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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2008
    I'd take Horner's long cues over Thomas Newman's half-minute tracks anytime.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2008
    Yeah, but at least Newman has a sense of humour when he names his cues. For example, 'Shine My Knob' from The Green Mile.
  1. Oh so it's actually 53 minutes, well that cuts down on the filler tracks. I'm being extremely cautious here because Horner has disappointed me a lot lately...

    BTW my post above was referring to the (very funny I agree) Southall post.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorIcemac0
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2008
    The problem with Newman is he'll create these wonderful themes, and use them maybe twice in the entire movie. Horner is the oppisite and will use 4 or 5 themes dozens of times and evolve them. I wish Newman would use more of them, the Wall-E theme is in the entire move 3 times I believe...
  2. Steven wrote
    Yeah, but at least Newman has a sense of humour when he names his cues. For example, 'Shine My Knob' from The Green Mile.


    I can only speak for me, but I can be impressed with good music not with track names... confused
  3. And for Newman, his many short cues make it almost IMPOSSIBLE to choose a few highlights if you only want listen to 15 or 20 minutes and not the whole 75 min album.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2008
    DreamTheater wrote
    Oh so it's actually 53 minutes, well that cuts down on the filler tracks. I'm being extremely cautious here because Horner has disappointed me a lot lately...

    BTW my post above was referring to the (very funny I agree) Southall post.


    My tracklist was a fake Avatar tracklist. That 53-minute job relates to The Life Before Her Eyes. So far there is no Striped Pajamas tracklist, as far as I know.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2008 edited
    Antineutrino wrote
    Steven wrote
    Yeah, but at least Newman has a sense of humour when he names his cues. For example, 'Shine My Knob' from The Green Mile.


    I can only speak for me, but I can be impressed with good music not with track names... confused


    Did I complain his music is bad? Did I say I won't listen to or buy his music because of the cue names? Did I say it affects my enjoyment of the music? No. I'm simply expressing my dislike for his sometimes pretentious cue names. I hate bullshit in any form. I'm allergic to it.
  4. Good. And I dislike ranting about track names that at least in case of Giacchino's LOST are made by his music editor and have absolute nothing to do with the music.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2008
    Newman's scores would benefit SO much from a more coherent structure when it comes to his pieces. Instead of sounding like scenes and improvisations - no matter how good some might be indeed, they could actually sound like meaningful musical compositions.
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2008 edited
    Steven wrote
    Antineutrino wrote
    Steven wrote
    Yeah, but at least Newman has a sense of humour when he names his cues. For example, 'Shine My Knob' from The Green Mile.


    I can only speak for me, but I can be impressed with good music not with track names... confused


    Did I complain his music is bad? Did I say I won't listen to or buy his music because of the cue names? Did I say it affects my enjoyment of the music? No. I'm simply expressing my dislike for his sometimes pretentious cue names. I hate bullshit in any form. I'm allergic to it.


    Wind yer neck in lad cheesy wink
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2008
    Christodoulides wrote
    Newman's scores would benefit SO much from a more coherent structure when it comes to his pieces. Instead of sounding like scenes and improvisations - no matter how good some might be indeed, they could actually sound like meaningful musical compositions.


    For me, the beauty of Newman's music is that even the short tracks ARE meaningful compositions. They are actual pieces of music. I can understand that there could be a sense of frustration that he can just take an idea, make a little piece out of it and then discard it for something else (I share that frustration at times) but never that the stuff is non-musical. Give me a 90-second Newman vignette over 12 minutes of a 100-piece orchestra and 100-piece choir playing in unison for the latest Bruckheimer film any day.
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2008 edited
    Timmer wrote
    Steven wrote
    Antineutrino wrote
    Steven wrote
    Yeah, but at least Newman has a sense of humour when he names his cues. For example, 'Shine My Knob' from The Green Mile.


    I can only speak for me, but I can be impressed with good music not with track names... confused


    Did I complain his music is bad? Did I say I won't listen to or buy his music because of the cue names? Did I say it affects my enjoyment of the music? No. I'm simply expressing my dislike for his sometimes pretentious cue names. I hate bullshit in any form. I'm allergic to it.


    Wind yer neck in lad cheesy wink


    Here, have a pinch of salt while I take yours. wink
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      CommentAuthormoviescore
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2008
    Southall wrote
    Give me a 90-second Newman vignette over 12 minutes of a 100-piece orchestra and 100-piece choir playing in unison for the latest Bruckheimer film any day.


