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      CommentAuthorbartley
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2008
    I've noticed that many times you will hear something in the film, which either is a different version on the soundtrack, or isn't even there.
    I was wondering if this is because the soundtrack is the original version of the composer... or the film
    is different... or something. Anyone sort me out?
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2008
    Say what? confused
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorbartley
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2008
    Well, I have found that the soundtrack in the film, and the soundtrack on the CD are sometimes
    different; either the track in the film is not exactly the same as that on the CD or it's just plain not
    on it.
    know what I mean?
    • CommentAuthorMatt C
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2008
    Sometimes it's a rights issue. Scores recorded with a union orchestra can only issue out so much music before the record/film company has to pay additional fees for the more music they include on a soundtrack (they've gotten more accomodating with hour-long CD releases as well as older ones, but still). Even if a score is recorded by a buyout ensemble, the composer usually picks and chooses which music makes the cut on the soundtrack. And sometimes when the soundtrack is being processed, a re-done cue is recorded at the last minute in place of the album cues and there's no time to include that in the soundtrack. Many different issues come into play.

    Which is a shame, actually, as there is some really fantastic moments in a film score that sadly isn't included on the album. Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban has two moments of score that practically begged to be included on the album (particularly the scene where Hermione and Harry rescue Sirius on Buckbeak near the end of the film) but wasn't, and the film version of X3's main titles cue was leagues better than the album version.
    http://unsungfilmscores.blogspot.com/ -- My film/TV/game score review blog
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      CommentAuthorbartley
    • CommentTimeMar 5th 2008
    thanks Matt. That was my point; I couldn't get why they wouldn't sell the complete film soundtrack.
    But I have noticed in for example, Gladitaor (Hans Zimmer) they released a "More music from" album
    a few years after the original soundtrack was released. I am sure there are countless other examples.

    Well, it is a shame that the full scores that you hear in the background of the film aren't always released.
    Thanks for the explanation.
  1. Money. It costs more money to put more music out. Directors and editors often chop up the music pretty badly in films. If you watch listen really closely, you can hear the transitions and how they try to cover them up (with a big sound, etc). They try to arrange music on a soundtrack for "the best listening experience." That's why you often get a score that isn't presented in film order. I agree, I wish they would just release the entire score in film order, but that would cost so much because the average hollywood film often has 1.5 hours of score composed for a film, and that would require a whole extra disc for packaging. That gets pricey. If a film has a score that can fit all on one CD, it usually is low budget and wont get a release because there is no demand for that score. I mean, look at the Lord of the Rings Complete Recordings, 4 hours of score composed for each film. It was released because of demand. More music from Braveheart? More Music from Gladiator?
    • CommentAuthorMatt C
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2008
    BackToTheFutureFan wrote
    I mean, look at the Lord of the Rings Complete Recordings, 4 hours of score composed for each film. It was released because of demand. More music from Braveheart? More Music from Gladiator?


    If the LOTR were recorded in L.A. instead (rather than with the London Philharmonic Orchestra), I think the costs for re-use fees would've likely pushed the prices of the complete recordings up more.
    http://unsungfilmscores.blogspot.com/ -- My film/TV/game score review blog
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      CommentAuthorDemonStar
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2008 edited
    Matt C wrote
    BackToTheFutureFan wrote
    I mean, look at the Lord of the Rings Complete Recordings, 4 hours of score composed for each film. It was released because of demand. More music from Braveheart? More Music from Gladiator?


    If the LOTR were recorded in L.A. instead (rather than with the London Philharmonic Orchestra), I think the costs for re-use fees would've likely pushed the prices of the complete recordings up more.


    Yeah, re-use fees for scores recorded in the US are insanely high, I heard. They're much lower for scores recorded in Europe, so their chance of being released in extended form is more.

