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JOHN WILLIAMS
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- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Southall wrote
I'll take all three of them over Jedi, I think.
Goodness no! Give me Jabba's theme, the Ewok's theme, Luke and Leia's theme, The Sail Barge Battle finale theme, Into the Trap, etc... hell the whole scores blows away anything and everything written for the prequels... with the exception of Duel of the Fates. Really, that's the only theme that rivals the original trilogy.
As for you, Anthony... sounds old? Jesus!
I think you are being brainwashed by the some of the worst film music recordings of all time that have come out in the past ten years or so. There are exceptions but I want to read what you think are far superior recordings to Tomlinson's Raiders recording.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorAnthony
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
GAAAAH, IT SOUNDS OLD!!!
Anyway, what is the best JW theme...hmm...I think it probably is the main Star Wars one tbh...
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- CommentAuthorTimmer
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Erik Woods wrote
Southall wrote
I'll take all three of them over Jedi, I think.
Goodness no! Give me Jabba's theme, the Ewok's theme, Luke and Leia's theme, The Sail Barge Battle finale theme, Into the Trap, etc... hell the whole scores blows away anything and everything written for the prequels... with the exception of Duel of the Fates. Really, that's the only theme that rivals the original trilogy.
As for you, Anthony... sounds old? Jesus! I think you are being brainwashed by the some of the worst film music recordings of all time that have come out in the past ten years or so. There are exceptions but I want to read what you think are far superior recordings to Tomlinson's Raiders recording.
-Erik-
Totally agree with you on JEDI Erik, and lets not forget Williams sublime choral writing for the Emperor which is amongst the most sinisterly wicked ever written for film, and do I even have to mention the achingly brief but incredible choral for Luke and Vader's duel.
On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt -
- CommentAuthorMartijn
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
You're all daft.
Anthony for his 'old' hangup (it's just a phase, Tony. In ten years time you will come to think as we do)
Southall for prefering the prequel scores and...well, basically everything.
Erik for prefering Phantom of the three prequels.
Steven for liking The War Of teh Worlds.
And Timmer so he won't feel left out.
I'm the only sane one here!'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentAuthorAnthony
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Oh God, we all hate John Williams! 
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- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008 edited
Timmer wrote
Erik Woods wrote
Southall wrote
I'll take all three of them over Jedi, I think.
Goodness no! Give me Jabba's theme, the Ewok's theme, Luke and Leia's theme, The Sail Barge Battle finale theme, Into the Trap, etc... hell the whole scores blows away anything and everything written for the prequels... with the exception of Duel of the Fates. Really, that's the only theme that rivals the original trilogy.
As for you, Anthony... sounds old? Jesus! I think you are being brainwashed by the some of the worst film music recordings of all time that have come out in the past ten years or so. There are exceptions but I want to read what you think are far superior recordings to Tomlinson's Raiders recording.
-Erik-
Totally agree with you on JEDI Erik, and lets not forget Williams sublime choral writing for the Emperor which is amongst the most sinisterly wicked ever written for film, and do I even have to mention the achingly brief but incredible choral for Luke and Vader's duel.
Bingo! Right on, Timmer. There is more emotion poured into those two moments then ANY in the prequels. But then again, we and I'm sure Williams too actually cared about the characters in the original trilogy. That's why most of the music in the prequel trilogy falls flat emotionally.
However, I will say that since Sith was a much better prequel film than the other two and finally allows the audience to have some emotional connection to the characters Williams I think was finally able to display those emotions in his music. "Anakin's Betrayal" and "Anakin's Dark Deeds" really hits those emotional buttons but I still don't think they rival anything written during the climactic moments of Jedi.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorAntineutrino
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Erik Woods wrote
Antineutrino wrote
No, not really. But what I dislike a bit is that he re-uses a theme from ROTLA (from Map Room: Dawn) with obviously no connection to the new film (much like the music from ANH and ESB in Episode 3).
How do you know... have you seen the film?
No, but Indy 4 bad guys = russians, Raiders bad guys = nazis. Even when the setting is south america in the 50's there won't be nazi soldiers??
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- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Martijn wrote
Erik for prefering Phantom of the three prequels.
It's the ONLY prequel score that actually SOUNDS and feels like a Star Wars score.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorAnthony
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
I think the emotion is there in TPM, but as there's nothing to go with it on screen it just leaves the listener thinking ''what?''. -
- CommentAuthorAnthony
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Antineutrino wrote
Erik Woods wrote
Antineutrino wrote
No, not really. But what I dislike a bit is that he re-uses a theme from ROTLA (from Map Room: Dawn) with obviously no connection to the new film (much like the music from ANH and ESB in Episode 3).
