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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2017 edited
    BobdH wrote
    I'm trying to find the logic in your reasoning, but I'm genuinely surprised you're annoyed about the discussion veering into the old and tiresome C&C debate while Thomas clearly referred to simply re releasing this out of print title so soon (his words) without referring to the contents of the release, while you explained your choice of word of 'superfluous' does refer to it being C&C in your mind, thus getting the discussion in that territory, even though I don't agree with it.


    You're making it out to be more complicated than it is, Bob. There are two issues that are sorta related. I think:

    a) this release is superflous, because it has been sufficiently covered in the past, both for 'album fans' and 'C&C fans'. A new release -- if it is indeed necessary due to limited availability, for example -- should IMO be reissues of either of these, preferably the first.

    b) I'm saddened that the situation is such these days that the C&C craze has caused people to talk more about missing music than the actual music (not only here, but in most messageboards I frequent), in turn resulting in absurd releases like this.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2017 edited
    Well, to make it even more simple, my confusement of this discussion stems from you saying:

    A) I'm against this release because it's C&C
    B) Why are we always talking about the C&C'ness of releases?
    Procrastinate now. Don't put it off.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2017 edited
    First of all, I'm not only against it because it's C&C, but because it's so outlandishly beyond even that (analogue and digital version of the whole score? Really?! Do we need that?). Second, my issue in this particular case was more the 'discussion climate' in film score land, and how that may result in such releases in the first place. This doesn't necessarily mean that one must also discuss the pros and cons of C&C.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2017 edited
    Okay, I think you simply chose the wrong release to bring this up (for reasons I've been trying to explain, but you don't want to get into), and responded it to a discussion that wasn't exemplary of the point you were trying to make.

    In the general sense, sure, people talk too much about missing music which may result in labels adding to much to their releases, but I'm glad Intraday separated the listening experience from the bonus content on a separate disc so it caters to both parties, everybody happy.

    And I don't think the talk on message boards is the main reason these releases get more elaborate, it's also simply the case of wanting to do something new when you get to rerelease something, and if the material is there, why not?
    Procrastinate now. Don't put it off.
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2017
    Thor wrote
    (analogue and digital version of the whole score? Really?! Do we need that?)


    On a separate disc! At no extra cost! If there are people out there that are happy about it, why not?!
    Procrastinate now. Don't put it off.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2017 edited
    Yeah, that's the big difference between us -- I don't have such a casual relationship to these things (i.e. "if people are happy with it, why not?"). I see them as symptoms of things that I don't think are particularly healthy for the film score community as a whole, especially in the way we relate to and talk about soundtrack albums. I've obviously felt this way about the C&C craze for many years, but when a release like this appears -- which I think goes beyond even that -- I feel it's worth pointing out.

    I remember making a similar statement on FSM when the 3CD BREAKDOWN (Poledouris) release came out several years back, and it caused all kinds of havoc. That is of course another negative aspect of the 'new discourse' ("if you don't like the way a soundtrack is presented, don't buy it! Just shut up!"). Fortunately, it's not quite as bad here on Maintitles.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2017 edited
    Thor wrote
    Yeah, that's the big difference between us -- I don't have such a casual relationship to these things (i.e. "if people are happy with it, why not?").


    I don't think I have a casual relationship towards the C&C craze, but a realistic one. Personally, I'm against it because C&C more often than not prevents the listening experience from being a good one, but I acknowledge the fact that many do want every minute of music. This thing evolves: at first labels were like, "LETS THROW IT ALL ONTO A DISC AND THEY ARE HAPPY", which in my mind destroyed my enjoyment. However, that also got a backlash, and now labels recognise the importance of the listening experience and separate the soundtrack album programme from the 'extra's', separately on another disc. I applaud this and think we should applaud releases like POLTERGEIST II, because it provides both parties a great experience (especially since the C&C crowd is already open to the idea that they arrange their own album, as opposed to the detractors of it, who simply want it all in a perfect way on disc, such as myself).

    It's fine to criticise the releases that get it wrong, but I fail to see how Poltergeist II is so wrong, and if you start moaning about every release without giving it a proper thought, you lose credibility and it works counter-productive towards your goal.

    You don't stop this movement, but when a release is fairly priced, provides a good listening programme... who the fuck cares it ALSO contains stuff other people love? I really, really fail to see how that is destroying the system.
    Procrastinate now. Don't put it off.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2017 edited
    OK, realistic/pragmatic, then. Again, I'm less interested in pragmatics (I'm well aware I can't stop the movement) and more interested in ideology (I can at the very least be critical of said movement when the occasion calls for it).

    I agree that the idea to have the original album also included in the "expanded package" was a step in the right direction, but that doesn't apply to this release. It has the complete (and presumably chronological) presentation of the score, presented TWICE! Plus "extras"! Then you may argue: "Sure, but then you can just select and arrange the tracks in the order of the original OST!". I don't subscribe to this 'interactive' soundtrack album use, even if there is an original program you can use as guidance.

    Plus, it's really beside the point here. My main contention was how releases like this are both a result of, and resulting in a type of discourse that deals more with quantity, archeology, documentation etc. Something has been lost along the way there.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2017 edited
    Never mind, I've already argued against what you're saying here why you think this release is C&C, and I basically fail to see how this isn't another version of your rant against C&C releases to bring up again, albeit another aspect of it (the talk about it and how it fuels it), but still the same discussion.
    Procrastinate now. Don't put it off.
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      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2017 edited
    I have to step in! Can we quit this discussion here, since it has been going on over the course of times a few times now. Please continue it in a separate topic?

    Thanks!
    Thor wrote
    Soundtrack collecting has turned into "Archeology 101".

    However, this was a funny statement, and I want to leave it with this comment. biggrin
    Kazoo
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2017
    OK!

    Jerry Goldsmith.
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJul 30th 2017