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      CommentAuthorThomas
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    Most film music written today is terrible, with few scores lingering in the memory like the underwater menace of Jaws or the whimsical Moon River from Breakfast at Tiffany’s, top composers have told The Times.

    Hans Zimmer, who wrote the music for the Hollywood box-office hits Gladiator and The Lion King, dismissed the majority of contemporary screen compositions as unmemorable. “They drift around like cows grazing. So many scores sound like nobody really thought about them.”

    Anne Dudley, whose music in The Full Monty won an Oscar, and Christopher Gunning, whose score for La Vie en Rose picked up a Bafta this year, attacked the “blandness” of soundtracks.

    The public appear to agree. A recent poll of the nation’s all-time favourite film themes was dominated by scores from decades ago by composers such as John Williams (Jaws) and Ennio Morricone (The Good, the Bad and the Ugly).

    Gladiator and Pirates of the Caribbean were among five scores in the poll by Zimmer, whose Oscar-winning soundtrack for The Lion King has sold more than 15 million copies.

    “Where is the next Jerry Goldsmith?” Zimmer asked yesterday, referring to the late composer of the Stravinsky-inspired score for Planet of the Apes and the jazzy theme of Roman Polanski’s Chinatown.

    Zimmer praised the craftsmanship of Williams (Schindler’s List, Jurassic Park) and Morricone. “There’s never a lazy note from them,” he said. Gunning said: “I go to movies a lot and I find myself disappointed again and again [by] the blandness of the music. Where has melody gone in film music? What do you remember of Breakfast at Tiffany’s? Moon River by Henry Mancini. You can’t get it out of your head.”

    He said that these days scores were more likely to be written by keyboard players with computer skills learned at film schools rather than composers trained at music college.

    Dudley blamed American studios for choosing music “by committee”.


    -> http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/ … 564154.ece
  1. Thomas wrote
    ...
    The public appear to agree. A recent poll of the nation’s all-time favourite film themes was dominated by scores from decades ago by composers such as John Williams (Jaws) and Ennio Morricone (The Good, the Bad and the Ugly).


    -> http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/ … 564154.ece


    The choices of the public will always be fairly retrospective. This is a separate issue.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorDemonStar
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    Very well said, IMO! wink
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      CommentAuthorAntineutrino
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008 edited
    I’ll take you at your word for The Dark Night, Hans!
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      CommentAuthormoviescore
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008 edited
    Thomas wrote
    Hans Zimmer, who wrote the music for the Hollywood box-office hits Gladiator and The Lion King, dismissed the majority of contemporary screen compositions as unmemorable. “They drift around like cows grazing. So many scores sound like nobody really thought about them.”


    shocked

    H-y-p-o-c-r-i-c-y!

    mc
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    franz_conrad wrote
    Thomas wrote
    ...
    The public appear to agree. A recent poll of the nation’s all-time favourite film themes was dominated by scores from decades ago by composers such as John Williams (Jaws) and Ennio Morricone (The Good, the Bad and the Ugly).


    -> http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/ … 564154.ece


    The choices of the public will always be fairly retrospective. This is a separate issue.


    I agree.

    Besides, I've never really been able to embrace such sweeping generalizations in the first place, even if they may come from one of my favourite composers (Zimmer). AND I would have loved to see the quote in context.
    I am extremely serious.
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    moviescore wrote
    Thomas wrote
    Hans Zimmer, who wrote the music for the Hollywood box-office hits Gladiator and The Lion King, dismissed the majority of contemporary screen compositions as unmemorable. “They drift around like cows grazing. So many scores sound like nobody really thought about them.”


    shocked

    H-y-p-o-c-r-i-c-y!

    mc


    Yeah, as if his scores aren't like that.... rolleyes
    •  
      CommentAuthorThomas
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    Anthony wrote
    Yeah, as if his scores aren't like that.... rolleyes


    No.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    So, Hans Zimmer and Anne Dudley are moaning about the state of film music. It's one of those "laugh or cry?" moments!
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      CommentAuthormoviescore
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008 edited
    Okay, so Hans Zimmer has indeed written some scores that are strikingly original. The majority of his scores are bland, in my opinion, but he has done some outstanding ones. Backdraft, Pacific Heights, Rain Man, Driving Miss Daisy, most of his early scores presented a truly unique voice.

    What is sensational about his statement about film music in general above is that his whole "composing by committee" approach to film scoring, which many others have adopted too, is one of the single most important reasons why film music has reached this sorry state. Today, an aspiring film composer is not required to have a unique voice of his own to break into the business: he or she is required to be able to write in the "style" of other composers in order to become a member of his team. And once you are a member of that team, even if you have it in you, you are expected to write music that should blend well with all the other composers working on the project. Personality is lost in this process. What sounds as "like nobody really thought about them" is essentially a result of the way film music is written today.

    My two cents... shoot me!

    mc
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008 edited
    I think the main reason for the dip in quality is all the shortcuts that composers can take now. Synthesizers, demos, drum loops etc. etc.

