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  1. I thought you liked the Crystal motif? It's my favourite part of the score... and for me it's interesting to compare the various artifact themes - 'Medallion', 'Cross of Corazon', 'Holy Grail', 'Ark' and 'Crystal' and hear such distinct properties in each. Where CRYSTAL SKULL doesn't quite win me over is in some of the action setpieces.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  2. Martijn wrote
    At the end of the day it's probably just a coincidence, guys.


    It definitely could be. And the motif could mean something entirely different in the film, which would make me look pretty silly. I do think at the moment the alignment of dramatic representation, musical resemblance (melody, instrumentation), timing (WOTW is recent enough to be remembered by both director and composer) and composer/director pairing do give me a little room to say - 'HEY, there might be something here, you know.' tongue
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
    franz_conrad wrote
    I thought you liked the Crystal motif? It's my favourite part of the score... and for me it's interesting to compare the various artifact themes - 'Medallion', 'Cross of Corazon', 'Holy Grail', 'Ark' and 'Crystal' and hear such distinct properties in each. Where CRYSTAL SKULL doesn't quite win me over is in some of the action setpieces.


    I like the Crystal Skull motif but I'm going to have to explore what you wrote above. My mind might change if what you said is correct. My response in my last post is geared more towards the blatant use of WOTW music in "Hidden Treasure and the City of Gold" Once the cue heads in the WOTW direct I immediately flip to the next track. Again, this is something I NEVER do with the original trilogy.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
    Meh... I would think no more or less than perceived likenesss between the Superman, Star Wars and E.T. themes.... but I've never heard anyone discuss the "alien link" there!
    I think you are reading wayyyyy too much into this, Michael. smile
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
  3. Agreed about the more direct temp track lift. It's blatant in a way I usually associate with James Horner. 'City of Gold' is a strange mixture of Lucas and Spielberg influence on the soundtrack. With Lucas, if there's a temp track that he really likes, it's quoted verbatim until it no longer works. With Spielberg, a re-orchestrated re-composed version of the piece accompanies the scene (see also 'Anderton's Great Escape'), and it usually survives to make the album. I wish they'd let Williams get away from WAR OF THE WORLDS a bit more. Take out the thundering timpani, screaming woodwinds and replace it with brass flourishes and it's got neither the gravitas of the original piece nor enough life of its own.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  4. Martijn wrote
    I think you are reading wayyyyy too much into this, Michael. smile


    It's a character flaw that has served me well in the past. It does me credit, though I admit it could be made to serve the (Lucas) Empire. cool
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
  5. Erik Woods wrote
    franz_conrad wrote
    I thought you liked the Crystal motif? It's my favourite part of the score... and for me it's interesting to compare the various artifact themes - 'Medallion', 'Cross of Corazon', 'Holy Grail', 'Ark' and 'Crystal' and hear such distinct properties in each. Where CRYSTAL SKULL doesn't quite win me over is in some of the action setpieces.


    I like the Crystal Skull motif but I'm going to have to explore what you wrote above. My mind might change if what you said is correct.


    You may want to check out CLOSE ENCOUNTERS again on your way past WAR OF THE WORLDS. wink
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorNautilus
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008 edited
    There are a 12 minutes opening action piece...where is the music? tongue

    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/indiana_jones_4/

    26 fresh

    10 rotten
    •  
      CommentAuthorNautilus
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008 edited
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
    Nautilus wrote
    There are a 12 minutes opening action piece...where is the music? tongue

    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/indiana_jones_4/

    26 fresh

    10 rotten


    Maybe it's not scored... rolleyes
  6. franz_conrad wrote
    There's a very interesting connection between WAR OF THE WORLDS and this new INDY score, and not just the 'Intersection Scene' music.

    Take a listen to the WAR OF THE WORLDS 'Prologue'. Not long before Morgan Freeman's narration enters, before the 4/4 rhythm picks up, we begin to hear upper register electronic phrases that are reminiscent of the descending motif from 'Call of the Crystal'. Then just after the rhythm picks up in the strings, we hear an ascending arpeggio, and then the electronic instrumentation features a 5-note motif. I wish I could give a timecode, but I only have a dialogue free version of the track at hand. This motif appears throughout the 'Prologue', and appears later in the 'Epilogue'.

    Anyway, listen to the upper-register motif ('The Call') from 'Call of the Crystal', about 0:35-0:45 (the second statement). The shape is VERY similar - though a little more developed - than that upper register electronic motif from WAR OF THE WORLDS. The tone colour is reminiscent as well. It's a motif that's used quite distinctly from the rising tritone bass motif that opens 'Call of the Crystal'. (That rising tritone motif seems like the opening of the Ark theme upside down.)

    Fast forward to 'The Departure', 1:58-2:03. The 'call' half of the Crystal music is given a resplendant statement for trumpet, but it's shape has been simplified. It's now almost identical to the motif from the 'Prologue' of WAR OF THE WORLDS. *** POTENTIAL SPOILER**** Perhaps another strong hint that what is departing is integral to the identity of the Crystal, and has a link to the aggressors of WAR OF THE WORLDS? *** END POT. SPOILER ****


    On that WAR OF THE WORLDS reference: The timecode for the album version of 'Prologue' is 1:17-1:19.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
    franz_conrad wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    franz_conrad wrote
    I thought you liked the Crystal motif? It's my favourite part of the score... and for me it's interesting to compare the various artifact themes - 'Medallion', 'Cross of Corazon', 'Holy Grail', 'Ark' and 'Crystal' and hear such distinct properties in each. Where CRYSTAL SKULL doesn't quite win me over is in some of the action setpieces.


    I like the Crystal Skull motif but I'm going to have to explore what you wrote above. My mind might change if what you said is correct.