    And... YAY, my 100th post!! beer
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2008
    Also, of course, some times the entire score is rerecorded, not just a cue or two. I'm very happy that these re-arranged and/or abbreviated albums are out there. If all scores being released were complete and in chronological order, I wouldn't buy another soundtrack. I hate those.
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2008
    Thor wrote
    Also, of course, some times the entire score is rerecorded, not just a cue or two. I'm very happy that these re-arranged and/or abbreviated albums are out there. If all scores being released were complete and in chronological order, I wouldn't buy another soundtrack. I hate those.


    Really? I'd never have guessed Thor! rolleyes wink


    I do like re-arranged albums though, the likes of, for example, Williams The Fury and E.T. or Goldsmith's Our Man / In Like Flint albums are far more enjoyable and listenable than the expanded original film track versions and it is invariably these that I return to again and again.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2008
    I'm not too big a fan of re-arranged scores. I like to listen to things in order (as themes tend to develop over the course of a score). I wasn't happy with things like The Phantom Menace having Duel Of The Fates as one of the earliest tracks. Keep the highlights til the end!

    I am up for longer album versions of cues though. I'd never be able to listen to Duel Of The Fates if it was presented as it is in the film.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2008 edited
    Timmer wrote
    Really? I'd never have guessed Thor! rolleyes wink


    Well, you know....I'm not sure how notorious my viewpoints are on THIS board. smile
    I am extremely serious.
  2. Why don't you just put "I like 30 minute CDS" in your signature and get it over with?
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 6th 2008 edited
    justin boggan wrote
    Why don't you just put "I like 30 minute CDS" in your signature and get it over with?


    If that had been true, maybe I would have....
    I am extremely serious.
  3. Anthony wrote
    I'm not too big a fan of re-arranged scores. I like to listen to things in order (as themes tend to develop over the course of a score). I wasn't happy with things like The Phantom Menace having Duel Of The Fates as one of the earliest tracks. Keep the highlights til the end!

    I am up for longer album versions of cues though. I'd never be able to listen to Duel Of The Fates if it was presented as it is in the film.



    Completely agree, basically..the more music the better. But if you watch the film, the Duel of the Fates piece is so chopped up.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2008 edited
    BackToTheFutureFan wrote
    Anthony wrote
    I'm not too big a fan of re-arranged scores. I like to listen to things in order (as themes tend to develop over the course of a score). I wasn't happy with things like The Phantom Menace having Duel Of The Fates as one of the earliest tracks. Keep the highlights til the end!

    I am up for longer album versions of cues though. I'd never be able to listen to Duel Of The Fates if it was presented as it is in the film.



    Completely agree, basically..the more music the better. But if you watch the film, the Duel of the Fates piece is so chopped up.


    I don't even think the concert arrangement of Duel of the Fates was composed for any specific scene. That and Anakin's Theme were recorded for the end credits and just like the Jurassic Park album were added to the album as separate pieces. I've heard some of the unreleased material and Williams used different arrangements and timings of the Duel Theme for the lightsaber battle.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  4. Thor wrote
    Timmer wrote
    Really? I'd never have guessed Thor! rolleyes wink


    Well, you know....I'm not sure how notorious my viewpoints are on THIS board. smile


    Men speak your name in all corners of the soundtrack universe. Even on boards you have never visited your opinions upon. wink
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2008
    Erik Woods wrote
    BackToTheFutureFan wrote
    Anthony wrote
    I'm not too big a fan of re-arranged scores. I like to listen to things in order (as themes tend to develop over the course of a score). I wasn't happy with things like The Phantom Menace having Duel Of The Fates as one of the earliest tracks. Keep the highlights til the end!

    I am up for longer album versions of cues though. I'd never be able to listen to Duel Of The Fates if it was presented as it is in the film.



    Completely agree, basically..the more music the better. But if you watch the film, the Duel of the Fates piece is so chopped up.


    I don't even think the concert arrangement of Duel of the Fates was composed for any specific scene. That and Anakin's Theme were recorded for the end credits and just like the Jurassic Park album were added to the album as separate pieces. I've heard some of the unreleased material and Williams used different arrangements and timings of the Duel Theme for the lightsaber battle.