    While I understand it makes their job easier, I still say the best scores are produced when a composer just sits down at a piano and plays. While doing it all with computers is easier it's also lazier.

    Surely we can point the finger at Zimmer and his minions for producing a large number of these scores. slant

    kill there you go Michael. wink
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    moviescore wrote
    Okay, so Hans Zimmer has indeed written some scores that are strikingly original. The majority of his scores are bland, in my opinion, but he has done some outstanding ones. Backdraft, Pacific Heights, Rain Man, Driving Miss Daisy, most of his early scores presented a truly unique voice.

    What is sensational about his statement about film music in general above is that his whole "composing by committee" approach to film scoring, which many others have adopted too, is one of the single most important reasons why film music has reached this sorry state. Today, an aspiring film composer is not required to have a unique voice of his own to break into the business: he or she is required to be able to write in the "style" of other composers in order to become a member of his team. And once you are a member of that team, even if you have it in you, you are expected to write music that should blend well with all the other composers working on the project. Personality is lost in this process. What sounds as "like nobody really thought about them" is essentially a result of the way film music is written today.

    My two cents... shoot me!

    mc


    No need to shoot someone for speaking the truth. Zimmer personally has written several very striking, very creative, very original scores. But the composing-by-committee thing is what's created the situation he describes. I wonder what he thought about the score when he sat and watched Vantage Point.
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      CommentAuthorMarselus
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    I don´t agree, AT ALL.
    Michael Giacchino, Philippe Rombi, John Powell, Hans Zimmer, John Williams, Chris Lennertz, James Newton Howard, Marco Beltrami, David Arnold, Brian Tyler, George Fenton, Roque Baños, Chris Tilton, Dario Marianelli, Patrick Doyle, Michael Danna, Howard Shore, Jo Yeong-Wook, Masamichi Amano, etc etc

    All this composers are writing boring sores?
    All this composers are drifting around like cows grazing?
    All this composers are bland?
    All this composers write unmemorable scores?

    All this stuff about the quality of film music today is pointless and absurd. Film music today is as good (or better) than in previous decades.
    It´s funny that Zimmer is the one to talk about it, but come on, is not the first time he speaks to get a headline.
    Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    Marselus wrote
    I don´t agree, AT ALL.
    Michael Giacchino, Philippe Rombi, John Powell, Hans Zimmer, John Williams, Chris Lennertz, James Newton Howard, Marco Beltrami, David Arnold, Brian Tyler, George Fenton, Roque Baños, Chris Tilton, Dario Marianelli, Patrick Doyle, Michael Danna, Howard Shore, Jo Yeong-Wook, Masamichi Amano, etc etc

    All this composers are writing boring sores?
    All this composers are drifting around like cows grazing?
    All this composers are bland?
    All this composers write unmemorable scores?

    All this stuff about the quality of film music today is pointless and absurd. Film music today is as good (or better) than in previous decades.
    It´s funny that Zimmer is the one to talk about it, but come on, is not the first time he speaks to get a headline.


    No, they are still coming up with interesting stuff...but there's something about the old Williams, Poledouris, Goldsmith etc. etc. scores that just makes them so much better than anything we get these days. I listened to Raiders the other day, and my God, I'd forgotten how amazing that score is. Nothing, nothing, even comes close to the standard of scores like that these days.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing with you, there's just room for improvement in todays film music.
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      CommentAuthorMarselus
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    Anthony wrote
    No, they are still coming up with interesting stuff...but there's something about the old Williams, Poledouris, Goldsmith etc. etc. scores that just makes them so much better than anything we get these days.

    Totally true. There´ll never be another Williams, Goldsmith, Poledouris, *pick any golden age composer you like*.
    But the fact that those were specially brilliant doesn´t mean film music today is almost dead (as I´ve read many many times) or poor.
    Of course there are drone, bland and uninspired scores / composers today, but they were there too in the eighties, the seventies, and the sixties.
    Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    Marselus wrote
    I don´t agree, AT ALL.
    Michael Giacchino, Philippe Rombi, John Powell, Hans Zimmer, John Williams, Chris Lennertz, James Newton Howard, Marco Beltrami, David Arnold, Brian Tyler, George Fenton, Roque Baños, Chris Tilton, Dario Marianelli, Patrick Doyle, Michael Danna, Howard Shore, Jo Yeong-Wook, Masamichi Amano, etc etc

    All this composers are writing boring sores?
    All this composers are drifting around like cows grazing?
    All this composers are bland?
    All this composers write unmemorable scores?

    All this stuff about the quality of film music today is pointless and absurd. Film music today is as good (or better) than in previous decades.
    It´s funny that Zimmer is the one to talk about it, but come on, is not the first time he speaks to get a headline.