    Very well put. On the other hand, I have to agree with the ones who feel that there are too many short cues on Thomas Newman's albums... For me, the listening experience often becomes too disjointed and incoherent, even though many of those short cues are brilliant little pieces in their own right.

    mc
  5. On my quest to find out more about "Avatar", I just simply did a Google search and here is what I found:

    6-1-07

    Wanda Bryant (Ph.D. '95) was recently hired by Lightstorm Productions to be Music Consultant to James Horner for James Cameron¹s upcoming film Avatar (release date 2009). She has been tasked with helping to create a music culture for a race of aliens from the ground up: timbres, textures, tonalities, song forms, musical instruments, the works. She states that "it should be a fascinating and interesting challenge."



    Joel Alpers, doing drums on the score.

    Singer Tany Ling:

    In summer 2007, I was in the studio recording vocals for director James Cameron's new feature film "Avatar", due out in 2009, with music by James Horner.




    Well, that's certainly enough for me to get a little excited.
    The views and opinions of Ford A. Thaxton are his own and do not necessarily reflect the ones of ANYONE else.
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      CommentAuthorDemetris
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2008 edited
    Amidst those great and meaningful musical pieces, James, which ARE there indeed in almost every Newman score to date, i think you'll agree that amidst that ton of little bits and pieces of short cues on album, there are several very undeveloped little ones that disrupt the natural musical flow; like half-dead musical ideas that never go anywhere and could be easily elevated into more meaningful compositions if they were parts of larger pieces.

    Newman's approach frequently comes along as draft and lazy, to me, ‘cause at one hand you have those gorgeous pieces and themes only he can deliver in such dreamy and effective way and on the other hand, he allows undeveloped and quirky 30-second keyboard improvisations to disrupt the formers’ impact. It's unfair to the whole...how can one do that?
    Love Maintitles. It's full of Wanders.
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2008
    I don't think I've ever heard a 30-second keyboard improvisation in one of his scores.

    I think I understand your (and Mikael's) point, though it doesn't particularly bother me the way it does you. And far from lazy, I'd imagine it is far more difficult to score films the way he chooses to than the way most others do.
  6. I find once you've seen a film, there's little that can beat a Thomas Newman score. Of his recent scores, it was only when I saw LITTLE CHILDREN and GOOD GERMAN that I truly appreciated how brilliant they. I'd liked them, but I hadn't really *got* them until then. I imagine the same is true with WALL-E. NEMO was ok for me as an album... perhaps the climax didn't feel as climactic as a climax should feel.
    A butterfly thinks therefore I am
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2008
    franz_conrad wrote
    I find once you've seen a film, there's little that can beat a Thomas Newman score.


    Agreed completely. As I've pointed out in the Now Playing thread my first experience with Wall-E was on CD and it was an utter bore. But once I saw the movie the score made complete sense and made the CD a better listen. The album could have used a little tightening but as Michael said your appreciation for Newman's music should begin by hearing the music with the film first.

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!
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      CommentAuthorSteven
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2008 edited
    I think Newman is one of the most talented composers for film that has ever lived. His albums may not be as enjoyable on the whole as a lot of other composer's, but his music within films (the most important thing) are works of genius, or at least something very close to that. And I don't use that word a lot.
    • CommentAuthorTimmer
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2008
    Steven wrote
    I think Newman is one of the most talented composers for film that has ever lived. His albums may not be as enjoyable on the whole as a lot of other composer's, but his music within films (the most important thing) are works of genius, or at least something very close to that. And I don't use that word a lot.


    I'm inclined to agree on the whole but not always, his overbearing music during the finale of Meet Joe Black was vomit inducing.
    On Friday I ate a lot of dust and appeared orange near the end of the day ~ Bregt
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      CommentAuthorSouthall
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2008
    Timmer wrote
    Steven wrote
    I think Newman is one of the most talented composers for film that has ever lived. His albums may not be as enjoyable on the whole as a lot of other composer's, but his music within films (the most important thing) are works of genius, or at least something very close to that. And I don't use that word a lot.


    I'm inclined to agree on the whole but not always, his overbearing music during the finale of Meet Joe Black was vomit inducing.


