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      CommentAuthorCristian
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2010
    DreamTheater wrote
    Timmer wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    DreamTheater wrote
    I disagree completely with you man. Ottman wrote a fine hommage score. It's symphonic, grand and sweeping. I don't need anything more than that for Superman.


    Uh huh... however Ottman actually thought that Superman indeed "needed more" by including a choir during the heroic airplane rescue! LAME!

    Ottman's score is pretty weak however his Luthor theme is superb! But his variation on Williams classic love theme is pants and his own attempt at writing a new more modern love theme isn't a theme at all. It's like 5-6-7 random notes that don't even make up any sort of melody. It goes absolutely nowhere. What a wasted opportunity!

    -Erik-


    Yeap! I agree. To pin-point one thing that killed it for me....choir!


    Well whatever you guys think about it, it's a score that works for me. And that's that!


    It works for me, too. I like it, it's not John Ottman' best score for sure but it's very enjoyable.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2010 edited
    Thor wrote
    I think it's those exact changes that make Ottman's version so great. I'm not sure what he does,


    Did you listen to the Podcast I linked to?

    Thor wrote
    The theme was always a little too schmalzy in the first place.


    That's a word I would never use to associate Williams superbly constructed theme. What Ottman does is exposes his weaknesses as a composer by dumbing down the theme with his changes. It just goes to show that he truly doesn't understand how and why Williams wrote the theme and orchestrations the way he did. I mean, why didn't Ottman change the orchestration of the love theme in the main title?

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  1. To remain iconic I guess?
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  2. But why not accept the fact this is a slightly different kind of Superman, new generation of actors, director, new feel in storyline and Metropolis, and in fact is a hommage of the man of steel's adventures and not a true copy / paste job of the previous films or ideas. In the same way that the music isn't quite the same either, yet the major themes are present, albeit slightly different. I don't have any problem with that.

    Had the film received a generic score without even hinting the classic themes, that would've been way worse.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2010 edited
    I understand that this is a sightly different Superman with different actors and what not but Superman Returns was set up as a sequel to Superman II. Look, I don't mind variations on already established themes and what not but what Ottman did was just plain ordinary and any changes that he did make were unnecessary. If you want to hear how a composer handles previously existing themes and molds them into a fresh score listen to the best sequel score in the Superman franchise; Alexander Courage's Superman IV.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  3. OK, I have a question.

    Can anybody tell me more about what Superman really is? The character and stuff. I just wonder how they are able to reboot anything here. Because right now, composer assignment or not, Nolan or not, the idea to MAKE the movie at all is one of the most stupid in the history of mankind.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2010
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  4. I read it yesterday, but it didn't really help me much. I know that Clark Kent is an original idea.

    I wish there was a superhero movie that would embark more on exploring the self-humiliating public persona of the superhero (Clark Kent running away from action to get back as Superman, Bruce Wayne as a rich idiot womanizer to protect Batman). Maybe there is a hidden personality complex to it?
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2010
    Well, in Superman II Kent does sort of run away. In order for him to love Lois he has to give up his superpowers.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  5. Yet 5 minutes later he realises he has made the biggest mistake of all. rolleyes
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2010
    Erik Woods wrote
    I understand that this is a sightly different Superman with different actors and what not but Superman Returns was set up as a sequel to Superman II. Look, I don't mind variations on already established themes and what not but what Ottman did was just plain ordinary and any changes that he did make were unnecessary. If you want to hear how a composer handles previously existing themes and molds them into a fresh score listen to the best sequel score in the Superman franchise; Alexander Courage's Superman IV.

    -Erik-


    I agree for the most part, except the love theme bit, which was one of a very few highlights.
    I am extremely serious.
  6. Erik Woods wrote
    I understand that this is a sightly different Superman with different actors and what not but Superman Returns was set up as a sequel to Superman II. Look, I don't mind variations on already established themes and what not but what Ottman did was just plain ordinary and any changes that he did make were unnecessary. If you want to hear how a composer handles previously existing themes and molds them into a fresh score listen to the best sequel score in the Superman franchise; Alexander Courage's Superman IV.

    -Erik-


    I like Superman IV too Erik, a very nice bonus when I bought the FSM box, because I didn't expect it to be that good. But that was a real sequel in the series of films featuring Chris Reeve. The film itself didn't deserve such a score to be honest, consider us lucky composers rise to the challenge on occasion.

    Oh well, you don't like Returns as much as I do, that's your godgiven right... So let's end it here shall we? wink
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2010 edited
    I like the discussion we were having. I'd be very interested in reading your thoughts as to why you think Ottman's score is a competent effort! Do you think the choir was necessary? What do you think about the change in the love theme's harmonies? What about the new Luthor theme? Maybe you could explain to me just what in the Goddamn hell Ottman was trying to accomplish with his is own "love the... mot... ehhh... notes." What about the use of Williams' main theme in Ottman's score? What about the temp track love?

