JOHN WILLIAMS

I wouldn´t sign this one. As I said, I don´t like the cacophonic action stuff too well, but the themes are very nice, and some tracks are just amazing (throughout the whole prequels). The new trilogy is okay, it just can not compete with the classics, which is only one of many reasons the Star Wars Saga score is less beloved by me (as a whole) than the LOTR Saga score (Episodes IV to VI alone would be a different matter, but we always talked about the saga as a whole).

I noticed 2 things from Star Wars, maybe it's just me:

1-The rebel fanfarre stars with the same march of the Imperial March.

2-A new hope sounds more Williams doing Korgngold, But Empire and Return has more Williams Style.

But if you actual LISTEN to the Greivous action cue there is a 9 note motif running through out it. It's not a prominent as lets say some of his early 80's action material but there is a motif there.

And just listen to his Harry Potter material. The most of the action music harks back to his style of the early 80's.

-Erik-

"Quidditch, Third Year" comes very close to matching his thematic writing style of the 80s. The whole thing is pretty much the Double Trouble theme on crack, but I'm not a big fan of stuff like "The Quidditch Match". It is thematic, but it also seems much less focused, dropping the theme suddenly and having a quick fanfare and cymbal crashes along with a flute sliding up the octave. I like it in a technical sense, but it doesn't do as much for me aesthetically.

Believe me Erik, I'm not so dense that I don't know what mickey mousing is, and I simply don't like it -- on or off screen. If it's used for a more comedic approach, it's easier for me to stomach (Indy`s Very First Adventure or The Ultimate War for example), but I rarely like it in dramatic scenes like The Quidditch Match, especially when he's got such a great theme that he doesn't need to keep dropping in favor of the mouse.

Edit: Let me clarify my feelings on mickey mousing before I work myself into a bind. Some composers are really skilled at working it into the surrounding music. Williams used to be very skilled at that, but anymore a lot of these chaotic moments seem to come out of left field. <-- That's what I don't like. When the music comes out of nowhere. Mickey mousing doesn't always have to be done that way.

It makes me feel dirty to talk about Williams this way, because he will always be one of my top five composers. I just don't enjoy his modern way of scoring action. I enjoy his recent dramatic scores -- Memoirs of a Geisha, A.I., Angela's Ashes, etc -- more than I do many other composers. His thematic writing is sill just as strong as it was years ago.

I totally agree here.

You're right, I am. I'll give you a 10 second head start though... which is more than Anderton ever had.

I depends what movie the score is from. IMHO, that cue from Star Wars is horrible. It might have worked somewhere else but in Star Wars it sucked. As for War of the Worlds... those are very different types of action cues. Very rythmic based, lots of percussion and carefully composed an orchestrated. That Pursuit track seems lazy. I'm not even a fan of Jango's Escape. That one is all over the place, too. But once it hits the 1:30 mark then I can finally recall what was going on in the film...

Ben and Jango falling over the side of the landing platform and the music matches that well... the tumbling strings and horns for the fall, the suspense string as Jango's trying to hold on, Jango's letting Ben Kenobi loose, Ben's swinging to safety, Jango getting back to the ship, Ben arriving back on the platform just before Jango Escapes... and there is the quite satisfying fanfare heard at the 2:33 just as Jango' lifts off... now that's the type of mickey mousing from Williams that I like. Sure, it could have been more thematic, but it was a fist fight scene... what more do you want. I mean, "Airplane Flight" in Raiders was stylistically similar.

BTW, I love "Zam The Assassin And The Chase Through Coruscant" and "Love Pledge and the Arena" Love Pledge is cue that returns to Williams' 80's stlye but Lucas cut it out. As for "The Chase Through Coruscant" - instead of a theme per se Williams creates a continuing rythmic passage that carries the cue. It returns time and time again just like a melody or motif would. I think that's a work of genius!