    One of my all-time-favourite cues! But it does seem a bit much within the film - I can only assume that was down to the director, since it's a long way from what Newman would usually do.
  7. From the singer's myspace blog:


    03 Jul 2007
    ...
    On friday, i, along with 4 other singers, had a recording session with composer James Horner for music for James Cameron's new movie "Avatar" due out in 2009. Our task was to create music for a race of aliens. The session was both structured and laid back. i like someone who has a clear vision and is easy to work with. The most challenging part of the day was learning how to pronounce a made-up alien language and incorporate that with new melodies we'd just heard. Our turnaround was quick and nimble and it resulted in pretty cool music in my opinion.
    ...
    • CommentAuthorWyatt
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2008
    Southall wrote
    Timmer wrote
    Steven wrote
    I think Newman is one of the most talented composers for film that has ever lived. His albums may not be as enjoyable on the whole as a lot of other composer's, but his music within films (the most important thing) are works of genius, or at least something very close to that. And I don't use that word a lot.


    I'm inclined to agree on the whole but not always, his overbearing music during the finale of Meet Joe Black was vomit inducing.


    One of my all-time-favourite cues! But it does seem a bit much within the film - I can only assume that was down to the director, since it's a long way from what Newman would usually do.


    I completely agree with Steven and Timmer about Newman, though I usually have few problems with sitting through an entire CD of his. But you're right Southall, about Meet Joe Black; I was reading an interview with Thomas Newman and he was saying that Martin Brest was very specific with what he wanted out of the music. So really there was no mention of Newman going against his own instincts, but I remember thinking that just from my own interperetation of the subtext of the convorsation.

    I can't seem to find it, but I'll post it if anyone is interested in reading it.
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      CommentAuthorDemonStar
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2008
    Avatar certainly sounds very interesting. Would like to see how Horner manages creating the ethic stuffs... that's Howard Shore's stuff!
  8. Southall wrote
    Timmer wrote
    Steven wrote
    I think Newman is one of the most talented composers for film that has ever lived. His albums may not be as enjoyable on the whole as a lot of other composer's, but his music within films (the most important thing) are works of genius, or at least something very close to that. And I don't use that word a lot.


    I'm inclined to agree on the whole but not always, his overbearing music during the finale of Meet Joe Black was vomit inducing.


    One of my all-time-favourite cues! But it does seem a bit much within the film - I can only assume that was down to the director, since it's a long way from what Newman would usually do.


    Love the film, partly for its emotionally charged score. I've never enjoyed other Newman's works like Meet Joe Black. But I agree it's just not his style, this overbearing type of scoring, he is more minimalist, depending more on textures and moods, than on themes. That is maybe why I don't particularly find his other stuff interesting, except for some (such as The War, or parts of Scent of a Woman), because I need themes in my scores... Wall-E? No I cannot get into it at all.
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
  9. DemonStar wrote
    Avatar certainly sounds very interesting. Would like to see how Horner manages creating the ethic stuffs... that's Howard Shore's stuff!


    Now this one I have high hopes for. But hopes such as Titanic or Aliens could mean disappointment, Horner has definitely lost his touch. My only hope could be he proves me wrong big time... punk
    "considering I've seen an enormous debate here about The Amazing Spider-Man and the ones who love it, and the ones who hate it, I feel myself obliged to say: TASTE DIFFERS, DEAL WITH IT" - Thomas G.
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      CommentAuthorDemonStar
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2008
    He did do a good job with Spiderwick Chronicles recently IMO. So I'm expecting a bit more... wink
    • CommentAuthorWyatt
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2008
    DemonStar wrote
    He did do a good job with Spiderwick Chronicles recently IMO. So I'm expecting a bit more... wink

    I thought that was pretty interesting how he was using cues from Casper in the score to Spiderwick Chronicles.
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      CommentAuthorErik Woods
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2008 edited
    Wyatt wrote
    DemonStar wrote
    He did do a good job with Spiderwick Chronicles recently IMO. So I'm expecting a bit more... wink

    I thought that was pretty interesting how he was using cues from Casper in the score to Spiderwick Chronicles.


    Interesting how? How is THAT interesting? Did Casper make a cameo?

    -Erik-
    host and producer of CINEMATIC SOUND RADIO | www.cinematicsound.net | www.facebook.com/cinematicsound | I HAVE TINNITUS!