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Is it possible, possible?

General Discussions » Is it possible, possible? (Posts 1 to 13 of 13)

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      CommentAuthormoonie
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2008
    That some of us , pick music apart , so to the point that we dont enjoy it? or enjoy it like we should?


    sd smile


    I dont dare ask this at the FSM board, Ive learned my lessions.
    Goldsmith Rules!!
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2008
    By pick apart you mean criticise every minute thing?
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2008
    Niles Crane: "What's the one thing better than an exquisite meal?"
    Frasier Crane: "An exquisite meal with one tiny flaw that we can pick at all night."

    Never a truer word were spoken.
    http://www.movie-wave.net | http://facebook.com/moviewave
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      CommentAuthorBregt
    • CommentTimeFeb 21st 2008
    Good question.

    I enjoyed music when I was still reviewing, and now that I moved out of that a bit, I seems not to have changed on my opinions. Ofcourse I criticize, but that's just like a natural reaction I think, not so much a need to actually pick music apart.
    Kazoo
    • CommentAuthorMogens
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2008
    moonie wrote
    That some of us , pick music apart , so to the point that we dont enjoy it? or enjoy it like we should?


    An extremely valid question, at least for me personally, since this was the exact reasons I quit my English-studies back in the day. I was primarily in it for the literature and found that the dissect-reassemble approach favoured in literary analysis simply took away my joy of reading.

    As for film music, even though I do reviews, I have found that it luckily does not affect my appreciation of the music. As it is for Bregt, criticism and evaluation is something that comes quite naturally to me, even with scores I like. I think the answer lies in the difference between reviewing and analysing. I can also do book and movie reviews without lessening my appreciation of the works in question, but the pick-apart approach of analysis, while useful to be able to do, seems to have the opposite effect.
    Luminous beings are we.. Not this crude matter.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2008 edited
    Can someone please rephrase the question in a simpler form for dummies, early wake-ups and hangovers so that i can understand it as well though the 4 johnnies that are still in my system....please? shame wink
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2008 edited
    Demetris: Over-analysing filmscores: does it diminish, or increase the listening experience? wink

    I think it does both, depending on the score. The great scores become better as soon as you 'pick it apart' and discover all these things you wouldn't normally hear, and thus come to a deeper appreciation. It comes with a side-effect, of course, 'cause with the more simpler scores it does diminish your listening pleasure. So you should really know when to turn that off. It certainly doesn't come in handy when listening to Transformers...
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      CommentAuthorBregje
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2008
    Mogens wrote
    moonie wrote
    That some of us , pick music apart , so to the point that we dont enjoy it? or enjoy it like we should?

    An extremely valid question, at least for me personally, since this was the exact reasons I quit my English-studies back in the day. I was primarily in it for the literature and found that the dissect-reassemble approach favoured in literary analysis simply took away my joy of reading.

    Yeah, good question. I think as Mogens said that some of us have experienced that while trying to write an extensive score review it took away the fun of listening. I tried it once and got tired of listening to the score which was a shame because I enjoyed it in the first place, that's why I wanted to do the review.

    I just think there are two ways to review a score and maybe to listen to one as well. You can listen to it all the way through and then share what it did to you. That's about the experience really. Or you can study and analyze the music and tell about that.

    The tough part is where these two things cross and we have to find a balance in it. For example analyzing the technical side of the music can improve the listening experience and enjoyment. I think it is up to each of us to what degree the analysis of the music improves the experience or spoils it. Some people can only appreciate a score after picking it apart, hearing it in the movie and then understanding how brilliant it is. Others just listen to music and let it do whatever it does to a person.

    I'm often in the latter group I guess. I can enjoy music that is very simple, unoriginal and not very ingenious... sometimes it's even better to not know (that it's a rip off for instance)!

    I have been thinking about this lately as well, because I read something interesting about the study of philosophy. The writer argued that the universities did not produce philosophers but only people who knew something about philosophers. He said philosophy is a creative profession that could be compared to a composer as opposed to a musicologist. Or to a painter as opposed to an art historian / critic. I think with us film music fans, we are more on the creative side, meaning we are emotionally connected to the piece of art rather than being a reviewer. A reviewer is perhaps more on the critic side. Since this isn't all black and white of course, it's probably a mix of the two and I'm sure some people are capable of writing a good review without losing personal connection with the music and their primary experience.

    This is like another discussion we had before, about writing 'objective reviews' and if there is such a thing. Of course I think there isn't, it's always a bit of the two together.

    I'm actually curious now for Demetris' reply, how he feels about the tension between being a musicologist and a composer, if there is any. And if or how having knowledge of music affects the experience?
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      CommentAuthorBregje
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2008

    I'm actually curious now for Demetris' reply, how he feels about the tension between being a musicologist and a composer, if there is any. And if or how having knowledge of music affects the experience?

    Ehm...


    Christodoulides wrote:
    Can someone please rephrase the question in a simpler form for dummies, early wake-ups and hangovers so that i can understand it as well though the 4 johnnies that are still in my system....please? shame wink

    ... never mind!! dizzy
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2008
    shame

    Come on, one must also party shame That's a VERY good question and will get to it when i find the time 'cause i don't want to write something simple. Being in the university for 5 years during which we (still) over-analyze music to death, i have come to several conclusions about the process overall and especially about those people that do it for profession; will lay out my thoughts when i get the time and in the meantime i'll keep track of the thoughts in here, very interesting topic.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorBregje
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2008 edited
    You know Demetris, the more I think about it, the more I realise how special it is that you comment on music from your primary experience most of the time, even while you have a lot of musical knowledge!
    punk

    I prefer ''Bliss!" over a musical essay any time! cheesy
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2008
    Kaczmarek's BLISS, mate?
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeFeb 22nd 2008 edited
    This is a topic that has been brought up a few times in other fora as well, and it's still quite interesting.

    Like Demetris above, I've been at a university for a long time (first between 1996-2004 finishing my degree which lies somewhere between your Master and Ph.D., then as an assistant professor in media studies since then). This has obviously led to many sessions of analyzing things to death, including films and scores. In fact, I was very worried that the main analyses of my thesis (on film music) would kill of some of my "darlings"; some of the film scores I liked so much (E.T., BLADE RUNNER, EDWARD SCISSORHANDS). However, much to my surprise, I discovered that that didn't happen. I still put these albums on and receive great pleasure from them.

    This has led me to believe that you can "train" your analytical skill to be turned on and off. If I watch a film, for example, I can decide in advance if I'm going in to analyze it (and then stick to that throughout, with pen and paper in hand, if possible) or forget about everything and just enjoy it for what it is. This wasn't so easy before I started my studies, because I was usually envelopped by the film even if I had decided to watch it "from a distance" beforehand.

    It's made even easier when it comes to soundtrack albums, though, because my film viewing and soundtrack listening are two completely separate experiences that have nothing whatsoever to do with one another. One stems from my film interest, the other from my music interest. So I can analyze a score like E.T. as it works in the film first and then listen to it on album without ANY thought of that selfsame analysis.

    So YES - it is possible to analyze something without losing your passion, your pleasure or your "abstract" appreciation of music on album.

    Hope some of that rambling made sense. smile
    I am extremely serious.

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