    I agree with your sentiment but I took the original comments to mean "in major Hollywood movies". You can find wonderful film music today, but you have to make an effort to find it. If you're going to the cinema to watch the latest blockbuster, chances are it's scored by Remote Control and so falls into the criticisms as mentioned by that facility's head honcho.
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    Marselus wrote
    Anthony wrote
    No, they are still coming up with interesting stuff...but there's something about the old Williams, Poledouris, Goldsmith etc. etc. scores that just makes them so much better than anything we get these days.

    Totally true. There´ll never be another Williams, Goldsmith, Poledouris, *pick any golden age composer you like*.
    But the fact that those were specially brilliant doesn´t mean film music today is almost dead (as I´ve read many many times) or poor.
    Of course there are drone, bland and uninspired scores / composers today, but they were there too in the eighties, the seventies, and the sixties.


    Exactly. It's not dead, and Zimmer is being overly harsh. It's not as good as it was, but it's still good.
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      CommentAuthorMarselus
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    Southall wrote
    I agree with your sentiment but I took the original comments to mean "in major Hollywood movies". You can find wonderful film music today, but you have to make an effort to find it. If you're going to the cinema to watch the latest blockbuster, chances are it's scored by Remote Control and so falls into the criticisms as mentioned by that facility's head honcho.

    I agree with you also.
    But we film music lovers know where to look to find good music, I mean, of course all these Remote Control scored films are horrible; so the thing is to skip them. It´s impossible to pretend all films are scored with the same passion and finesse. There´ll always be films scored with samples and nothing even remotely interesting. But there´ll always be much more interesting music anywhere else.
    But I agree, most blockbusters are scored as if they were doing McNuggets.
    Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    RC is the fast food drive-thru of the film industry.
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      CommentAuthorMarselus
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    Agree, most of them could be a computer and not a human being, but the industry always has the last word.
    Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    So scores of today = Jordibot? biggrin
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      CommentAuthorMarselus
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    Anthony wrote
    So scores of today = Jordibot? biggrin

    Hehe....Jordi is like Jacob....he´s everywhere.
    Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    Marselus wrote
    Anthony wrote
    So scores of today = Jordibot? biggrin

    Hehe....Jordi is like Jacob....he´s everywhere.


    With a circle of gunpower around his shack? OMG, I still haven't seen 4.07 as the Sky box (the recording thing) messed up. I have to get it off the net now. crazy
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      CommentAuthorMarselus
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    Anthony wrote
    Marselus wrote
    Anthony wrote
    So scores of today = Jordibot? biggrin

    Hehe....Jordi is like Jacob....he´s everywhere.


    With a circle of gunpower around his shack? OMG, I still haven't seen 4.07 as the Sky box (the recording thing) messed up. I have to get it off the net now. crazy

    Not the best episode, but with some more answers.
    Oh, and going back to topic, an example of great TV music.
    Anything with an orchestra or with a choir....at some point will reach you
  2. PLEASE NO LOST SPOILERS rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    Antineutrino wrote
    PLEASE NO LOST SPOILERS rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes


    Yeah, please don't. I haven't seen it yet. sad
  3. Here in Germany season 3 finished a few weks ago. So please no spoiler for the complete 4th season.
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008 edited
    Wow, season 3 has beeen out on DVD in the UK for nearly 6 months! I didn't realise it was so far behind everywhere else! shocked

    Do you go straight to season 4 or do you have to wait?
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    Marselus wrote
    Anthony wrote
    Marselus wrote
    Anthony wrote
    So scores of today = Jordibot? biggrin

    Hehe....Jordi is like Jacob....he´s everywhere.


    With a circle of gunpower around his shack? OMG, I still haven't seen 4.07 as the Sky box (the recording thing) messed up. I have to get it off the net now. crazy

    Not the best episode, but with some more answers.
    Oh, and going back to topic, an example of great TV music.


    And 4.07 contains one of the best bits of scoring so far, for the scene where Desmond is eaten by the shark.
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      CommentAuthorDemonStar
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2008
    Anthony wrote
    No, they are still coming up with interesting stuff...but there's something about the old Williams, Poledouris, Goldsmith etc. etc. scores that just makes them so much better than anything we get these days. I listened to Raiders the other day, and my God, I'd forgotten how amazing that score is. Nothing, nothing, even comes close to the standard of scores like that these days.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing with you, there's just room for improvement in todays film music.


    Absolutely correct. Actually I myself was sort of thinking that. IMO a lot of the best scores are from the 1980s to 2000. Scores of this decade have been good, too, but many of them use cheap synths and electronics so much that it ruins the effect of the score. Come to think of it, some of such scores actually come from MV. But you cannot deny what Zimmer says is at least partially true. IMO Zimmer himself wrote many outstanding scores in the 90s and 2000 (Lion King, Prince of Egypt, Road to El Dorado, Gladiator) but lately his work has become somewhat synth-oriented too. But IMO he doesn't overuse them; he rather blends them in with the orchestral instruments.

    IMO what is important is giving the movie the kind of score it needs. That's why electric guitar sounds so unacceptable in 300!! wink