    -Erik-


    Likewise, but if there are going to be concert arrangements of cues, they could at least be placed roughly in line with their place in the film. Having Duel Of The Fates as track 2 (or something) early seemed kind of weid. It was the best cue, and it was just out of the way so quickly... confused
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2008
    franz_conrad wrote
    Thor wrote
    Timmer wrote
    Really? I'd never have guessed Thor! rolleyes wink


    Well, you know....I'm not sure how notorious my viewpoints are on THIS board. smile


    Men speak your name in all corners of the soundtrack universe. Even on boards you have never visited your opinions upon. wink


    Really? I'd love to see that.... biggrin
    I am extremely serious.
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      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2008
    Oh yes!
    The wrath of Thor is the main reason cited for old Varese albums not topping 34 minutes, and Tony Stark not pushing for complete executive leadership of The Avengers.
    ..though the latter may be another Thor.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2008
    Martijn wrote
    Oh yes!
    The wrath of Thor is the main reason cited for old Varese albums not topping 34 minutes, and Tony Stark not pushing for complete executive leadership of The Avengers.
    ..though the latter may be another Thor.



    There's one way to find out, and that is to see if our Thor can lift mighty Mjolner, for only he that is worthy may possess the power of Thor!? wink
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2008
    Anthony wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    BackToTheFutureFan wrote
    Anthony wrote
    I'm not too big a fan of re-arranged scores. I like to listen to things in order (as themes tend to develop over the course of a score). I wasn't happy with things like The Phantom Menace having Duel Of The Fates as one of the earliest tracks. Keep the highlights til the end!

    I am up for longer album versions of cues though. I'd never be able to listen to Duel Of The Fates if it was presented as it is in the film.



    Completely agree, basically..the more music the better. But if you watch the film, the Duel of the Fates piece is so chopped up.


    I don't even think the concert arrangement of Duel of the Fates was composed for any specific scene. That and Anakin's Theme were recorded for the end credits and just like the Jurassic Park album were added to the album as separate pieces. I've heard some of the unreleased material and Williams used different arrangements and timings of the Duel Theme for the lightsaber battle.

    -Erik-


    Likewise, but if there are going to be concert arrangements of cues, they could at least be placed roughly in line with their place in the film. Having Duel Of The Fates as track 2 (or something) early seemed kind of weid. It was the best cue, and it was just out of the way so quickly... confused


    This never bothered me. I like having these concert suites at the beginning of the album to help set up the thematic material you will hear during the rest of the score.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  5. Thor wrote
    franz_conrad wrote
    Thor wrote
    Timmer wrote
    Really? I'd never have guessed Thor! rolleyes wink


    Well, you know....I'm not sure how notorious my viewpoints are on THIS board. smile


    Men speak your name in all corners of the soundtrack universe. Even on boards you have never visited your opinions upon. wink


    Really? I'd love to see that.... biggrin


    They're fairly sensitive souls on that message board. You are more a legend than a person. I don't think they could look on you and live. wink
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2008
    dizzy
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2008
    Oh, I'm sure they could block Thor's deadly gaze by 36 hour long Lord Of Rings outtakes and alternates.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthordjdave
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2008
    Isn't there also an issue with the way in which the music - as composed and recoreded for the film - can get changed around?

    I've got several Film Score Monthly releases, and their liner notes are interesting because they illustrate how often music cues as recorded end up being dropped or moved about.
  6. I'm not sure that this really belongs here but anyway, here goes...

    Reading through the booklet that comes with the FSM Superman box set, it was interesting to hear that the makers of the Superman animated series have ~30 seconds of Williams' Superman main title theme. IT WAS ALL THAT THEY COULD AFFORD!!

    I wonder if they had the pick of any 30 seconds before settling on the segment they did?
    The views expressed in this post are entirely my own and do not reflect the opinions of maintitles.net, or for that matter, anyone else. http://www.racksandtags.com/falkirkbairn