then again, I also love The Dark Knight (even though I think Batman Begins is still better)
    unlike my brother, I can also watch these serious blockbuster movies
    waaaaaahhhhhhhh!!! Where's my nut? arrrghhhhhhh
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2010
    Thomas Glorieux wrote
    I also love The Dark Knight (even though I think Batman Begins is still better)


    Jesus, it runs in the family.
  10. Yep, the whole family is really borderline insane... Even the family dog thinks it's male, while in fact she is not.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
  11. Erik Woods wrote
    NEW FROM LA LA LAND RECORDS

    THE EDGE
    - On Sale June 15th
    Newly remastered and expanded edition of one of Jerry Goldsmith last great scores. A true masterpiece from the genius himself featuring over 65 minutes of music. This new edition is brought to you courtesy of 20th Century Fox and Sony Special Products. (and yes, the glitch has been fixed. smile )

    Limited Edition of 3500 units
    Retail Price: $19.98

    Produced by Nick Redman, Mike Matessino and Didier Deutsch
    Liner Notes by Jeff Bond

    -Erik-


    Fantastic! I've always been totally satisfied with the original album presentation so generally I wouldn't upgrade but I love this score so much it's a no brainer for me. I won't be surprised if I return most often to the original disc but I just cant resist ordering this and listening to that extra music. I know some people think of this as lesser Goldsmith but I personally put it right up there with his best work from the 60s and 70s. Can't wait to get it!
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2010
    Thor wrote
    THE EDGE is a pretty decent score - from the jazzy stuff to the outdoorsy action stuff. I would never buy an expanded release, and - in fact - I just recently sold my old album to a member here on the board.


    Hehe, yeap, and that would be me. My initial reaction upon seeing this was 'ah no, it happens to me again on a Goldsmith score!' (not long after I bought Poltergeist, the rumors came about the remastered complete version). But I'm very happen with this original release, and don't feel like I'm missing anything. Don't love it enough for an expanded version, so this just saves me some money :-).
  12. Steven wrote
    Thomas Glorieux wrote
    I also love The Dark Knight (even though I think Batman Begins is still better)


    Jesus, it runs in the family.


    seriously, Batman Begins is much better, smoother too
    waaaaaahhhhhhhh!!! Where's my nut? arrrghhhhhhh