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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009
    William wrote
    Steven wrote
    (Of course the original theme is still the best thing about the JP scores, but it's nice to hear it in full only at the end on the Lost World album.)


    So you're saying you enjoy the fact that the main theme was generally held off till the end of the score? dizzy moon


    I enjoy the awesomeness of the score, that's what I enjoy. I don't "enjoy" the fact that the theme is held off until the end so much as I think it's appropriate.

    As I said in the NP thread, if I want to hear the main theme played throughout the score, I'll listen to the first one. Perhaps once you get over the fact that this ISN'T the first score, you might be able to enjoy a bloody good Williams action score with a bloody good theme!
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009
    Martijn wrote
    I want my own brontosaur.


    Jesus!?
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009
    Steven wrote
    I'd prefer a Lost World complete. The action music in that score far outshines the action music from the first in my opinion. (Of course the original theme is still the best thing about the JP scores, but it's nice to hear it in full only at the end on the Lost World album.)


    punk beer
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009
    Erik Woods wrote
    William wrote
    Steven wrote
    (Of course the original theme is still the best thing about the JP scores, but it's nice to hear it in full only at the end on the Lost World album.)


    So you're saying you enjoy the fact that the main theme was generally held off till the end of the score? dizzy moon


    The way it should be!

    -Erik-


    Not in my opinion.
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      CommentAuthorBobdH
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009
    By waiting till the end of the film/album by showing off that theme, makes it so much more powerfull. Besides, it wouldn't have fit before. I think Williams made all the right choices for The Lost World and I love how different it is as apposed to Jurassic Park, though I love JP of course.
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009
    BobdH wrote
    By waiting till the end of the film/album by showing off that theme, makes it so much more powerfull.


    Powerful? Not too powerful at all, IMO. The thing is played so stinkin' fast, it's a completely different feel than the theme as presented in the original.
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      CommentAuthorLSH
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009 edited
    William wrote
    BobdH wrote
    By waiting till the end of the film/album by showing off that theme, makes it so much more powerfull.


    Powerful? Not too powerful at all, IMO. The thing is played so stinkin' fast, it's a completely different feel than the theme as presented in the original.


    ... because, as many have already said, it's a different film - with a different plot, different location, different atmosphere, etc. It does make sense.
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009
    LSH wrote
    William wrote
    BobdH wrote
    By waiting till the end of the film/album by showing off that theme, makes it so much more powerfull.


    Powerful? Not too powerful at all, IMO. The thing is played so stinkin' fast, it's a completely different feel than the theme as presented in the original.


    ... because, as many have already said, it's a different film - with a different plot, different location, different atmosphere, etc. It does make sense.


    I see no "sense" behind speeding up the main theme. It just plain doesn't sound as good at the faster tempo.
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009 edited
    keky wrote
    I prefer the lyrical/melodic Williams to the action composer Williams...


    Me too. beer I just can't stomach a lot of Williams action music. dizzy vomit But his melodic side more than makes up for my distaste for his action side.
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      CommentAuthorLSH
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009 edited
    William wrote
    I see no "sense" behind speeding up the main theme. It just plain doesn't sound as good at the faster tempo.


    Still, it's only a reference anyway. That theme is for the island from the first film, which does not feature in The Lost World at all.
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      CommentAuthormoonie
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009
    Well if its another Goldsmith title , too bad John. biggrin
    Goldsmith Rules!!
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009 edited
    LSH wrote
    That theme is for the island from the first film, which does not feature in The Lost World at all.


    I thought that theme was the theme for the whole franchise...? confused I thought that theme embodied the cloned dinosaurs and the wonder behind the prospect of bringing dinosaurs back to life, not necessarily the location in which the film took place.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009 edited
    William wrote
    LSH wrote
    That theme is for the island from the first film, which does not feature in The Lost World at all.


    I thought that theme was the theme for the whole franchise...? confused I thought that theme embodied the cloned dinosaurs and the wonder behind the prospect of bringing dinosaurs back to life, not necessarily the location in which the film took place.


    Okay, so where in the second film (apart from where Williams actually does use it at the end of the cliff scene) do you think it should make a full appearance? I'm honestly curious to know.

