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  1. My review of THE BOOK THIEF, for anyone who is interested:

    http://moviemusicuk.us/2013/11/16/the-b … -williams/

    Jon
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      CommentAuthorScribe
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2013
    I found The Book Thief to be rather boring and underwhelming upon first listen. Inevitably, this means I will shortly become enthralled as the flower unfolds itself upon subsequent listens; the opposite of simplistic, paint by numbers scores that seem attractive upon first listen and yet quickly fall apart upon a more careful review.

    Also, its ironic how little commentary there is here, compared to the Zimmer thread on a new score of his.
    I love you all. Never change. Well, unless you want to!
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      CommentAuthorsdtom
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2013
    I've still yet to warm up to it. Perhaps after I see the film. My mind is still open.
    Tom
    listen to more classical music!
  2. Very nice review Jon, as always. Some points remind me on what has been said about "War Horse". I very much anticipate the score. A new score by John Williams and another "Hobbit" score by Howard Shore is some way to end this year of film music.

    Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
  3. Scribe wrote
    Also, its ironic how little commentary there is here, compared to the Zimmer thread on a new score of his.

    That's because Zimmer's scores are divisive whereas Williams' scores are (pretty much) universally liked. I kind of agree with you...my first listen to The Book Thief didn't exactly bowl me over, it's a very pleasant, classy (I keep seeing this word used to describe it and it fits), listenable score, but not an overwhelmingly memorable or engaging one.
  4. What I love about the score (I've been listening to it a lot, alternating with Days of Thunder, of all things) is that the score actually isn't as outwardly "memorable" (though I'd rather say "obvious") as many people would expect. It's a very laid back score with the themes coming directly from the intricate idea that Williams had. Sure, maybe it's not the most original score in the world, but what, I think, is great about it to me that it engages me exactly by its restraint and very precise, but still, personal execution of the whole concept.

    I, for one, like the fact that film music took a step back from writing the most obviously conventional works and it impresses me more that Williams did adapt to that in his own style. I prefer when my film music doesn't outwardly try to tell me what to feel (which is an issue I have with some of James Horner's work, but then again, all his recent evolution led him to also actually take a step back), but slowly creeps in to a final resolution tugging at the heart strings. I wish directors took that lesson from European filmmakers that not everything has to be told to the audience and hinting at certain things (Prisoners was great with that kind of even informative restraint; what I loved about that film an that score was that the whole technical value of the film was in NOT making the camera a character, but rather using it to subtly support the performances; the director there was of course Canadian) instead.

    I think I am recently going in Thor's direction in terms of picking stuff that is less emotionally and thematically obvious and preferring more restrained works with my favourite scores having a very precise control of their emotional intensity, starting (and for the most part staying) very low-key until the resolution which then, due to adding an almost romantic kind of emotional intensity becomes downright cathartic. To me the most personal music and the most convincing music is when the composer very precisely controls the emotions until he allows himself to explode. That's why, for example, I am such a huge fan of Horner's In Country. In The Book Thief Williams took the path of preferring a sense of intimacy with the drama slowly but surely creeping in and I think it was a good artistic idea. As much as I loved War Horse, I think it's Williams' best score for quite a while and even maybe since his last masterpiece which I think Memoirs of a Geisha were.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  5. PawelStroinski wrote
    I prefer when my film music doesn't outwardly try to tell me what to feel

    That makes one of us. wink
  6. Well, when I feel manipulated, I feel that it's all a fake, my suspension of disbelief doesn't work that way smile .
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  7. For me, music is either emotionally charged or it isn't. "Manipulation" just doesn't come into it at all.
  8. The thing is that it *always* is emotionally charged, whether you like it or not, emotions is the only language that music uses, that's why it's so abstract (I don't remember if I'm not paraphrasing someone here). Sure, reception of music is a very subjective (I'd even maybe say idiosyncratic), but still, it's always about nothing but emotions.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2013
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Well, when I feel manipulated, I feel that it's all a fake, my suspension of disbelief doesn't work that way smile .


    Ummm... the movies as a whole is a manipulation of emotions.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2013
    Edmund Meinerts wrote
    PawelStroinski wrote
    I prefer when my film music doesn't outwardly try to tell me what to feel

    That makes one of us. wink


    yeah
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  9. Erik Woods wrote
    PawelStroinski wrote
    Well, when I feel manipulated, I feel that it's all a fake, my suspension of disbelief doesn't work that way smile .


    Ummm... the movies as a whole is a manipulation of emotions.

    -Erik-


    Yes and no. Yeah, movies are supposed to invoke an emotional response (though seemingly nobody really knows why), but they can also make one think.

    What I am mostly talking about is just screaming at the viewer "THIS IS WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW CRY", this is particularly heavy-handed (Ron Howard, I'm talking to you here) and in bad taste. There is a huge tradition which emphasizes the performances in a way that it allows actually active interpretation of what's happening.

    Take a look at Jaws and Aliens, right? The shark and the Alien are mostly left to our imagination and that instills the real fear of us, it's about completing an image on our own that's much more emotional than literally telling us that the scene is sad.