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2010
    By all means go ahead, but aren't we over-analyzing the mediocre music of a generally confused composer? wink
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2010
    No... I don't think so because I think half of us really like it and half of us don't like it! In any case, all the previous Superman scores (including Ottman's) will be better than what Zimmer poops out for this new film. tongue

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorDreamTheater
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2010 edited
    Guys, I'm not technically knowledgeable enough to say what I prefer over what, or which harmonies or melodies should have stayed untouched and whatnot, but the only thing I can say is I like what Ottman did with Returns, nothing more nothing less, it's miles from being a classic, but hardly a boring piece of shit that doesn't have structure.

    If you want to know, the music I like a lot is the secondary theme Ottman wrote, the one that crops up regularly in the film, but I can't say which track it's in, the Brainstorm rips which are obvious and the other Williams themes, in all their incarnations.

    NO PROBLEM WITH IT, DOES THAT COMPUTE?????

    biggrin
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2010
    Jeez!
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2010
    Erik Woods wrote
    No... I don't think so because I think half of us really like it and half of us don't like it! In any case, all the previous Superman scores (including Ottman's) will be better than what Zimmer poops out for this new film. tongue

    -Erik-


    I don't think so smile It is an interesting debate yeah; it's just that while generally the usual case is that 'x' composer pulls out 'y' approach to a film and some like that approach or not, with Ottman is that i usually feel there's not even an approach in there in the first place, he feels confused himself. Take the stunningly beautiful opening piece of 'Valkyrie' for instance; then from that point onward, it all goes to hell. As for Superman, whilst the movie was essentially a polished version of what Superman was all along, it should have remained under's Williams' glory and Ottman was a completely wrong choice for the film, judging by what he came up with.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2010
    Erik Woods wrote
    No... I don't think so because I think half of us really like it and half of us don't like it! In any case, all the previous Superman scores (including Ottman's) will be better than what Zimmer poops out for this new film. tongue

    -Erik-


    Half of us? It's just dt (and another one or 2) against everyone else wink
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2010
    So...in light of Zimmer's recent trend towards low-key, almost minimalistic music with smaller ensembles, might we be surprised by something quite new - whether excitingly fresh or ridiculously absurd - for these upcoming blockbusters like Pirates 4, Batman 3, Superman? The typical sound of those films is completely at odds with the direction Zimmer's scores have taken during the past two years since The Dark Knight. Might he end up reinventing his sound as drastically as he hasn't since TTRL and Gladiator?
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
  7. I'm afraid not really.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2010
    Christodoulides wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    No... I don't think so because I think half of us really like it and half of us don't like it! In any case, all the previous Superman scores (including Ottman's) will be better than what Zimmer poops out for this new film. tongue

    -Erik-


    Half of us? It's just dt (and another one or 2) against everyone else wink


    Half of us film music fans... not just MT members.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorRalph Kruhm
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2010 edited
    Well, if Pirates 4 wasn´t on the horizon, I would hope for Zimmer to go adventurous with Superman, but I think he will hold that back for Pirates 4. I´m not sure what exactly he will be aiming for at all, so we´ll just have to wait. My hopes for Pirates 4, however, are skyhigh, because I thought Pirates 3 was as much fun as Zimmer can be.
  8. Erik Woods wrote
    Jeez!


    I was kidding!

    For some strange reason the Ron Perlman quote from Alien Resurrection seemed appropriate...
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2010
    You quoted from a movie nobody has ever seen! wink

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  9. I remember only one quote from him it went like this, DT, correct:

    Winona Ryder: (name), did you add oil to the moonshine again?!
    Perlman: For color...
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2010
    Erik Woods wrote
    You quoted from a movie nobody has ever seen! wink

    -Erik-


    I've seen it but it's hardly Michael Caine saying 'you're only supposed to blow the bleeding doors off' or Clint Eastwood saying 'go ahead punk, make my day'.

    Point being, no one knows it.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  10. after having experienced the film for the third time smile , here's my review of Inception

    - Inception

    Enjoy the rest of the weekend
    waaaaaahhhhhhhh!!! Where's my nut? arrrghhhhhhh
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      CommentAuthorlp
    • CommentTimeDec 5th 2010
    Thomas Glorieux wrote
    after having experienced the film for the third time smile , here's my review of Inception

    - Inception

    Enjoy the rest of the weekend


    Nice review. However, you should have included the bonus score tracks that were released on the website. But it wouldn't flow with the album so well.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeDec 6th 2010
    Hans Zimmer to receive star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame

    http://filmmusicreporter.wordpress.com/ … k-of-fame/
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.