    The Lost World is a very different kind of film, it's basically King Kong for T-Rex. I personally don't see how the original theme played throughout would have helped this film in anyway? The film clearly tries to differentiate itself from the first, and Williams being the kind of composer he his stepped up to this brilliantly and produced an excellent 'jungle' score. The film is darker and just didn't need that soaring theme. There are no sweeping shots of helicopters flying through the island's hills, there are no awe-inspiring shots of dinosaurs from afar and there are no cutesy encounters with any dinosaurs. There is NOTHING in that film (apart from the end of course) that requires that wonderful theme to be played.
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      CommentAuthorLSH
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2009 edited
    William wrote
    LSH wrote
    That theme is for the island from the first film, which does not feature in The Lost World at all.


    I thought that theme was the theme for the whole franchise...? confused I thought that theme embodied the cloned dinosaurs and the wonder behind the prospect of bringing dinosaurs back to life, not necessarily the location in which the film took place.


    I'm pretty sure the dinosaurs have their own theme. The slower one which plays when Sam Neill is first introduced to them. confused

    Note that I haven't seen the second film in a while so I don't actually remember when the themes make their appearances.
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
    LSH wrote
    William wrote
    LSH wrote
    That theme is for the island from the first film, which does not feature in The Lost World at all.


    I thought that theme was the theme for the whole franchise...? confused I thought that theme embodied the cloned dinosaurs and the wonder behind the prospect of bringing dinosaurs back to life, not necessarily the location in which the film took place.


    I'm pretty sure the dinosaurs have their own theme. The slower one which plays when Sam Neill is first introduced to them. confused


    And that's the one I've been talking about this entire time... After all, that is the main theme, right? dizzy
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
    There are two parts to the main theme. The slower, reflective part and the epic, more grand statement. Both of which, for the most part, are out of place in The Lost World (as I have explained so diligently above). wink
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009 edited
    Steven wrote
    There are two parts to the main theme. The slower, reflective part and the epic, more grand statement.


    But those are two different themes entirely... dizzy A theme is a motif. Those are two completely different motifs, not the same motif in two different moods.

    EDIT: From the Filmtracks review:

    "In a somewhat irregular (but in this case understandable) move, Williams graces Jurassic Park with two primary themes. Their purposes are obviously different: a bold and layered brass romp, aided by crashing cymbals and rolling timpani, introduce the audience to the island near the outset of the film, and continues to define the adventure associated with the park. Conversely, Williams wrote what is technically "the theme" for the film in the form of a romantic string and choral piece that remains as noble a fantasy theme as any Williams has ever created."
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
    Again, original Jurassic Park theme lovers, where EXACTLY would have been a good place for the slower Jurassic Park theme to show up in The Lost World?

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
    Erik Woods wrote
    Again, original Jurassic Park theme lovers, where EXACTLY would have been a good place for the slower Jurassic Park theme to show up in The Lost World?

    -Erik-


    I'll have to re-watch the film to decide that.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009 edited
    William wrote
    Steven wrote
    There are two parts to the main theme. The slower, reflective part and the epic, more grand statement.


    But those are two different themes entirely... dizzy A theme is a motif. Those are two completely different motifs, not the same motif in two different moods.

    EDIT: From the Filmtracks review:

    "In a somewhat irregular (but in this case understandable) move, Williams graces Jurassic Park with two primary themes. Their purposes are obviously different: a bold and layered brass romp, aided by crashing cymbals and rolling timpani, introduce the audience to the island near the outset of the film, and continues to define the adventure associated with the park. Conversely, Williams wrote what is technically "the theme" for the film in the form of a romantic string and choral piece that remains as noble a fantasy theme as any Williams has ever created."


    They are two different segments to a whole theme, yes (i.e. 'two primary themes'). You could of course argue that the slow theme is the one and only main theme, just because it says so on the CD. But why? There's little point in getting bogged down in technicalities in this case. Let's face it, the grand statement is the main theme too. You hear any part of those two themes and you think "Theme from Jurassic Park!", not "Oh, sub-theme '1' for dinosaurs!" They are, for all intents and purposes, both the main themes - hence two segments to make a whole.

    It was Williams who played each one to Spielberg to see which one he preferred, and I believe it was Spielberg who said "Why not both?" And a theme is not a motif, at least not in film music terms. A motif is a short musical statement (like Horner's infamous Four Note Motif™ consisting of -oddly enough- four notes). A theme is a full musical statement. Sometimes the lines blur between the two in film music, but certainly not in this case.