    You may want to check out CLOSE ENCOUNTERS again on your way past WAR OF THE WORLDS. wink


    If you are talking about Close encounters references in WotW... yeah, a huge influence there.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
    sleep
    •  
      CommentAuthorNautilus
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
    Anthony wrote
    sleep


    WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAake up!
    • CommentAuthorAnthony
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
    No! Stop going over the top with analysing the score when no one here has even seen the movie!! sleep
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
    I would enjoy an in-depth analysis of thematical dramatic similarities between At World's End and Crystal Skull and a detailed hypothesis on a reciprocal musical influence assuming mutual co-composers.
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
    Martijn wrote
    I would enjoy an in-depth analysis of thematical dramatic similarities between At World's End and Crystal Skull and a detailed hypothesis on a reciprocal musical influence assuming mutual co-composers.


    Don't go there pal slant
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorNautilus
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008 edited
    Martijn wrote
    I would enjoy an in-depth analysis of thematical dramatic similarities between At World's End and Crystal Skull and a detailed hypothesis on a reciprocal musical influence assuming mutual co-composers.


    At world's End is my all time favourite score. Nothing it's better than it. tongue

    And At world's End is a far most enjoyable, more energic score than Crystal Skull.

    But I have when my generation will be in your "seat"
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartijn
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
    Nautilus wrote
    But I have when my generation will be in your "seat"


    I have too!
    Viva my seat! Viva your generation!
    Talkin' about!
    'no passion nor excitement here, despite all the notes and musicians' ~ Falkirkbairn
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
    Nautilus wrote
    Martijn wrote
    I would enjoy an in-depth analysis of thematical dramatic similarities between At World's End and Crystal Skull and a detailed hypothesis on a reciprocal musical influence assuming mutual co-composers.


    At world's End is my all time favourite score. Nothing it's better than it. tongue

    And At world's End is a far most enjoyable, more energic score than Crystal Skull.

    But I have when my generation will be in your "seat"


    wink

    Just you wait till 20 years from now when they make POTC4. You'll be saying "this music isn't as good as anything in the original trilogy!" (even though it is), and the kids will be saying "this is rubbish! I much prefer the music to the Hyper-Monkey-Tanktop-Parade video game" and you'll be shaking your head, saying "Just wait a few years son... just wait a few years."
    •  
      CommentAuthorbartley
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
    Southall wrote
    Nautilus wrote
    Martijn wrote
    I would enjoy an in-depth analysis of thematical dramatic similarities between At World's End and Crystal Skull and a detailed hypothesis on a reciprocal musical influence assuming mutual co-composers.


    At world's End is my all time favourite score. Nothing it's better than it. tongue

    And At world's End is a far most enjoyable, more energic score than Crystal Skull.

    But I have when my generation will be in your "seat"


    wink

    Just you wait till 20 years from now when they make POTC4. You'll be saying "this music isn't as good as anything in the original trilogy!" (even though it is), and the kids will be saying "this is rubbish! I much prefer the music to the Hyper-Monkey-Tanktop-Parade video game" and you'll be shaking your head, saying "Just wait a few years son... just wait a few years."


    Hate to break in, but POTC4 is not that far down the road!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
    bartley wrote
    Southall wrote
    Nautilus wrote
    Martijn wrote
    I would enjoy an in-depth analysis of thematical dramatic similarities between At World's End and Crystal Skull and a detailed hypothesis on a reciprocal musical influence assuming mutual co-composers.


    At world's End is my all time favourite score. Nothing it's better than it. tongue

    And At world's End is a far most enjoyable, more energic score than Crystal Skull.

    But I have when my generation will be in your "seat"


    wink

    Just you wait till 20 years from now when they make POTC4. You'll be saying "this music isn't as good as anything in the original trilogy!" (even though it is), and the kids will be saying "this is rubbish! I much prefer the music to the Hyper-Monkey-Tanktop-Parade video game" and you'll be shaking your head, saying "Just wait a few years son... just wait a few years."


    Hate to break in, but POTC4 is not that far down the road!


    Don't spoil my excellent analogy with facts!
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008 edited
    bartley wrote

    Hate to break in, but POTC4 is not that far down the road!


    That's about the time i'll probably leave this forum.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorbartley
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
    Christodoulides wrote
    bartley wrote

    Hate to break in, but POTC4 is not that far down the road!


    That's about the time i'll probably leave this forum.


    LOL. No, I'm not lobbying for this one, just stating a hard cold maybe...
    I really hope the don't though. The only thing I could look forward to would
    be another Hans Zimmer score... but I doubt he would surpasse At World's End.
    In short, it would be a mess.
    •  
      CommentAuthorNautilus
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
    bartley wrote

    be another Hans Zimmer score... but I doubt he would surpasse At World's End.
    In short, it would be a mess.


    He never will surpass At world's End. Is Zimmer's Empire Strikes back tongue

    NP:Indy 4

    "Whirl thought the academe" is growing on me. (all what a cur unfocused can grow on you)
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
    Nautilus wrote


    NP:Indy 4



    Yeah? We will see you around that time wink
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008 edited
    Christodoulides wrote
    Nautilus wrote


    NP:Indy 4



    Yeah? We will see you around that time wink


    biggrin

    Maybe I'll join you and "leave this forum" wink
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    •  
      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008
    Ah, i am afraid many will dear friend.

    Many will wink
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    •  
      CommentAuthorNautilus
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2008 edited
    Christodoulides wrote
    Nautilus wrote


    NP:Indy 4



    Yeah? We will see you around that time wink


    I didn't understand what you said sad

    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/indiana_jones_4/

    34 fresh
    11 rotten
  7. Jeff Bond adds a review that is particularly damning from our perspective. He says the score is mixed so low that it barely makes an impact except for when the old themes are quoted.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am