How do you know... have you seen the film?
No, but Indy 4 bad guys = russians, Raiders bad guys = nazis. Even when the setting is south america in the 50's there won't be nazi soldiers??
I'll miss the Nazis too...BUT RUSKIES!! 
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- CommentAuthorTim (not timmer)
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Evidently not as you've sent us to a broken Link!
As for the prequals, I agree with Erik, Phantom is the best, by a long stretch, whether it beats the original trilogy, I think is unlikely, but I'm slightly biased as Phantom menace was my first score, so I can't judge reasonably.
As for War of the worlds, its good, just listen to confrontation with ogilvy! (or any other tracks for that matter, but thats the standout for me!)
There we go, discussion ended! Look away...nothing to see here...
If in doubt, let the wookie win -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Antineutrino wrote
Erik Woods wrote
Antineutrino wrote
No, not really. But what I dislike a bit is that he re-uses a theme from ROTLA (from Map Room: Dawn) with obviously no connection to the new film (much like the music from ANH and ESB in Episode 3).
How do you know... have you seen the film?
No, but Indy 4 bad guys = russians, Raiders bad guys = nazis. Even when the setting is south america in the 50's there won't be nazi soldiers??
INDY IV SPOILERS AHEAD
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Have you considered that that music MIGHT be associated with the Ark itself since that music was originally written for the discovery of the Ark's location in Raiders? Rumors are that the opening scene in Crystal Skull is in the warehouse where the Ark is now kept so the music mirrors the Raiders music because the new scene in the Skull almost mirrors that scene in Raiders.
Look, I too was turned off by the appearance of that music in the Skull score but let's wait until we hear the piece in context before rip Williams and Spielberg a new one.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorAntineutrino
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008 edited
Anthony wrote
Antineutrino wrote
Erik Woods wrote
Antineutrino wrote
No, not really. But what I dislike a bit is that he re-uses a theme from ROTLA (from Map Room: Dawn) with obviously no connection to the new film (much like the music from ANH and ESB in Episode 3).
How do you know... have you seen the film?
No, but Indy 4 bad guys = russians, Raiders bad guys = nazis. Even when the setting is south america in the 50's there won't be nazi soldiers??
I'll miss the Nazis too...BUT RUSKIES!!
Hmmm, maybe this is a reference to the map room scene like the ark theme in Last Crusade...
That would explain a lot. On the other hand many have guessed what the meaning of the re-used ANH/ESB music in Episode 3 was before the film came out. And the answer was: none!
EDIT: a few seconds too late -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008 edited
Antineutrino wrote
Hmmm, maybe this is a reference to the map room scene like the ark theme in Last Crusade...
That would explain a lot. On the other hand many have guessed what the meaning of the re-used ANH/ESB music in Episode 3 was before the film came out. And the answer was: none!
EDIT: a few seconds too late
Aha... but I'm sure it had some connection. However, what we ultimately saw was not what Williams originally wrote his music to.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorMartijn
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Erik Woods wrote
There is more emotion poured into those two moments then ANY in the prequels. But then again, we and I'm sure Williams too actual cared about the characters in the original trilogy. That's why most of the music in the prequel trilogy falls flat emotionally.
However, I will say that since Sith was a much better prequel film than the other two and finally allows the audience to have some emotional connection to the characters Williams I think was finally able to display those type of emotional in his music. "Anakin's Betrayal" and "Anakin's Dark Deeds" really hits those emotional buttons but I still don't think they rival anything written during the climactic moments of Jedi.
A most succinct and adroit summary, Erik.
And you're quite rigt: if the tone in Sith hadn't been as close to the public Star Wars perception and empathy with its universe and its characters as it was, the score would have not been as remarkable as it feels like now. And in that vein you are right that the most accessible prequel score on its own merits is the Phantom Menace one, even when the film didn't live up to expectations.
Tim (not timmer)
Evidently not as you've sent us to a broken Link!
Shit!
No, well, the link is fine per se, but the site won't allow hotlinking.
Oh well.'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn -
- CommentAuthorAntineutrino
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Erik Woods wrote
Antineutrino wrote
Hmmm, maybe this is a reference to the map room scene like the ark theme in Last Crusade...
That would explain a lot. On the other hand many have guessed what the meaning of the re-used ANH/ESB music in Episode 3 was before the film came out. And the answer was: none!
EDIT: a few seconds too late
Aha... but I'm sure it had some connection. However, what we ultimately saw was not what Williams originally wrote his music to.