You know, I find that two of Williams' more thematic action cues have been dumped in the past 10 years or so. "The Hunt" from The Lost World and "The Arena" from ATOC. Isn't that strange. Williams tries to do the old school thing and even Lucas and Spielberg don't want anything to do with it.

Bizarre.

As for my taste... I love all kinds of action... and like I said, while I would love to see Williams go back to that more thematic approach to action scoring in the 80's... he still manages to add a melody or motif in his action cues while at the same time creating a new sound and style. It's not everyones tastes but I can appreciate what he is doing.

-Erik-

Oooh... I'm not trying to change your mind. But I guess I do tend to pay more attention to Williams' work more so than others. So, I guess I might hear more than the average film music fan or non Williams fanatic.

But if you are willing to go back to some of those scores we mentioned and really absorb them where you hear something that you have never heard before then that only benefits you... not me.

-Erik-

Oooooooo... I forgot about The Lost World. That's definitely one of Williams best action scores where he took a completely different approach to what most were expecting. I do also really enjoy War of the Worlds as well. It's an angry, powerful score. Like you said, it was fresh and interesting side to Williams. Both scores have a consistent sound to them and every note seems to belong unlike some of the other stuff I mentioned.

Like you said, it all comes down to personal tastes.

Goldsmith. No, Williams. No wait, Goldsmith..... shit, I dunno.

No need to be the best, because there's an other best you don't know yet or ever will.

Matt.. I responded to this exact question in the Now Playing Thread 3 days ago

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Okay, I just return from an ironing session (don´t ask) which I used to listen to some action stuff from Episodes 2 & 3. Let´s say that I, indeed, discovered some things I didn´t get before.

First Episode 2. I started with Zam the assassin and the Chase through Coruscant, and man, that was hard.

Sorry, but that continuing rythmic passage didn´t carry me, it unnerved me. I can see why you think this is a nice idea (or even genius, if you want), but the whole track is by far the worst experience of the whole album. It has ever been for me, and this will not change, especially after I tried to give it a very focused shot. I will agree that rhythm can carry an action track, but that is exactly what Hooper did in Potter V, but somehow, that didn´t end being called genius. Chase through Coruscant is just hectic, complex, atonal, and carries nothing but a feeling of uncomfort for me. I can see where you´re coming from, but I will always appreciate rhythm in a much simpler fashion like Hooper did.

I have no idea why you bash that very short track so very hard. It is just a short burst of action, not more, so there was hardly any time to develop a recurring anything, but I don´t like it either.

I never said that I liked that one.

But I must say that Jango´s Escape was indeed very reminiscent of the old 80s style, even if it was exactly that kind of action music which I hate.

What I like, or even love, are parts of The Arena. That track harkens back to the good old ways of Star Wars action, in times even coming very close to it. The best action track in Episode 2.

Then, I went on to Episode 3 to get your fascination for anything Grievous. I listened to all three tracks with Grievous´ name in it back to back, and that was were I finally got it and discovered his theme. I never would have noticed it otherwise, I think, it´s just too complex (for me). I did notice the motif before, of course, but I never would have thought that to be a theme. It was only on that back-to-back listening that I noticed its continuing return.

What I like about it is the fact that it kind of derives from the Droid Army Theme, just being far more complex, which is fitting if you think about what kind of character it represents. Since I´m a continuity junkee, as you know, I will give you that. Williams did a very, very good thing here. I can even understand why it was made so unaccessable. Grievous is neither droid nor human, and he´s a very complex lifeform with a very complex body. The music fits him perfectly. That doesn´t, however, mean that I like to listen to that theme, but I see it now as a similarly successful approach as War of the Worlds. I don´t have to like it, if it works.

So, thanks for pointing that out to me.

I still appreciate a much more thematic approach to action scenes, but I can see a bit better where your understanding and appreciation for the more complex stuff comes from.

Maybe I will give Williams´Potter scores and some of his more complex stuff like War of the Worlds a relisten in some time and tell you more about it, too.

For now, that´s it.

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Ralph Kruhm, Secretary of Simplicity