    The point is they were theme/s created for the first film. I could understand using the theme more predominantly if the sequel was similiar to the first film, but it isn't. In relative terms, it's a very different beast. Not sure how many times I can reword the same thing here!? dizzy

    William wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Again, original Jurassic Park theme lovers, where EXACTLY would have been a good place for the slower Jurassic Park theme to show up in The Lost World?

    -Erik-


    I'll have to re-watch the film to decide that.


    biggrin

    Indeed you will young William, indeed you will.
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      CommentAuthorLSH
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009 edited
    Steven wrote
    I could understand using the theme more predominantly if the sequel was similiar to the first film, but it isn't. In relative terms, it's a very different beast.


    This is the important thing to remember of course. Even though it's been said countless times already.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
    I'm confused as to how something so simple needs so many explanations! dizzy
    •  
      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009 edited
    Steven wrote


    It was Williams who played each one to Spielberg to see which one he preferred, and I believe it was Spielberg who said "Why not both?"


    I pretty sure that's the Raiders March story. wink

    Anyway, both of the Jurassic Park themes in the first film come together to form one suite at the end of the film during the end credits. This is pretty much what is performed during concerts.

    -Erik-
    host and executive producer of THE CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO PODCAST | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorLSH
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
    Steven wrote
    I'm confused as to how something so simple needs so many explanations! dizzy


    Well in William's case it evidently does.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
    Erik Woods wrote
    Steven wrote


    It was Williams who played each one to Spielberg to see which one he preferred, and I believe it was Spielberg who said "Why not both?"


    I pretty sure that's the Raiders March story. wink

    -Erik-


    Oh I'm pretty sure too. But didn't exactly the same thing happen with Jurassic Park?

    Either way, it doesn't take anything away from the point I'm trying to make. dizzy
    •  
      CommentAuthoromaha
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
    Steven wrote
    Erik Woods wrote
    Steven wrote


    It was Williams who played each one to Spielberg to see which one he preferred, and I believe it was Spielberg who said "Why not both?"


    I pretty sure that's the Raiders March story. wink

    -Erik-


    Oh I'm pretty sure too. But didn't exactly the same thing happen with Jurassic Park?

    Either way, it doesn't take anything away from the point I'm trying to make. dizzy


    I second the Raiders, but it could very well be true for Jurassic Park.
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      CommentAuthoromaha
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
    For a director is must be great having a composer where you are given options that involve saying "Why not both?"
    Plus, not having to keep on his back and ask him for putting more into it. AKA Backdraft. Thank God for Ron Howard and his persistence.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
    omaha wrote
    For a director is must be great having a composer where you are given options that involve saying "Why not both?"


    I'd like to meet the director who could choose just one of those themes. (Or not as the case may be.)

    Anyway, back to the William's original point about how the main theme should have been played more often in the sequel.
    It's his opinion.
    It's an odd one, and it's wrong, but it is at least his.


    biggrin wink
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009 edited
    Steven wrote
    You hear any part of those two themes and you think "Theme from Jurassic Park!", not "Oh, sub-theme '1' for dinosaurs!"


    How do you know I don't think that? wink tongue

    Steven wrote
    And a theme is not a motif, at least not in film music terms. A motif is a short musical statement (like Horner's infamous Four Note Motif™ consisting of -oddly enough- four notes). A theme is a full musical statement.


    And who or what says a motif may not be a full musical statement? I've always been taught a motif is a succession of notes which bears importance and is often repeated to give meaning. And even so, those are two different full statements: thus, two themes, any way you look at it.
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      CommentAuthorWilliam
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2009
    Steven wrote
    Anyway, back to the William's original point about how the main theme should have been played more often in the sequel.
    It's his opinion.
    It's an odd one, and it's wrong, but it is at least his.


    Steven, a theme is what connects films in a franchise. It's like saying the Star Wars theme should only be played in the original Star Wars movie, because all the other films take place in different locations in the galaxy! Not even our small little world, but the galaxy! Yeah, right. As we've agreed, one of those themes is a theme for the dinosaurs. And I'm pretty darn sure dinosaurs appear quite prominently in The Lost World. And remember, it's not just The Lost World; it's The Lost World: Jurassic Park. It even bears the name of it's predecessor. I'm not saying the themes should necessarily be present in their original forms of grandeur, but I would have at least loved to hear even occasional outbursts in a minor key, or with an edgier sound representing the danger. But no. We didn't get hardly anything till the end.