I can't see what the reference should have been. Where should music from the fight scene with Vader fit in Episode 3? -
- CommentAuthorAnthony
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
We had a reference to the Ark theme in Crusade didn't we? But that was just an easter egg wasn't it...???
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- CommentAuthorAntineutrino
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
No, in the Venice catacombs was a picture of the ark on the wall. -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008 edited
Antineutrino wrote
No, in the Venice catacombs was a picture of the ark on the wall.
Right. Kinda like seeing Yoda in E.T. and hearing Yoda's theme.
IMHO, the ark joke in Crusade is the second funniest scene in the entire trilogy. The first being Marion slugging Indy with the mirror on the boat.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorAntineutrino
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
IMHO, some of the jokes in Last Crusade are a bit too silly. -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Antineutrino wrote
Erik Woods wrote
Antineutrino wrote
Hmmm, maybe this is a reference to the map room scene like the ark theme in Last Crusade...
That would explain a lot. On the other hand many have guessed what the meaning of the re-used ANH/ESB music in Episode 3 was before the film came out. And the answer was: none!
EDIT: a few seconds too late
Aha... but I'm sure it had some connection. However, what we ultimately saw was not what Williams originally wrote his music to.
I can't see what the reference should have been. Where should music from the fight scene with Vader fit in Episode 3?
I can't see it either because the film was heavily edited AFTER the scoring sessions. Apparently, there was quite a bit cut from the Anakin vs. Obi-Won fight.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Antineutrino wrote
IMHO, some of the jokes in Last Crusade are a bit too silly.
Sure, but that Ark joke was dead on!
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorjedizim
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Erik Woods wrote
IMHO, the ark joke in Crusade is the second funniest scene in the entire trilogy. The first being Marion slugging Indy with the mirror on the boat.
-Erik-
TOTALLY agree with you here...the two most humorous moments in all 3 films.---- Well, I wouldn't argue that it wasn't a no holds barred, adrenaline fueled thrill ride. But, there is no way you can perpetrate that amount of carnage and mayhem and not incur a considerable amount of paperwork. -
- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Erik Woods wrote
Southall wrote
I'll take all three of them over Jedi, I think.
Goodness no! Give me Jabba's theme, the Ewok's theme, Luke and Leia's theme, The Sail Barge Battle finale theme, Into the Trap, etc... hell the whole scores blows away anything and everything written for the prequels... with the exception of Duel of the Fates. Really, that's the only theme that rivals the original trilogy.
To be honest there's no reason for me to argue, because in my world we're talking minutiae. I think all six scores are absolutely wonderful and disagreeing with you is only serving to suggest I don't like Jedi - which I do. It's brilliant. -
- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Timmer wrote
Totally agree with you on JEDI Erik, and lets not forget Williams sublime choral writing for the Emperor which is amongst the most sinisterly wicked ever written for film, and do I even have to mention the achingly brief but incredible choral for Luke and Vader's duel.
That latter part is, I think, the single finest musical moment in the entire Star Wars saga. -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Southall wrote
Erik Woods wrote
Southall wrote
I'll take all three of them over Jedi, I think.
Goodness no! Give me Jabba's theme, the Ewok's theme, Luke and Leia's theme, The Sail Barge Battle finale theme, Into the Trap, etc... hell the whole scores blows away anything and everything written for the prequels... with the exception of Duel of the Fates. Really, that's the only theme that rivals the original trilogy.
To be honest there's no reason for me to argue, because in my world we're talking minutiae. I think all six scores are absolutely wonderful and disagreeing with you is only serving to suggest I don't like Jedi - which I do. It's brilliant.
Agreed! I love them all... well, sort of. IMHO, Attack of the Clones is not very good. There are some solid moments but overall it's pretty friggin' weak.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
I even love AOTC... the love theme, the Chase Through Coruscant music, the first appearance of the Imperial March. -
- CommentAuthorErik Woods
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Southall wrote
I even love AOTC... the love theme, the Chase Through Coruscant music, the first appearance of the Imperial March.
I'll give you the first two but The Imperial March was all wrong. Completely and utterly wrong!
Anyway, besides the concert version of the love theme and the first chase... what else does the score deliver? Nothing.
-Erik-host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS! -
- CommentAuthorSouthall
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Loads! That is an album I can comfortably sit and listen to without ever being tempted to skip forwards. -
- CommentAuthorAnthony
- CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
Erik Woods wrote
besides the concert version of the love theme and the first chase... what else does the score deliver? Nothing.
Completely agree. 