    For example, I love how low-key are the scenes in Black Rain right after Charlie is beheaded. The whole grief of Conklin is really summarized in *one* sentence and Ridley Scott, who's usually all about visuals just takes a step back to let Douglas deliver the line in a visually static environment. Sure, film can be and SHOULD be a very immersive art, but should it tell us what we have to feel (which is how I define emotional manipulation) or just let us put the pieces together? I'm all for the latter. And I think that while The Book Thief runs a gamut of emotions, the Williams score actually trusts the listener's intelligence and imagination rather than pulling out all manipulative tricks and tell us THIS IS SAD very directly. I love that.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2013 edited
    PawelStroinski wrote

    Yes and no. Yeah, movies are supposed to invoke an emotional response (though seemingly nobody really knows why), but they can also make one think.


    Of course, but there is always some sort of an emotional response to a film and that is directly contributed to the director who is manipulating your emotions with visuals, music, sound effects, etc.

    Anyway, I love in your face music. I wish there was more of it. Why have music in the scene if it's not going to trigger an emotional response?

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  10. To make note of a seemingly irrelevant detail. I am not saying that music shouldn't trigger emotional response, but it should add to the ambiguity of a scene or things like that. I'm talking of giving the viewer a space to actually use not only his heart but also his brain. What Williams did with The Book Thief is, to me, an almost lost art in Hollywood - it's about embracing the complexity of a story/scene, not simplifying it to the umpteenth degree.
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
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      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2013
    I don't see why it should be an either/or question.

    Sometimes I like to be swept off my feet with lush Hollywood melodrama, other times I like to delve into more ambigious and/or intellectual landscapes. Also, sometimes even the most restrained art film can contain a massive emotional wallop.

    I like the fact that film can offer many different ideologies and approaches and combinations of sound and image for various effects.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2013
    As for THE BOOK THIEF, I haven't commented on that because I'm waiting for the CD to arrive. I haven't listened to the score in any other format yet (Spotify, promos or whatever). I want the CD purchase to be the virginal experience.
    I am extremely serious.
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2013
    PawelStroinski wrote
    To make note of a seemingly irrelevant detail. I am not saying that music shouldn't trigger emotional response, but it should add to the ambiguity of a scene or things like that. I'm talking of giving the viewer a space to actually use not only his heart but also his brain. What Williams did with The Book Thief is, to me, an almost lost art in Hollywood - it's about embracing the complexity of a story/scene, not simplifying it to the umpteenth degree.


    But it also depends on what type of film a composer is writing scoring. Williams isn't going to write the same score for Schindler's List the way he did for Jurassic Park. Each film brings different demands. If subtlety is ask for then the composer will deliver and visa versa. There really is no "right" way to score a picture however the only right way is for what ultimately serves the film and the directors wishes.

    What I don't like personally are directors who are afraid to let the music tell the story and to help enhance the visuals and/or manipulate your emotions.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
  11. That's true and it happens mostly because they don't trust themselves, the audience and the composer.

    I like the fair share of melodrama as well, I just wish more composers tried to give a gentle emotional push in the right direction as opposed to just going all in with no place to breathe smile
    http://www.filmmusic.pl - Polish Film Music Review Website
  12. Delivery of The Book Thief has just been pushed forward to Feburary 7th here in Germany. angry I remember when the same happened with "War Horse". Annoying!

    Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 24th 2013
    £7.49 from Amazon UK, why wait?
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
  13. Done.
    That's what friends are for!

    beer Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeNov 24th 2013
    beer smile
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorThor
    • CommentTimeDec 6th 2013 edited
    I just ordered a ticket for next year's John Williams/Boston Pops concert. Time will show if I have to back out.....again!

    http://www.bso.org/Performance/Detail/60564/

    I've done some research and see that I can get airplane tickets (Oslo-New York, New York-Boston, Boston-New York, New York-Oslo) for about 5000 NOK ($813). That could be doable somehow. However, the challenge is -- as it was this year -- to find cheap enough accomodation. Even the hostels are expensive, especially in Boston.
    I am extremely serious.
  14. My two cents about "The Book Thief", basically saying it's really very nice (if a little unremarkable), before giving it a frisbee rating*...

    http://synchrotones.wordpress.com/

    (* No, not really)
    www.synchrotones.wordpress.com | www.synchrotones.co.uk | @Synchrotones | facebook | soundcloud | youtube
  15. Star Wars music flash mob:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTHXIzHPyqE
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2014 edited
    What are the best John Williams albums that don't focus on John Williams music? (so things I presume he's done with the Boston Pops).
  16. Well, I do like his Fiddler on the Roof album. (Remastered 2001 on EMI). Jerry Bock's original songs and William's underscoring go together very well.

    My favourite recordings of other people's music are on Out of this World and By Request. Both recordings of the Boston Pops on Philips.

    Volker
    Bach's music is vibrant and inspired.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeFeb 8th 2015
    Thank you to Mike H at FSM for making me aware of this.

    I wasn't sure where to put this but this is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. ( so I put it in the Recent Viewing, JERRY GOLDSMITH and JOHN WILLIAMS threads )

    trumpet player Malcolm McNab on working with Goldsmith, Williams, Herrmann etc...

    For those who are impatient go to the 32 minute mark for the film music talk but the whole thing is great, this guy has great stories and is a fine raconteur.

    I really like his 'big up' for Bruce Broughton too.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeFeb 8th 2015
    BTW, it's the masters 83rd birthday today. beer
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt